Bennygmanuk Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 (edited) Got there early for this one and I thought it was very good. Don't know how long it was scheduled for, but the guy who was doing the following decal demo got there about 3:45 and gave up around 4:15 as Frank's was still going strong! I wandered off at about 4:30 and the Q&A session was still going. One thing I did learn is that I'm still not thinning my paint enough. It was good to see exactly what it should look like. Having now understood a bit more about what goes on inside the brush I've got some more experimenting to do. Very useful hour and a bit I thought. Steve. Edited November 19, 2006 by Bennygmanuk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Julien (UK) Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 Did not see this one myself, but picked up some new tips in conversation, these alone make it worthwhile going! Julien Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dogsbodyx Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Yes, I stuck it out to the bitter end on both days.....my feet were aching like mad but it was all well worth it. A brief summary (as best I can recall anyway): White spirit from the hardware shop is crap compared with the stuff from a motor paint supplier at about 4 times the price - use to thin enamels; Lacquer = Cellulose in Britain; Cellulose thinners to clean an airbrush and to mix with lacquers = Alclad type stuff (except Alclad does not need thinning); Isoproponol (medical alcohol) to thin acrylics. Obtainable from a hardware shop - maybe - as it can be used as a chemical trigger for a bomb so may be hard to get in UK. Never spray cellulose based paint directly onto plastic as it MAY eat into the plastic. Use an undercoat such as acrylic. Make your undercoat the same colour as your main top-coat; Use Johnsons Klear... a lot. Spray close to the model at 8psi, never get above 15psi..... Low tack post-it notes are good maskers for spraying individual panels. Get a spray booth...NOW....a kitchen extractor fans does not have sealed motors which means the fumes could explode if one is used instead of a proper spray booth like graphic air produce. Are your wife & childrens lives worth more than £250.... (a rather stark statement I thought but it rammed the point home). Always dismante an airbrush to clean after use. Simply spraing thinner etc through it is not sufficient. Remove the needle out towards the front of the brush for cleaning & reinsert from the rear.... Oh, and apparently the bloody bureaucrats at the EU in Brussels are banning enamels in Toys in 2008 which means enamel based paint is about to die in Europe......... Hopefully sense will prevail and models may not be classed as toys and so escape (yeah, fat chance). Oh Oh and apparently badger 150's (and all else Badger) are crap compared to Iwata... which is a pain as I recently bought two..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bennygmanuk Posted November 21, 2006 Author Share Posted November 21, 2006 That sounds like a pretty good summary of what I understood too. I think Isopropyl was specifically recommended for Tamiya acrylics. That makes sense as they are the only ones where I've not had much success with water. Despite what was said about Halfords not selling cellulose thinners anymore, I picked up a couple of cans from them on Sunday - last two though so could have been end of line? Klear is probably the most all-round useful subsatnce in the world I noticed a distinct anti-Badger slant too. I must say I love my Iwata, but it's the only brush I've ever had, bought as a consequence of recommendations here on ARC. If I was a cynic I'd say 'product placement' , but I'm not so I guess it was based on personal experience - can't say fairer than that. You're a braver man than me to attend both, especially if Sunday was another 1.5 hours - I salute you, Sir. Steve. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil_J Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 (edited) The audience (was more like a multitude!) was too big to see what was going on when I got there - spent five mins peeping over heads but didn't hang around. Sounds like it was a good demo - dunno of a better place to hold it at Telford tho. I've not tried to get hold of Isopropyl yet - but don't know of any sources either. Rather worried about the enamel news - Acrylic will take some getting used to I think! Edited November 21, 2006 by Phil_J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yeehah1 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Where on earth do you buy Isopropyl Alcohol from anyway ? the bint in Superdrug gave me a right funny look when I asked her if they had any... 21-11-06 I usually get it from a chemists or pharmacy in bottles of 500ml. You can get tiny bottle in those video tape and cd-rom cleaning kits...video stores like Xtra-vision or HMV usually sell replacement bottles for these. Keep the bottle for refilling from the larger 500ml bottle. Loved the look of the new Iwata compressor (that was the Silver Jet, wasn't it?) It's tiny and seems quiet) Liam Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falkirk1298 Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Where on earth do you buy Isopropyl Alcohol from anyway ? the bint in Superdrug gave me a right funny look when I asked her if they had any... You can buy it from Maplins, where they keep aerosol lubricants and such like. Comes in (I think) 1 litre cans for about a tenner. John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nev Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Where on earth do you buy Isopropyl Alcohol from anyway ? the bint in Superdrug gave me a right funny look when I asked her if they had any... You could get a job in a lab and access to buckets of useful such chemicals... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pinky coffeeboat Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 In the past I have used Surgical Spirits (Isopropyl alcohol by a different name? - haven't got a bottle handy) to thin acrylic paints (Tamiya mainly) and to clean brushes used for acrylics. With thinning, for me a good paint to thinner ratio works best - I did it by mistake the other way round (more surgical spirits than paint) and the paint remained tacky for days on end and seemed to eat into the plastic a bit. I bought a bottle of the stuff from Boots (behind the counter, had to ask for it) and the most recent bottle if memory serves me right I bought from Tescos (again behind the counter). Not sure if any of this helps; it's been a while since I've done any modelling. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TedTaylor Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 (edited) name='Dogsbodyx' date='Nov 20 2006, 09:06 PM' post='904517'] White spirit from the hardware shop is crap compared with the stuff from a motor paint supplier at about 4 times the price - use to thin enamels; Absolute rubbish, White spirit to BS245 standard is excellent for thinning enamels but not realy strong enough for cleaning. I have used it for the last thirty years and you may have seen some of my work. Lacquer = Cellulose in Britain; Cellulose thinners to clean an airbrush and to mix with lacquers = Alclad type stuff (except Alclad does not need thinning); Cellulose will clean an airbrush to some extent but a very expensive product to waste like that, for enamels, Polyclens or "paint brush cleaner" (in some shops) a clear blue liquid is so much cheaper and works very well. Isoproponol (medical alcohol) to thin acrylics. Obtainable from a hardware shop - maybe - as it can be used as a chemical trigger for a bomb so may be hard to get in UK. I bought my litre bottle from the local chemist shop (Pharmacy) Never spray cellulose based paint directly onto plastic as it MAY eat into the plastic. Use an undercoat such as acrylic. No it WILL eat into the plastic. Make your undercoat the same colour as your main top-coat; If it is white then that is OK but it is best to use a slightly different shade so you can see where you have painted the top colour, that is if you need an undercoat I very rarely do so. Use Johnsons Klear... a lot. good advice Spray close to the model at 8psi, never get above 15psi..... that may be Richards way but not the only way, My air is set mostly at 30lbs PSI and I can spray lines as fine as a biro from less than half inch away, must admit I lower the pressure for alclad if I remember it. there is no fixed way to airbrush as soon as you have been shown how to use the brush and had ten minutes tuition you will develop your own style believe me. Low tack post-it notes are good maskers for spraying individual panels. Get a spray booth...NOW....a kitchen extractor fans does not have sealed motors which means the fumes could explode if one is used instead of a proper spray booth like graphic air produce. Are your wife & childrens lives worth more than £250.... (a rather stark statement I thought but it rammed the point home). Always dismante an airbrush to clean after use. Simply spraing thinner etc through it is not sufficient. Remove the needle out towards the front of the brush for cleaning & reinsert from the rear.... That may be true of Iwata brushes ( I wonder how much they are paying him to advertise them) with a badger 200 brush or most other makes remove the paint jar and draw the needle back and plug a jar of polyclens in and spray a drop through then use a paper towel over the nozzle to back flush for a few seconds and then hang up your brush, NEVER dismantle your brush unless it is absolutely necessary, pull the needle out just to check it is clean if you want to. Oh, and apparently the bloody bureaucrats at the EU in Brussels are banning enamels in Toys in 2008 which means enamel based paint is about to die in Europe......... Hopefully sense will prevail and models may not be classed as toys and so escape (yeah, fat chance). Oh Oh and apparently badger 150's (and all else Badger) are crap compared to Iwata... which is a pain as I recently bought two..... That is absolute rubbish ( I wonder how much they are paying him to advertise them) the badger and Revell brushes are excellent tools, I have done all my work with a badger or Revell brushes and you must have all seen some of my work and no they are not paying me at all dogsbodyX you have a good brush there so don't let all that rubbish put you off. Ted Taylor Edited November 21, 2006 by TedTaylor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GR3A Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Thanks for giving some alternative views Ted. I never like to see one sided commentary - especially where products are involved. It's fine to have an opinion as long as that's how it's presented. If it's quoted 'as Gospel' then folks are easily misled.... Nuff said! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scotsman Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 I gotta agree with Ted, some of the comments did seem a little odd to someone who's been happly using an airbrush for 15+ years now , always Badger , never had any serious problems with them . The advice to ALWAYS strip a brush down after painting just seemed very strange to me indeed , Clean them by shooting thinners ok , but a total strip down after every colour change no way .. the threads will wear , you'll loosen connections etc - just very strange advice indeed! Oh and in the past I've seen Ted do airbrush demo's at earlier Nationals - and his work was very impressive as well - Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bennygmanuk Posted November 22, 2006 Author Share Posted November 22, 2006 Absolutely right, 'received wisdom' is dangerous and can discourage experimentation. The only right technique is the one that works for you but the ideas raised here make a good jumping off point for discovering what that may be. Re Ted's comments on cleaning and Iwata brushes; everytime I've sprayed Acrylics I've had to remove and clean the needle which has had about it's front third covered in paint. So I'd agree that for Iwata's the strip-down is probably a good idea and it seems to have been designed to facilitate this. It was watching part of Ted's demo last year that got me into airbrushing in the first place (at least, I think it was you, just by the Revell stand?); thank's for that, it's taken my modelling to a new level of enjoyment (mostly). Steve. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Falkirk1298 Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 In the past I have used Surgical Spirits (Isopropyl alcohol by a different name? - haven't got a bottle handy) to thin acrylic paints (Tamiya mainly) and to clean brushes used for acrylics. With thinning, for me a good paint to thinner ratio works best - I did it by mistake the other way round (more surgical spirits than paint) and the paint remained tacky for days on end and seemed to eat into the plastic a bit.I bought a bottle of the stuff from Boots (behind the counter, had to ask for it) and the most recent bottle if memory serves me right I bought from Tescos (again behind the counter). Not sure if any of this helps; it's been a while since I've done any modelling. :( Surgical Spirit is essentially Ethanol with a percentage of methanol added to make it unfit for drinking. There's a hazard data sheet for it here: http://www.rawchem.co.uk/data_sheets/SURGI...SPIRIT%20BP.pdf It's highly flammable and, while I keep a small pot for cleaning acrylic paint off brushes, I've never used it as a thinner for spraying. Isopropyl Alcohol http://www.rawchem.co.uk/data_sheets/ISO%2...20%20%20IPA.pdf is a different but still potentially dangerous substance, especially in an aerosol form. Personally, I use car windscreen washer fluid to thin acrylics for painting. It contains a proportion of IPA, detergent to break surface tension and distilled water - much safer! John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pinky coffeeboat Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 Thanks John for the info, didn't know that. I remember reading about using surgical spirits as a thinner for acrylic paint in a magazine several years ago. Gave it a go and found that it was quite good - much cheaper than buying a jar of Tamiyas own thinner. I haven't used windscreen washer fluid, but if and when I can eventually get back to model making again, I'll give it a go. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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