DutyCat Posted November 19, 2006 Author Share Posted November 19, 2006 No, not a world beater. It would probably struggle against several advanced aerodynamic types now entering service (Eurofighter, late SU-series, Gripen, Rafale, J-10), but it probably is the overall best plane we have after the F-22 and JSF. I was just tired of hearing the SH get slammed by a bunch of people for supposedly being an inferior aircraft to the F-14 ever since it was slated to replace the Tomcat. Every little development glitch was ceased upon as a reason to dis the plane. Its nice to see that its teething problems have mostly been worked out and it is entering service as capable platform. Link to post Share on other sites
Quailane Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 (edited) Well, I'm gonna be honest with you, the Super Hornet demo could use a bit more flying near the crowd. The take off is pretty cool, it does a couple of passes (one that's close to breaking the sound barrier). It'll do some loops, and the square loop too. But IMO the coolest thing it does, I think called the "loaded roll", it's just plan weird when you see it. The demo is very loud, louder than the F-14/15/16 demos I have seen. I found a few videos from Youtube on the demo, these can probably give you a good idea on what the demo is like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1WEeGmV-HI HTH :blink: Daniel Dude, you have not seen a good superhornet demo! I went to the Dover Air Show at Dover AFB, DE. The superhornet demonstration included passes over the crowd and going supersonic. I have some awesome pictures showing the vapor cloud around one. The demonstration was everything anybody could want besides mock dogfighting between the two! I'll have to upload some pics when I get home this week. Edited November 19, 2006 by Quailane Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 88 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Dude, you have not seen a good superhornet demo! I went to the Dover Air Show at Dover AFB, DE. The superhornet demonstration included passes over the crowd and going supersonic. I have some awesome pictures showing the vapor cloud around one. The demonstration was everything anybody could want besides mock dogfighting between the two! I'll have to upload some pics when I get home this week. The demo at Miramar was very short on Friday, I'm sure Lemoore or Oceana offer better Super Hornet demos than the one I saw at Miramar this year. BTW Super Hornet's do not go supersonic at airshows. :blink: Please post your pics from the show! Daniel Link to post Share on other sites
Rampage55 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I was fortunate enough to see the Super Hornet Demo at the Salinas International Airshow in Calif. last fall we also had an F-15C, A-10, the Heritage flight (F-15C & P-51D), and the Blue Angles. Quite a show. Here are a couple pics of the SH Demo. I thought It was a very impressive demo put on by VA-122. Every bit as good as the F-15 Demo in my humble opinion. The crowd realy got a kick out of this pass. Down and Dirty slow flight. Thanks, Mark Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 (edited) I've been impressed with the Rhino demo's I've seen, for the simple reason it shows off the best performance aspect of the Rhino - as in, not much high speed stuff but they show the high-alpha manueverability and acceleration well. In a similar way, in the F-16 demo, the maneuvers are fast, fast and faster. So for me, I think that the show is very well designed. If you want "a feeling of power", nothing beats the B-1 demo. Years ago, at the Pensacola show, I watched a young lad of 5 or 6 years point at the B-1 taking off, cheer, smile.... then the pressure waves from the afterburners hit him....then a frown, look of general distress, followed by him puking up the ice cream and cotton candy consumed during the day. Any plane that makes little kids puke is COOL. Spongebob Edited November 20, 2006 by Spongebob Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan_Lotton Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 No, not a world beater. It would probably struggle against several advanced aerodynamic types now entering service (Eurofighter, late SU-series, Gripen, Rafale, J-10), but it probably is the overall best plane we have after the F-22 and JSF. I was just tired of hearing the SH get slammed by a bunch of people for supposedly being an inferior aircraft to the F-14 ever since it was slated to replace the Tomcat. Every little development glitch was ceased upon as a reason to dis the plane. Its nice to see that its teething problems have mostly been worked out and it is entering service as capable platform. I really cant believe I'm going to say this, so yeah... I'd actually rate the latest block SH's (AESA etc) along with future upgrades and combining that with the C-5 and D Amraam variants, will actually give a superior, multimission airframe and combat ability than at least half of those on your list of "superior" airframes and aircraft. Having seen the SH demo at the Oregon 2006 Airshow in Portland, I'd say it is very capable. Once the engine redesign is done and in-place, it'll be a whole 'nother aircraft. Link to post Share on other sites
VFA-103guy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Any plane that makes little kids puke is COOL.Spongebob Hope you don't mind Sponge but I added that to my email signature. Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Yeah, we should've painted that on the side of some of our birds.... Link to post Share on other sites
Platypus Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 (edited) Any plane that makes little kids puke is COOL. Spongebob :lol: Reminds me of a F-14 tribute video on youtube. One kid excited by the show goes in tears after a F-14 low level high speed flying. :D Edited November 20, 2006 by Platypus Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 I really cant believe I'm going to say this, so yeah...I'd actually rate the latest block SH's (AESA etc) along with future upgrades and combining that with the C-5 and D Amraam variants, will actually give a superior, multimission airframe and combat ability than at least half of those on your list of "superior" airframes and aircraft. Having seen the SH demo at the Oregon 2006 Airshow in Portland, I'd say it is very capable. Once the engine redesign is done and in-place, it'll be a whole 'nother aircraft. Well, I am not so much of a fighter community insider as you. I know a bit about aerodynamics, so I was focusing my comments about SH basic airframe capabilities in relation the newer, lighter, canard configured designs. But as you have pointed out, weapons/sensor/software integration and pilot interface are as much of the equation as anything, and the SH is probably a generation ahead of the legacy Hornet in this regard. I have no idea what ASEA means, aside from assuming it is an avionics upgrade. What did intrigue me about your post was your reference to an engine upgrade. I had not heard about that. As you said, that can make a huge difference. Those 'hi-alpha' manuevers bleed a lot of energy. The quicker the SH can regain it, the better! Link to post Share on other sites
Ironhead Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Well, I guess it depends on what you are looking for. As a disclaimer, as I said at the beginning of the post, I haven't actually SEEN a SH demo, but I did look at that video link up there at the beginning of the thread. Going on that and the many actual demos I have seen of the F-14/15/18/18, the SH seems to outclass them all in pure manuevering ability. Energy bleed is a different story and obviously, the Eagle and Viper have more to work with there. But I don't think either of them could turn inside even a legacy Hornet, much less a SH right after the initial merge when energy states are optimum. And the Tomcat? C'mon...as much as I love that plane, the A isn't even in the same league as a SH and the even though the F110 equipped model can sustain its maneuver energy, so far as I can tell it can't turn any tighter than an A. Of course, I am not in a position to know anything for sure. I'd like to see if manufacturer test data on degrees per second turn rate for these birds would bear out my impressions.After hearing the SH get dogged out for the past five years by many Tomcat lovers, it is nice to see the it perform well and finally get some respect. It seems that the SH is not such a POS after all. I don't want to veer off topic too much but.. That depends where in the envelope a Hornet or a SH can out turn the aforementioned planes above. You don't know what speeds they are performing those maneuvers. You make it sound like the Hornet/SH are invincible, they aren't. Their nose rates are great at SLOW speeds. The instantaneous turns are awesome if you want to one circle and anchor but they can be beaten. Load the operational load out and those little wings suffer a bit more. Have you compared turn performance data between the planes? BTW, there is more to BFM than just turning. Link to post Share on other sites
Platypus Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Shall we bring out the pop-corn ? I don't remember whose turn it is. Drinks are on me IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 That depends where in the envelope a Hornet or a SH can out turn the aforementioned planes above. You don't know what speeds they are performing those maneuvers. You make it sound like the Hornet/SH are invincible, they aren't. Their nose rates are great at SLOW speeds. The instantaneous turns are awesome if you want to one circle and anchor but they can be beaten. Load the operational load out and those little wings suffer a bit more. Have you compared turn performance data between the planes? BTW, there is more to BFM than just turning. Yeah, I think we kinda covered most of these points in various posts throughout the thread. You are correct. I realize every aircraft is a sum of its design strengths and weaknesses, performance emphasis, etc. The whole reason I brought up this topic is because the SH seems to finally be getting a little respect. All I have heard for several years is negativity about canted out weapons pylons, insufficient roll rate, insufficient range, underpowered, coordinating the outer air battle from the bridge, Mr 'Right Now,'or just "the SuperHornet sucks. Tomcats rule," etc. Now that it is in servce, it seems to be a better plane than many expected. No, it is not an NATF, but it seems better than most other fighters out there. Link to post Share on other sites
Jonathan_Lotton Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Well, I am not so much of a fighter community insider as you. I know a bit about aerodynamics, so I was focusing my comments about SH basic airframe capabilities in relation the newer, lighter, canard configured designs. But as you have pointed out, weapons/sensor/software integration and pilot interface are as much of the equation as anything, and the SH is probably a generation ahead of the legacy Hornet in this regard. I have no idea what ASEA means, aside from assuming it is an avionics upgrade. What did intrigue me about your post was your reference to an engine upgrade. I had not heard about that. As you said, that can make a huge difference. Those 'hi-alpha' manuevers bleed a lot of energy. The quicker the SH can regain it, the better! Oh man, I'm sorry if I came off as punchy! I'm just used to European/SU fanboy's cheering on, especially the SU, as being a world beater than can take care of everything, one handed, while brewing coffee and sending email. Aerodynamically it IS not as advanced as some of the later European fighters and such, it's based off of a design that is older. You are right about that. I came from the standpoint that the others are basically older "in service" and have a smaller degree of "upgrade" available. I'm not knocking them, but as someone who used to bash SH's, I know what the arguments are. AESA btw means Active Electronically Scanned Array. Basically it's a "flat panel" radar as seen on the MiG-31 Foxhound, F-22, SU-27SM, F-15C with the AN/APG 63 V2 and V3's and on Aegis cruisers. Basically, it electronically manipulated the radar beam to provide near instantanious coverage, allowing for better target track, range and being able to engage multiple targets and guide multiple missiles to independant targets as well. Earlier Super Hornets did not have this, but more current ones do. I'm not nearly the "fighter insider" as you think, talk to Darren Roberts, Skull_Leader, VF_103Guy, Waco, Murph and others and you'll see true experts. About the engine redesign, I heard about it here, it's apparently going to provide reduced man-time work and increase thrust by about 25%. Again, so sorry if I came off as a little punchy or such! it wasnt intentional. Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 You did not come off as punchy at all. I was complimenting you while explaining my relative ignorance. I kinda know the birds are and what they can basically do, but I am not up on the various upgrades unless they are significant and 'the word gets on the street." An engine upgrade is a big deal. 25%? Wow. Link to post Share on other sites
Quailane Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 (edited) The demo at Miramar was very short on Friday, I'm sure Lemoore or Oceana offer better Super Hornet demos than the one I saw at Miramar this year. BTW Super Hornet's do not go supersonic at airshows. ;) Please post your pics from the show!Daniel Here are a few pics of the hornet I got. Sorry they are so crappy, but I think the polarizing lens reduced the quality and anyway they haven't been modified at all except to turn them into jpegs. Edited November 23, 2006 by Quailane Link to post Share on other sites
Skull Leader Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Well, the addition of a ground loop has certainly made the demo more interesting! "Not only does it have more than twice the horsepower of the entire Indianapolis 500 starting lineup (I swear every demo team uses this stupid line), it can also out-tailside a ferrari!" Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted November 23, 2006 Share Posted November 23, 2006 Nice gloves Mr WSO. Link to post Share on other sites
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