Darkclaw Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Being a fanatic of the Ace Combat series for the playstation 2 I have come across many airplanes in the entire series I have played and as I was surfing for pictures of a B-52 on the tarmac being loaded up I found a picture of this airplane which I recognized from Ace Combat Zero. This plane is the YF-23 Black Widow... My question is how long has this plane been used, is it still used somewhere? I thought the Black Widow was just a random plane that the guys that made Ace Combat made up. Shows me wrong lol Any info on this plane would be awesome :D Link to post Share on other sites
General Grievous Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 What do you have against Google? Link to post Share on other sites
Darkclaw Posted November 18, 2006 Author Share Posted November 18, 2006 (edited) What do you have against Google? Everything...and for some reason google doesn't want to upload on my comp actually I like google but it won't upload onto my page, and Google Earth Rocks Edited November 18, 2006 by Darkclaw Link to post Share on other sites
General Grievous Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YF-23_Black_Widow_II Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 The YF-23 lost to the YF-22 in the ARF Competition in the early 90s ... >>>More Pictures<<< Gregg Link to post Share on other sites
Rapier01 Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Err... ATF Advanced Tactical Fighter competition. Link to post Share on other sites
Rapier01 Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 (not knockin' the plane...just the acquisition process) Blame the politicians for that one. It was fielded 10 years fter it was originally supposed to be operational. Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 And twenty years later...*SNAP* a new frontline fighter.(not knockin' the plane...just the acquisition process) Couldn't agree more. Judging from this one, I'd say the Raptor's replacement should be entering the prototype phase by 2015, with FSD flight testing starting in 2020, and the first squadron operational by no later than 2047. The test planes may well outlive their pilots' flying careers.... Link to post Share on other sites
tomcatter727 Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 (edited) Couldn't agree more. Judging from this one, I'd say the Raptor's replacement should be entering the prototype phase by 2015, with FSD flight testing starting in 2020, and the first squadron operational by no later than 2047. The test planes may well outlive their pilots' flying careers.... If its almost 2007 right now that would only be 8 or 9 years in the future. They'd have to get started pretty soon and I dont think the pentagon will start throwing money for R&D to replace a fighter that just entered service, it numbers far from what was planned. Blame the politicians for that one. It was fielded 10 years fter it was originally supposed to be operational. Theres one thing I really dont understand. Why did it take so long to get the F22 in service? did politicians do it for budget reasons or what? Edited November 18, 2006 by tomcatter727 Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 I tell ya, as much as I like the Raptor, from what I have read the YF-23 seems like it might have been the better plane in some ways. It certainly looks more futuristic. That may have actually scared the Air Force off a little bit. There was some mention of concern about cost overuns. Lockheed has a pretty strong track record when it comes to building advanced technology aircraft, and they had just recently built the F-117. There may have also been some 'share the wealth for the good of the industrial base' politics going on. Northrop was ramping up the B-2 program about that time. This is all speculation, of course. It is also interesting to note that work on the Raptor program clearly put Lockheed in a postion to win the JSF contract. Link to post Share on other sites
hatchet Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Lockheed has a pretty strong track record when it comes to building advanced technology aircraft, and they had just recently built the F-117Also, IIRC, they completed the F-117 contract ahead of time and below budget - heck of an incentive.:( Link to post Share on other sites
BAM'n'IVM Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 (edited) Theres one thing I really dont understand. Why did it take so long to get the F22 in service? did politicians do it for budget reasons or what? It had a lot to deal with politicians wanting to look like they're "saving money" on the program, complaining about how expensive each aircraft supposedly is (and factoring in development costs - money that has already been spent - in that per-unit cost) and cutting the funding to say "Look at me! I'm saving us money!" while they're actually driving the price of each aircraft up and drawing the production schedule out ridiculously. So, yeah, they did it for budget reasons but in the process busted the budget with their tactics. It's what happens when every weapon system has to be micromanaged by politicians instead of doing procurement the way it was during the cold war. BTW - 'Claw: Any aircraft with a "Y" as the first character of its designation is always a prototype, often in a competition with other prototypes. The F-22 was the YF-22 during the flyoff against the YF-23. When an aircraft goes into production for actual use, the "Y" prefix is dropped. Edited November 19, 2006 by BAM'n'IVM Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 It had a lot to deal with politicians wanting to look like they're "saving money" on the program, complaining about how expensive each aircraft supposedly is (and factoring in development costs - money that has already been spent - in that per-unit cost) and cutting the funding to say "Look at me! I'm saving us money!" while they're actually driving the price of each aircraft up and drawing the production schedule out ridiculously. So, yeah, they did it for budget reasons but in the process busted the budget with their tactics. It's what happens when every weapon system has to be micromanaged by politicians instead of doing procurement the way it was during the cold war. It'll happen with the F-35 too. Didn't that happen with the B-2 as well? Link to post Share on other sites
kenlilly106 Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 From what I've read, what hurt the B-2 program was that Northrup was either told or promised they were getting the F-117 radar cross section (RCS) data and maybe some of the research that Lockheed had done regarding RCS. This was before the bids were placed, so Northrup didn't factor in the cost of doing all the development work again, when in reality they had to AFTER the contract was awarded, putting them behind schedule and over budget. The old adage/joke when it comes to military aircraft is that 75% +/- of the cost of the program is to get the first plane in the air and most of the bugs worked out, the rest of the aircraft for that order cost the final 25% or so. Ken Link to post Share on other sites
Aggressor Supporter Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Being a fanatic of the Ace Combat series for the playstation 2 I have come across many airplanes in the entire series I have played and as I was surfing for pictures of a B-52 on the tarmac being loaded up I found a picture of this airplane which I recognized from Ace Combat Zero.This plane is the YF-23 Black Widow... My question is how long has this plane been used, is it still used somewhere? I thought the Black Widow was just a random plane that the guys that made Ace Combat made up. Shows me wrong lol Any info on this plane would be awesome From reading your post, I am surprised that it seems you've never heard of or seen the YF-23 before at all before playing the Ace Combat series. Link to post Share on other sites
Av8fan Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Too bad no one does this plane in 1/48th. So all thats available is 1/72. Anyone one know who makes the best kit? Neat looking plane with a lot of "what if" paint jobs possible. I am wondering how she would look in the F2 colours..hmm. Link to post Share on other sites
David Walker Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Too bad no one does this plane in 1/48th. So all thats available is 1/72. Anyone one know who makes the best kit? If you want to go a little bigger and you're not in a hurry to see it hit the market, you may be interested in this thread: http://s102164210.onlinehome.us/forums/ind...34&hl=YF-23 Link to post Share on other sites
Zactoman Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Did someone say YF-23? :blink: Thanks for the plug David Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Theres one thing I really dont understand. Why did it take so long to get the F22 in service? did politicians do it for budget reasons or what? Its development was chronically underfunded in the Clinton administration, and it has been a bit of a political football under the current administration. Regards, Murph Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Pretty sweet, Zact! Link to post Share on other sites
Av8fan Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 (edited) Very nice indeed. Time to start a fund lol. I have your page bookmarked. I was thinking that would look great painted up like one of thoise Macross models..overall white or grey with the skull and crossed bones. Edited November 20, 2006 by Av8fan Link to post Share on other sites
BAM'n'IVM Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Very nice indeed.Time to start a fund lol. I have your page bookmarked. I was thinking that would look great painted up like one of thoise Macross models..overall white or grey with the skull and crossed bones. Navy markings? No, no, no...paint it up like the wing commander's bird for the 1st Fighter Wing, with the eagle's head on the insides of the stabs and the blue/yellow/red squadron stripes at the top edges. Better yet...buy four of 'em (Zacto, I expect a commission on the sale if he does...) and paint 'em up in F-23 Thunderbirds markings. Or Skyblazers markings...that'd be sweet... Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Navy markings? No, no, no...paint it up like the wing commander's bird for the 1st Fighter Wing, with the eagle's head on the insides of the stabs and the blue/yellow/red squadron stripes at the top edges. Actually, Navy markings would be kinda cool. I think it likely that if the Navy had remained in the ATF program instead of bailing to try and build the A-12 (lets not even go there!), they would have evaluated the YF-23 as a more suitable design for carrier operations than the YF-22 and pushed for its selection. It seems the YF-23 would have a more forward center of lift, and that, combined with a shorter nose, would have made it easier to bring aboard the boat. The F-22 is VERY traditional land based Air Force looking. Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I agree Navy markings would look cool, but IIRC, the production F-23 would have had a slightly longer fuselage than the YF-23 to accommodate a larger weapons bay. Looking at the design differences between the YF-22 vs. F-22 (due in part to changing requirements), the X-32 demo aircraft vs. Boeing's proposed design and the X-35 vs. F-35, the final design of the production F-23 is probably speculative at best (unless drawings of a production version have been released and I just haven't seen them). It's easy to predict where the wing fold would been but would the angle of the tail surfaces have presented a parking/storage problem? Link to post Share on other sites
Chappie Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 The F-22 has turned out to be a fantastic fighter, but back in the 90s I was hoping the YF-23 would win. I just loved the look of the jet. Collect-Aire does make a 1/48th YF-23. All resin. 200 plus smackers though. Chappie Link to post Share on other sites
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