snake36bravo
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Posts posted by snake36bravo
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Im a huge fan of the Mi-24A Hind. More so than the later versions. Outside of the after market PE for the cockpit which I already have I've not seen anyone that has 3D printed parts for it in 1/72 and doubt the screenshot of the 1/48 version will be better as Hobby Boss is low end as a kit maker.
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Sourced today -
"Somalia 1994 - Getting ready to board our OGA( Other Government Agency) Huey. Going Hunting for Mohamed Farrah Aidid."
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2 hours ago, Grissom said:
Wow! Thank you Snake36bravo, that's exactly what I was looking for. Hmmm... got to admit, I wasn't expecting such a complex surface texture on the magazine. Now you've got me wondering how to replicate that detail.
Cheers,
Wayne
You're welcome. I should've said the box drum side not versus. Age is working against me these days.
At least for Vietnam era AH-1Gs the box fed the M134 minigun with 7.62 and the round textured drum was for 40mm grenade launcher and they sat side by side one another in the ammunition bay.
Here is a round style drum for nose turret mounted M134. I dont know if this predates the ammunition box or replaced it.
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Here you go
The tray slides out. Here they are loading the ammo for the chunker into the drum
There is a also a box version versus the drum.
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Certainly looks to be international orange on the top of the spar in this close up. TR cover is also different OD shade than the rest of Cindy Ann
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Not to throw a wrench in however I think its going to also come down to timeframe. I've got 1967 slides showing OD shoulder restraints on UH-1B/C models in my personal archive. Lap belts faded to an almost cream color and the lap restraints in my box of spares from the restoration of UH-1M BUC-3 170th AHC, the originals that came off the gunship, are the same.
71st Assault Helicopter Company, 1967
I also have earlier slides 64-67 showing OD shoulder restraints. Here is another slide of an early 'Hover Lover' at WOC school.
I have more of the same OD style restraints but you get my point.
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On 8/20/2022 at 10:05 AM, Wiggi said:
1967
Hi Wigi,
1967 is far too early for the directive to paint the top of one blade white which was late war. You'll want the orange roof top band and tail markings.
All the high visibility markings went out the door pretty quickly in Vietnam starting as early as 1964-65 when UTTHCO was in-country. The roof top bands you are talking about denoted companies and could be international orange, blue, white, red or any combination of those colors or just a solid band or block extending from the rear edge of the top of the pilots door frame to the greenhouse or all the way to the top edge of the windscreen. Rooftop bands faded from use around 1968 early 1969. Two color tail boom markings for different companies replaced the geometric markings from earlier in the war.
Crusaders was the call sign after the switch. Here are some UH-1H Crusaders in flight showing the tail boom and vertical spar markings as well as skid colors. Black was the usual color for skids in Vietnam. As you mentioned you could have any number of colors for the skid steps, 'shoes', and end caps on the skids up to polished aluminum on VIP birds. Note, no roof top band anymore at this time. Eventually in 1970-71 the black anti-glare paint on the nose was switched over to all FS 34087 Olive Drab.
Here are some slides for your 1967 time frame UH-1Ds prior to the switch to the Crusaders nose art and still featuring the sky blue arrowhead with blackhawk head nose art. Note the vertical spar on 'Alerquin' is in green zinc chromate . Image is courtesy of USAAM @Rotorwash
Another of this same 187th slick - Note the Australians tagged the troop cargo door. Again courtesy USAAM & @Rotorwash
Here is another USAAM image - I have not scanned my own 187th images yet as I'm waiting on a better digital scanner which means hundreds of slides sitting in three ring binders waiting for the light of day.
The above is a good shot as it also shows how your crew should look. Two piece Nomex flight suits were in high demand and supply issues were common meaning crews typically flew in jungle fatigues and you'll note the frag vest is still being worn versus the 'chicken plate' air crew body armor that would become standard.
Anyway I have more if you're interested. Dont get discouraged if you dont get an immediate reply from the 187th Assoc. Sometimes you have to try multiple people until you get someone who will respond to you. Just the nature of life at 70+ years old for most of these veterans now.
Have fun on your build!
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Time and money. Nobody rides for free.
It takes time to do all this and sure, there are tons of workstreams to develop lots of AM for these kits and others but it comes down to doing it as a paid comission. That includes to time to research to get it right before rendering.
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4 hours ago, oppenheimerj said:
not yet, by sunday i think it will be done, i will publish photos on fabebook, as you said, this forum is a ghost town, so i will not post more updates here
That's great. Shame as Rodrigo is gone, Rotorwash is on FB and doesnt post here anymore, and the same for others. PM me the link when you're done with it.
All the best
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It's like a ghost town around this forum lately.
Jorge, did you finish Wretched Mildred? I was interested in seeing how you did the weapons stores and rotors.
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Everything about your build is fantastic! The weathering is superb. Especially like how you've highlighted some of the tail boom rivets with silver just as I remember seeing on the real ones when my dad was in the Texas and New Mexico National Guard. The old AH-1Gs, UH-1 gunships, and OH-6s went to them. I've not encountered the new decals so cant comment on them however the ones you did manage to lay down look good.
Compliments on the photography.
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As already stated, I appreciate you adding to how this helicopter in particular is made. IMO how it is built reminds of the Law of the Instrument - "When you're a hammer everythings a nail". The early cockpit is interesting which is why I prefer the Mi-24a to later models that copied tandem cockpit design but seperated the pilot and WSO in thier own cockpits versus a shared canopy, shared cockpit. Hammer and nail approach.
I wasnt clear. My point was that trying to mimic these finer points such as very small indentations along the skin due to spot welding is that you loose a lot of that detail youre trying to reproduce or it just doesnt look right. Reproducing that in 1/72 is neglible and seems to me irrelevant to my Braille scale model I'm going to start on this weekend. I like Zvezda kits and this rivet bickering reminds me of the gripe about Kitty Hawks negative rivets.
Rivet hell
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Really love seeing the scratchbuilding skills here. Nicely done!
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3 hours ago, ya-gabor said:
I had a look at this question. Thing is they are NOT market for riveting. There are actual internal ribs there. What you see is spot welding! The internal ribs are "attached" this way to the outer skin. I am sure the Russian desingers had a very good reason for using bigger or even bigger rivets in other places where skin panels are joined, or where the area is reinforced!
There was no point in using flush riveting on a helicopter. It was much easier to spot weld those internal ribs. Inside the tail boom of the Mi-24 there was plenty of space to do this. FOr example on the Mi-8 inside the boom the ribs are riveted in a traditional way, while on the fuselage structure in many places also spotwelding was used.
Best regards
Gabor
Thanks for continuing to expand on the engineering and design aspects of the Hind. Commonality of parts being a goal of Soviet program it makes sense they just swapped Mi-8 existing features over to the Hind. You would need to understand my day job to see why I view the construction of the Hind as not being very efficient by introducing additional complexity as it has both flush riveting, spot welding now, and the use of rivets of varied size all done by hand versus machining for higher tolerances. Those sorts of things are absolutely irrelevant to modeling. Nor can they be 'reproduced' accurately outside of 'larger planes' forum or is there any reason to really do so.
Harasho
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2 hours ago, oppenheimerj said:
as soon as i can i will, at the moment i am dealing with some health issues with my mother, so i have not doing much this past week
Jorge
Im sorry Jorge. Best wishes for her recovery and for you too.
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This thread needs an upate. How about it oppenheimerj?
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3 minutes ago, ya-gabor said:
A serious difference should be made between civilian and millitary aviation!
Its all out there online and I can affirm with both the CH-47J, OH-58D/F, and AH-64D/E that parts interchangeability is a requirement just as it is in civilian aircraft. No one has to drill new holes in the deck of a Blackhawk for an engine swap or tail boom swap for example. Simply because its a military design does not mean it does not have to meet FAA approval to fly over US cities and towns. There is no hard pass and military aircraft that are de-registered must acquire an FAA N number designator and meet the same airworthy certification process as a regular Cessna 172. The former Army Hueys and Blackhawks I've seen flying civil aviation for logging, firefighting, LE, or SAR are usually stripped of a lot of items to save on weight but they have to be certified still to fly and the FAA does that.
The Huey tail boom is held in place with 4 bolts. I can only imagine what a tail boom swap on a Hind would take with all those mixed rivets.
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FAA flight design approval requires interchangeability of parts as a requirement. "The applicant sends the ACO a data package for review and approval. This data package describes the part design, which includes materials, processes, test specifications, system compatibility, maintenance instructions, and part interchangeability."
US helos and aircraft are manufactured to tight tolerances and have pre-drilled plates versus ones that are slapped on and riveted over possibly already drilled holes in the ribbing which Gabor indicates is done in Russia. Plexiglass is the only non-predrilled item Im aware of that are then matched to holes in the windscreen or canopy then drilled.
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2 hours ago, Tank said:
I am trying to find the old links but the A had the tail rotor on both sides.My comments are based off 3 seperate references on the Hind and use the Warpact/NATO designators.
Warbirds Fotofax "Mi-24 Hind" by Hans-Heiri Stapfer
"Mil Mi-24 Attack Helicopter" by Yefim Gordon and Dmitriy Kommisarov
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Gabor, thanks for the reply. I have noticed both the mushroom rivets and flush rivets on the Mi-24A Hind B. I dont imagine this would be different on the other Hind airframes meaning they are also mixed type. You already indicated there are multiple sizes to the mushroom rivets. Too bad there isnt very much in the way of manufacturing images. I realize this is a modeling forum and in 1/48 its neglible. In 1/72 its just madness. I will say if I still traveled to Moscow I would definitely spend time with a number of Hinds at the musuems there to catalog rivet details and differences though.
After ordering Zvezda 7273, the aftermarket Ace PE, and Eduard UB-32A-24 rockets I only ended up 70,63 Euro lighter in my wallet. That might be because that kit is only produced in 1/72 scale by Zvezda. If they made one in 1/48 I'd definitely buy it even with missing panel lines, rivet detail, and higher cost. The kit is actually both a Mi-24A and Mi-24B. It has the A model cockpit with odd rod antenna mounted on the greenhouse roof but has the Hind B tail rotor mounted on the port side and the 7 horizontal reinforcing strips on the port aft hull. The A did not have these and the tail rotor was mounted on the starboard side. It has B features but does not have the B changes to the nose.
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5 hours ago, Tank said:
Gabor has told us in the past that you can not switch panels between aircraft like one can on US birds because they will not fit.
Thank you Tank. Very labor intensive.
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I got my glasshouse Hind Zvezda kit in and have already ordered everything I'll need from Super-Hobby to get it to where I think it needs to be.
I've been building my photo reference library and have a question regarding the rivets again. That led me back here and to this similiar thread -
Looking closely at your images Gabor, from what I can see these rivets are not machine done but done by hand which would account for rivets that are not in line, are too high or low, or entire panels being marked for riveting but it not even being done. Can you confirm all Hind versions are hand riveted? Rivet detail varies between versions so a one stop rivet decal sheet is just getting it in the ball park depending on what you are building. Is that also true?
Rivet line indicator is marked but not completed circled in yellow.
Non-linear rivet lines, rivets too high, too low, or not evenly spaced.
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Very impressive detailing all around including your pin wash. Drop some clear into those anti-collision lights on the tailboom as ICM does not appear to have modeled them in or it might just be the angle of the photographs.
High marks on this build so far. Really looks like the part for the Centaurs of which Wretched Mildred was one.
Hoping Floyd will produce some aftermarket decals for this kit. Possibilities are endless!
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Yes, the weathering technigue you used does look good. Rather interesting that I've seen this technigue twice in as many weeks. Usually I see it done as a filter once the base coat is laid down.
Are you painting up a particular AH-1G or going with kit decals?
Mi-24A in 48th scale
in Helicopter Modeling
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What is the Hind twist please? I see this now and then but cant understand the reference.