Tomcat Fanatic Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Does the B-1 just go with a two man crew? No relief pilot included? (in all honesty I have no idea if the relief pilot system is even considered in the military. I ask this from a airline backround perspective) Nope, no relief pilot except the copilot. I don't envy that crew having to face their plane captain and explain to him what they did to his jet, after they get through with the Accident Investigation Board. That pilot done sanded his model a little too much! Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Kethan Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Does the B-1 just go with a two man crew? No relief pilot included? (in all honesty I have no idea if the relief pilot system is even considered in the military. I ask this from a airline backround perspective) The USN P-3 community uses a relief pilot on the long patrols. We called them 3P's (third pilot) instead of relief pilots. BTW, the copilot was called the 2P and the Capt is called the PPC - Patrol Plane Commander I don't envy that crew having to face their plane captain and explain to him what they did to his jet, after they get through with the Accident Investigation Board. The LEAST of that crew's worries is the Plane Captain. They need to sweat their meeting with the Wing Commander. It was HIS jet, not the PC's. Chris Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Does the B-1 just go with a two man crew? No relief pilot included? (in all honesty I have no idea if the relief pilot system is even considered in the military. I ask this from a airline backround perspective) David, The B-1 community dropped the idea of having more bodies than ejection seats in a plane after that early Bone crash, where the two extra pilots on board died. Regards, Murph Link to post Share on other sites
David Walker Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 I don't envy anyone having to fly a ten, twelve, fifteen hour mission (I understand their's was pretty long) with only two pilots. But I'm sure it happens in the military all the time. Link to post Share on other sites
Waco Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 I don't envy anyone having to fly a ten, twelve, fifteen hour mission (I understand their's was pretty long) with only two pilots. How about a 10, 12, or 14 hour sortie in a single seat fighter? Yes, it happens. Link to post Share on other sites
J.C. Bahr Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 (edited) The B-1 community dropped the idea of having more bodies than ejection seats in a plane after that early Bone crash, where the two extra pilots on board died. What's the story behind this one... anymore information out there Murph? Whoa, this is my 2000th post! ;) Edited December 1, 2006 by J.C. Bahr Link to post Share on other sites
Rodney Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123027337 HTH, Rodney Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat Fanatic Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 How about a 10, 12, or 14 hour sortie in a single seat fighter? Yes, it happens. Even the single seaters have "George" to help out. Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 (edited) What's the story behind this one... anymore information out there Murph? J.C., Very early in the B-1 introduction to service, one of them suffered bird strikes on the wing leading edges. This ruptured various lines in the aircraft, starting a fire, and the crew was forced to eject. Unfortunately, they had six crewmembers on board (for training purposes), and obviously only 4 ejection seats. The two without seats were supposed to perform a manual bailout, but due to the low altitude and how fast the situation developed, they were unable to do so, and died. I took particular interest in the accident, since one of the two that died was my roommate from ROTC summer camp. Even the single seaters have "George" to help out. On a mission that long, one is inevitably flying in formation with other fighters or with tankers, so the autopilot gets very little use to begin with, and even when it does, the pilot still has to monitor everything. Regards, Murph Edited December 1, 2006 by Murph Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat Fanatic Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 On a mission that long, one is inevitably flying in formation with other fighters or with tankers, so the autopilot gets very little use to begin with, and even when it does, the pilot still has to monitor everything. I guess that's true, although I would think that for the pilots' sakes the formation would be as loose as possible, not the tight finger-fours you see in the movies. Link to post Share on other sites
Murph Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I guess that's true, although I would think that for the pilots' sakes the formation would be as loose as possible, not the tight finger-fours you see in the movies. If the weather allows it, the aircraft can move out to a route or spread formation, but they are still often restricted by ATC rules to stay within certain distances, distances close enough to minimize the use of autopilot. If the weather isn't good... Well, I got to spend four straight hours in fingertip during Desert Shield crossing the Med. Regards, Murph Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat Fanatic Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) Frankly I'm surprised that the AF hasn't fitted Station-Keeping Equipment to more of its aircraft types. It seems like it would be a godsend for you fighter types doing transoceanic deployments. I would have posted this earlier but final exams are just around the corner, and you can guess how busy I've been. Edited December 7, 2006 by Tomcat Fanatic Link to post Share on other sites
engineman Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 That's true, but even loose formation gets taxing after a while. On an 8-10 hour ocean crossing, you pray that the lead has the good sense to swap formation sides halfway through. Otherwise you get a severely stiff neck from looking over your shoulder the same direction for that long. Also, ocean crossings require the wear of the always popular anti-exposure suit, a cramped cockpit from food, piddle packs, etc. Even with the autopilot, its neither comfortable, nor like you can afford to take a nap. And unfortunately, the autopilot in both the Eagle and the Raptor does not prove particularly helpful for anything other than short periods of time. Lastly, as Murph stated, weather also is a factor. Since tanker crews seemingly train to find weather, no matter how blue the sky may be, most long range missions seem to involve some period of time hanging a few feet off the wingtip position lights of a KC-135 or KC-10. Gotta tell ya being a tanker guy we try awfully hard to find nice weather for you fighter guys, butI have seen more cornet delays due to fighter weather minimus at alternates than you can countwe try awfully hard to help out the fighters but it is not always possible Scott Link to post Share on other sites
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