Posts posted by Plankwing
Hello, First time post. I have recently returned to the hobby (or should I say addiction?) after about 20 years and just got a Heller 1/48 RF-84F from ebay. I'd like to upgrade the canopy and front landing gear with the monogram parts. If anyone has these and is willing to part with them please let me know.
Been there, done that a few years ago. Just IMHO, set the Heller on the shelf and get the just-released Tanmodel 2201 RF-84F kit. For an easy-start-returning-to-the-hobby build, leave the cameras and mounts out (but include the bulkheads), put some weight in the nose, and do a "from the box" build. Even with substituting Monogram parts into the Heller, the Tanmodel RF is a silk purse in comparison!
I bought the Attic 48th resin kit. Absolutely awful. Not even close to accurate, gigantic waste of money. FWIW, the only part that is of any use at all is the canopy, which, by the way, I sent to Erik Bultz over three years ago for him to use as a reference on his project. His project has not come to fruition, and, despite several request to him to return my canopy, he has not complied and does not communicate in any way. Caveat emptor.
So, over three years since your last post, and now coming up on two years and four months since my last post/complaint, Erik. Where is the progress? Where is my canopy? I entered into the agreement with you in good faith and I have to conclude you are neither honest or reliable.
Sheesh! Has it been that long?! I guess so!
"What happened?" Lots of other things! And there it is, right on my workbench awaiting my further attention. Too many projects, not enough sense!
Building this F-84F using the Hobby Boss 48th kit as a "basic upgrade" to the kit. I've "fixed" the various bits that needed correction.
Used a couple of round files to reshape the "bulges" on both sides of the fairing between cockpit and tail.
Filed the aft top of the fin to correct the shape.
Replaced the cockpit bits with AMS Resin parts.
Replaced the aft end of the tailpipe with AMS Resin corrected part.
Replaced the poorly done nose gear well and intake spliter parts with Kinetic parts (and including the ball bearing weight).
Covered incorrect refueling door on starboard wing with magic tape (a test to see if that would work, and it has succeeded).
Masked ready for camo paint.
Pru Blue on wing underside, ready for camo on upper surface.
Painting progress, camo added.
Painting progress topside, red added.
Painting progress underside, red added.
Paint is Testors Enamels thinned 1:1 with medium-cure auto lacquer thinner.
Will use landing gear struts and wheels from a Monogram kit.
Will use decals from various DACO sheets.
That's all for now, folks.
Thanks for the photo and info. I have received a couple other photos from other sources, but none yet are closeup enough for me to confirm shape and other details of the smoke generator. However, one photo that showed up (actually, a better photo of one I already had in my stash) revealed some color details that I had gotten wrong. Every little bit helps!
I presume you mean Gliding Bob? I thought I'd already checked with him and he had no info, but maybe my Halfheimers has kicked in.
18th January 2014 --- Added my build of this Belgian F-84F demo as a continuation of this topic.
What is the equipment aft ventral ahead of the drogue chute housing?
This is F-84F Belgian FU-52 in Demo livery 1966. I think it is a smoke generator but cannot find any other info than what is evident in these three photos (combined into one graphic). I am building a model of this using the new Hobby Boss 48th scale kit and would like to add the "whatever this is" to the build. Any information will be greatly appreciated.
Brian, very helpful info on the decals. I don't claim to have researched decals that thoroughly.
Thanks for letting me know my web site was helpful. I had to take the site down because it was generating so much bandwidth that it got to expensive for me to afford. If I can ever get it back online, I will provide the news on this and other forums.
The shape of the intake on the HB kit is correct. The only kit with incorrect intake is the Kinetic/Italeri.
I'm curious why you feel the decals "all wanting" as I've gotten every decal sheet I could find for F-84F including some in 72nd scale for reference (though I build only 48th). Certainly, there are some from years past that are not as complete as some of the newer ones, or like Heller where the data decals are heavy handed. My take on most of the aftermarket decals is that they are quite good. In scale, the minor differences of some decals from "real" are no more detracting to me than some of the kit inaccuracies. As an example of my point, for me the off-put for building the Monogram Streak was more the raised panel lines than the incorrect profile.
As for the colors on the HB sheet, Insignia Blue especially is too light, so probably the unit emblem is also. I don't put 100% reliance on photos though I reference as many as I can to get a feel for colors. One can't even rely on FS online or even in the bottle. I've been stung several times when I relied on the paint mfr label then found the color in the bottle didn't look right on the model, then too late, didn't match what I could find for swatches. Sometimes having AMS detracts from the fun of modeling ...
One of the issues mentioned about HB errors is the incorrectly included refueling door on the starboard wing. Another omission from the kit is neither decal nor paint call out for the radar panel in the intake splitter. Here is a graphic, hopefully self-descriptive, that includes the patterns for a radar panel decal and for a decal to cover the incorrect refueling door. The procedure is to airbrush the appropriate color onto a decal sheet, print the patterns (they are 1:1 sized on the graphic), use a school glue stick or rubber cement to attach them to the decal backing (the graphic is mirror image), trim the decal to the graphic, and apply the decal to the appropriate place. I have decal sheets for ink jet printing; the white decal sheets are much thicker than the clear decal sheets so would be better to use to cover the refueling door. In any case, best not to use decal solvent on that decal as don't want to have the decal settle into the engravings.
Hopefully, ya'll who build the HB will find this graphic useful, feedback requested.
I'd like to hear opinions on the following. Like many others (I suppose) I have several Monogram F-84Fs as well as a couple of Kinetic/Italeri kits, both of which have their own issues. Would it be reasonable to do some kit bashing starting with the Hobby Boss kit and using the best parts of the other two kits e.g. cockpit, landing gear, etc. I have the Quickboost corrected intakes as well. I seems to be a waste to get into a third generation of kits without making use of the others.
Good questions, Brian. And, with the qualification that I first recommend the AMS update set because of the far better accuracy and details, Harold is aware that I've already tested what you visualize. Why would I do such a thing?! Maybe because I have ten of the Monogram and two each of the Kinetic and Italeri Streak kits, plus orts from at least four Monogram Streaks I've used for other bashes. Plus, maybe because I'm a kit basher that was born with the "I wonder what ..." gene! I must confess that, though I've got two Monogram and one Italeri "on the bench" started, that in comparison to the Tamiya and RevMonProMod Thunderjets, and in the face of their defects, I just couldn't intall enough Energizer batteries in my brain to complete them.
So, how did my tests work out? Nose gear bay from either will fit with a bit of fiddling, Monogram is better. Monogram nose gear and wheel are the best replacement other than SAC metal set; Kinetic/Italeri not so good, especially as their nose wheel lash up sux. Cockpit from either will fit with a bit of fiddling, Monogram is better. Main gear struts and wheels from either will fit, just have to file/sand the mounting peg to fit the HB hole, Monogram is better. Why is Monogram better? Monogram parts have crisper details than do the Kinetic/Italeri parts.On another note, has anyone heard of anyone producing a couple of (accurate) decal sheets for this new kit. I've always liked some of the markings from USAFE units.
I have two decal sheets with USAFE livery. I do not know about current availability. They are:
SuperScale 48-804 52-5639 79th FBS England, 1957.
Decal Carpenia 48-15 52-7038 92nd FBS 81st FBW Bentwaters, 1958.
Because of the nature of the sheets and HB kit, they should fit the HB kit as well as the target Monogram kit.
Moreso, having spent a bit of time here and there comparing the five kits, any of the extant decals should be usable on the HB kit with, at most, a bit of edge trimming. That was the case with the Monogram nose markings I had to substitute for the HB decal, the usual decal solvent to settle them onto the compound shape, then slight trimming at the intake.
HB kit is a pain in the a.. it seems. So much corrections needed...
Tim, please consider that this build is a "test" where I'm doing a "what works and what doesn't" build, so I suggest not to take this build as "what has to be done" to make it right. In fact, I've suggested to Harold that he make available two sets. One would be a "minimal" set that includes splitter/nose gear well, weight, and wheel set; that is, the parts needed to enable a reasonable "from the box" build. The other is the current "detail upgrade" set that adds (to the "minimal") all cockpit bits, suck in doors, corrected drop tanks, and tailpipe. In either case, I recommend getting the SAC 'Streak landing gear set (no reason for Harold to duplicate that set). As mentioned, I see no reason to "upgrade" the main gear wells; too much work for very little improvement.
I don't consider the HB to a pain in the 455 at all, especially considering what the alternatives offer. Monogram requires at least as much work, is not accurate in profile, and there are the raised panel lines. Heller has all the Monogram issues plus none of the detail. Fonderie is better than Heller but still short of the HB. And Kinetic/Italeri is ... um ... GACK ... a definitive pain in the 455 (I know because I have one partially completed ...)! Of those, I consider only the Monogram being a reasonable FTB build, but it begs for upgrades as much as does the HB.
And ... giving away my secrets ... I have two more of the kits and have commenced a build with the AMS "full" set and SAC landing gear. I.e., without all the bells and whistles of the build in this thread, so to be a "normal" upgrade build using just HB+AMS+SAC. (I really like the Belgian FU-52 "1966 demo" livery ... nice decals from DACO ...!)
Did the SAC main gear fit into the kit hole ok?
I think that might be all it needs, SAC gear with resin main and nose wheels
The peg on the SAC main gear has to be filed down some to fit into the HB kit pocket. So, yes, the main gear fits with that bit of filing. After doing the deed to replace the HB main gear wells with the modified Aires parts, I conclude the very minor improvement is not worth the effort. Thus, IMHO, there is no need to replace the HB main gear wells, and the SAC gear with resin main and nose wheel/fender will fill the bill for needed HB landing gear upgrade.
UPDATE to my comment above that SAC main gear for F-84F would fit HobbyBoss kit part, note that the peg on the SAC part must be filed to fit the pocket on the kit, see photo below.
More progress on fitting the Aires gun bay to the HB kit.
Used two Kinetic kit hoods to cut and paste to make a hood to fit the HB.
The two parts glued up then primered.
The HB kit has no detail on the cockpit sides, these are from the same Aires detail set as the gun bay.
I wanted to "test" whether resin main gear wells would be a viable upgrade so this is a "trial" using the Aires parts for the Kinetic kit. I had to "thin" the parts quite a bit to enable the wing halves to fit.
The Aires main gear well fitted, left, and the kit part, right.
The SAC main gear fitted to the kit part.
The SAC main gear fitted to the Aires part.
Here endeth the lesson.
I have done a dry fit of the nose gear to both the kit part and the AMS replacement; both fit with a bit of tweaking to the attachment parts of the SAC part. The main gear struts fit the kit part without any modification. The caveat is, no wheels with the SAC set plus no fender for the nose wheel. Harold's set includes the main wheels, I'll defer to Harold about any plans for including a nose wheel and fender.
This is the HobbyBoss fuselage compared to the Cox drawing which was done using plumb-bobs to measure F-84F-45-RE 52-7102.
Note that the length of the nose of the kit compares favorably to the drawing. As the Aires gun bay for the Tamiya Thunderjet is clearly shorter than the gun bay of the HobbyBoss kit, that raises the question (which I have yet to investigate) of whether the gun bay on Thunderjets was approx 1' shorter than the gun by on the Thunderstreaks.
It is my intent to open the gun bay and detail with the Aires set #4096 for the Tamiya Thunderjet. Note that I am aware I might have a thrash on my hands to make that set fit the HobbyBoss fuselage. Nothing tried, nothing gained.
My first order of business for the build was to "fit" the Aires gun bay set for Tamiya F-84G into the HobbyBoss F-84F. The size difference is rather obvious.
Aires gun bay atop AMS Resin intake/nose gear bay.
Aires gun bay atop AMS Resin intake/nose gear bay.
HobbyBoss F-84F nose is longer than the Tamiya F-84G nose.
Still working on fitment. Think anyone will notice the size difference when I pose the gun bay door open? Pondering whether I should scratch build a cover to fit.
Having completed the HobbyBoss F-84F from the box, I am commencing to build my second kit "enhanced" with the new AMS Resin upgrade/correction set that I picked up today from Hairoldcut (photos and info below), and Scale Aircraft Conversions landing gear set #48143. It is my intent to open the gun bay and detail with the Aires set #4096 for the Tamiya Thunderjet. Note that I am aware I might have a thrash on my hands to make that set fit the HobbyBoss fuselage. Nothing tried, nothing gained.
As with all the other F-84F kits in 48th scale, the HobbyBoss tail is not correct for either short or long tail versions. When I kitbashed my Heller/Fonderie RF-84F, I corrected to the Thunderflash long tail using parts from a Monogram F-84F kit; this was done to correct the fin height, the rudder balance weight, and the recessed panel that moves with the flying tail.
HobbyBoss F-84F tail compared to Verhegghen's illustration of short and long tail Thunderstreak versions.
AMS Resin update/correction set for the HobbyBoss F-84F.
Corrected intake splitter and nose gear well. After we chatted about the matter, Hairoldcut has corrected the intake trunks to contour downward (to pass under the cockpit) as on the real Thunderstreaks.
AMS Resin pilot seat compared to HobbyBoss kit assembly.
Hairoldcut has made corrected suck-in doors. Left to right: cutout of kit part; inside view of AMS part snaped into place; AMS part outside view.
The HobbyBoss kit main wheels are not correct; AMS Resin set includes replacements. A corrected nosewheel is in the works.
The kit gunsight is ... minimal ... a replacement is included in the AMS set.
That's all for now, folks.
I have finished my "from the box" build of the HobbyBoss F-84F Thunderstreak kit #81726.
I am not reposting the box art and other graphics posted on another topic; see topic
http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=268825&st=0 for those graphics.
I am not repeating the "first look" Hairoldcut and I did, nor am I mentioning the issues with poor details; see topic
http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=267320&st=0&p=2552971entry2552971 for that review.
I chose the scheme for FS-675 specifically because of the large #9 anti-glare+livery decal. I suspected that decal would be the most challenging for a from-the-box build. This review of the build will hit only the high spots and only photos of the finished build are posted "for tonight." More will come later.
By and large, the kit is free of flash, most parts fit without any need for filing/sanding. The exterior dimensions are closest of any of the 48th scale Thunderstreak kits, details are finely done and mostly accurate, surfaces are glossy with a few minor sink marks.
The decals are thin, perfectly in register, and, with exceptions noted below, settle in perfectly. Note that the decal instructions state "15 seconds" and that is true for the large sheet. The small addendum sheet requires 60 seconds. The instrument panel decal is one piece, but the F-84F instrument panels (as is the kit part) are not one surface. I cut the decal into two parts to match the panel surfaces and they settled in with solvent and look quite realistic.
The photo etch parts are good so far as what is furnished. Bending the speed brake parts to contour requires care to avoid kinks. The spoilers are very well done and fit the wings perfectly.
For paint, I did not do my traditional "gloss black" undercoat, but decided, because of the finely done surfaces, to experiment and go straight to Testors Metalizer. I did three rounds of three-dry/one-wet applications of buffing metalizers. The first was a half-and-half mix of Magnesium+Exhaust; the second was a half-and-half mix of Aluminum Plate+Stainless Steel; the third was straight Aluminum plate. I chose the second mix as an experiment to minimize panel contrast with the final Aluminum. I am pleased with the result and will do that with other natural metal builds in the future.
The decals play nicely if the target surface is prewet with water but not with decal set. I pretested with decals from the other scheme and found that prewetting with decal set results in just that, a set decal. If one wants any possibility of moving a decal, a good prewet with water is in order. Decals #7 and #8 are "wrong side" indicated. Decals #2 and #11 go on after decals #4 and #31. There is no decal for the refueling door; there should be so I used one from a Monogram kit. Decals #3 and #6 (tail) are undersized compared to the instruction illustration. The BUSHMASTER decals #74 looked wrong to me, I substituted the ones from a Monogram kit.
That big decal #9 is a stopper. It simply does not fit, no matter how one might chose to position it (or, in hind sight, even snip slits for overlaps). I gave it my best shot, after 20 minutes of finessing it, it disintegrated. I substituted decal #37 anti-glare from the other scheme. I was able to finesse it with several applications of decal solvent; I left it to settle in and it eventually shrank the wrinkles out. That left me with no decal for the chosen scheme, but, tada, Monogram came to the rescue. Their "silver" kit 5437 includes the same scheme so my only remaining option was to hope their decals would substitute. In fact, after three tries (yes, I used three Monogram decal sheets from my stash), I was able to cut each of them into two pieces overlap carefully to get them to fit. Decal #33 that goes on the spine is also a "gotcha" though I was eventually able to get it to conform with multiple applications of decal solvent.
The nose gear well and the intake splitter do not fit from-the-box. Added to the fact that they are not correct for details, they do not fit into the "notches" molded into the fuselage halves nor do they correctly "meld" as they are intended. I spent considerable time filing and sanding both parts as well as cutting away parts of the positioning "notches"; when this is done so they "settle in" they won't stay in position for buttoning up the fuselage halves. After multiple dry fits, I had to give in and cement them to the port fuselage half but could then never get the fuselage halves to align properly; either the intake was offset or the dorsal and ventral seams didn't line up. As the intake would be harder to correct, I chose to line it up then deal with filing/sanding the misaligned seams into submission.
Note that there is no nose weight with the kit. Without nose weight, this is a tail sitter. The Genius who did this build duly noted the absence of a nose weight so went to the parts stash for a Tamiya Thunderjet kit weight. The Genius who did this build proceeded to button up the fuselage while the nose weight sat there in silence, never once objecting be being left out. As the Fortune-Cookie-for-Recovering-from-Errors-and-Omissions was at hand, and that I had not cemented the pilot seat into place, I deftly handled the Dremel to hog out the floor of the cockpit and super-glued some lead weights into the resulting void. I won't go into detail about the next foul-up, but I will admit I had to re-mask and repaint the forward fuselage. The carpet monster ate one of the sway braces so I substituted sway brace parts from my parts box.
As this was a review for a "from-the-box" build, I deliberately chose to stick, insofar as possible, strictly with kit items for the build. The one big decal plus the nose gear well/intake splitter sessions were by far the most annoying procedures for this build. I suggest, if anyone is tempted to do a "from-the-box" build of this kit, at the very least replace the nose gear well/intake splitter with an aftermarket part. And, do not be tempted to use the anti-glare decals; paint the panels and skip the decals! Also, the decals have a splotchy coating; I know not what it is, but it is most noticeable on the anti-glare decals.
I am very pleased with the way most of the kit went together without hassle or drama, pretty much what one hopes for in contemporary kits. But, would I build this "from-the-box" again? Not even. The exterior is a great starting point, but it begs for details. Hairoldcut is well along on putting together an upgrade set that will include: Nosegear well/intake splitter; full cockpit with choice of early/late/Euro pilot seats; ejector (tailpipe); corrected nose and main wheels; and possibly main gear wells. I would use Scale Aircraft Conversions 48143 landing gear set.
Here endeth the lesson.
RenShape I used for the canopy was 5030.
I also used 5030 plus sheet stock to scratch build this hood for my 1951 Chev Corsa V12 kitbash. The link to that in-progress build:
I used 5045 to make the bucks for scratch-building the early F-84 Thunderjet pilot seat. Hairoldcut used my master to cast some for me.
Seat in cockpit of F-84C ORANG backdated using Tamiya plus AMS Resin parts.
F-84F Squadron/Encore 48006
in General Discussion
I bought two of the "new" Squadron/Encore F-84F reprise of the HobbyBoss F-84F 48th scale kit. I bought them because they "enhanced" the kit with some resin additions and a new decal sheet. The box are showed the Belgian F-84F air demo "052" in the scheme for years 1964-1964. I have already built the HB kit "Straight from the Box" for my build review that appeared in SAMI March 2014. Though the HB kit is the best available F-84F kit in 48th scale, that is a "just barely" true statement as the ancient Monogram kit is behind only because of raised detail and a "too slim" aft fuselage. The Kinetic, and Italeri reprise thereof, are simply awful; the Heller, and Fonderie reprise thereof, are barely better than toys.
Subsequently to that FTB build, I built the Belgian air demo "052" in the scheme for years 1965-1966 with the HB kit, AMS Resin HB set, my own PE set for the spoilers and wing fences, and scratch built the smoke generator. Thus I elected to buy the SE reprise HB for the Belgian "O52" air demo decals to build as a companion to my other "052" build.
So, what is new other than the resin bang seat and the decals? HB deja vue all over again; they made no corrections to the many errors in that kit. It would have been easy enough to replace the worst part of that kit, the intake/nose gear well with a resin replacement. They already did the replacement bang seat, why not replace the even worse part? And, the incorrect air refueling door on the starboard wing and the panel lines above the wings on the fuselage sides that were only present on the Thunderflash are engraved on the kit. That means they are raised on the mold. How hard could it have been to just remove those and polish them out? Doing just those three corrections could have made a vast improvement to this kit. So, money and lazy strike again. But wait, there's more.
Decals. In short, there are three schemes provided on the decal sheet. Two of them appear to be fine, but not really relevant to why I bought the kits, the Belgian air demo scheme. I have a photo of "052" at an air demo in Wetherfield, 1964; the wing and tail bands are red and white. The box art shows the wing and tail bands in red and white. The Squadron Signal No 1225 back cover has the same art as the box art, albeit with one change to a detail under the aft canopy; the wing and tail bands are red and white. So, I inspect the decals for that scheme ... uh ... they are not red! They are ORANGE! What is with that?! As the guys on Top Gear often said, "How hard can it be?"
I complained to Squadron, "Please replace the decals or provide an RMA to return the kits for a refund." They admitted "the defective kits" and sent an RMA with, "We have no plans to replace the decals." Why is it so many of these kit vendors can't seem to understand that it doesn't cost any more to do it right the first time? In fact, it costs more to do it wrong then have to deal with RMAs and refunds and postage ...
So, if you wanted to do a model of the Belgian "052" in that scheme, the decals are wrong! Caveat emptor.