Hobbycraft 1/32nd scale Sopwith Camel

[geedubelyer]

Hi folks, everyone well?

I'm back with a short update on Camel progress.

Work continues on the interior.

This one is the hand pump on the starboard cockpit sidewall.....

As you can see, I've added a little more detail just to spice up the interior a bit. I'm used to modern jets which have alot going on so I would like to put as much in here as necessary.

The fuel tank sits atop some plastic in order to hold it in position, the frame around it is solely for effect. (Too difficult to make it structural..... <_< )

Port side next with the throttle and sight glass.....

WOW!...this macro photography really highlights all of the impediments, eh? In normal size the paintwork does n't appear nearly as lumpy, honest.

Next is a rather indistinct picture of the rudder bar, sorry. I blame the camera but then I would, would n't I?

The wires are intended to give the impression of going aft but actually stop somewhere under the seat. (I hope nothing will be seen any further back :unsure: )

Control column next. Again, most of the bits 'n' bobs added are to give a busier looking interior. Much of this stuff is very fragile so I hope it survives later assembly and painting.

Put it all together and what have you got?................

Please let me know what to correct. This is just dry-fitted at present so things can still be easily rectified.

I've left out the carb intake pipe but will add that before final assembly and the seat and straps need putting in place to complete the cockpit but I hope you get the idea of what it might look like.

Thanks for watching.

Edited February 25, 2007 by geedubelyer

[Skyking]

Geedub that looks wonderful. To be honest I don't think I'd "fix" a thing. The only thing I am not sure of is if the aluminum comes that far back underneath the floorboards. It may, so don't take my word for it if you have references that show otherwise. I was under the impression though that it was all fabric in that area. Your column and rigging are perfect, and your instrument board looks great. I wouldn't change a thing. Once you get that seat of yours in it'll look great. I wouldn't be too concerned about your rudder cables. Once they go under the seat they pretty much dissapear from view. Outstanding for a first biplane subject. Are you getting bit with the bug any worse?

Cheers

Mike

[HOLMES]

Hey this is looking AWESOME.....really impressive stuff going on here.....look forward to seeing more of your work........LOVE IT!!!

HOLMES.... ;)

[geedubelyer]

Thanks for the words of encouragement folks, much appreciated.

The only thing I am not sure of is if the aluminum comes that far back underneath the floorboards.

Me too Mike. <_<

The photo I used as reference could well have been a replica. http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Bri/SopCa..._Camel_Seat.jpg

Or it might be grey coloured linen, it's hard to tell. I kinda like the metal effect though as it gives a nice contrast to the wood of the floorboards.

Worked a little more on the seat this afternoon.

I've had to make a representation of straps which are probably nothing like the real article but they break up the seat base a bit.

I want to try to get the fuselage closed up sometime soon so that I can move this build on

Here's a comparison between the kit part and scratch built item.....

Hobbycraft supply decals to represent the wicker of the seat..............

My intention is to fit a bar holding the shoulder straps into the fuselage behind the seat but, I plan to leave them draped behind, rather than over it.

[MickeyThickey]

Here's a comparison between the kit part and scratch built item.....

So... which one's the scratchbuilt item?

[PapaSmurf630]

Hehe Mickey, you were going to say what I was

Looks great Geedub. What are the buckles made from? Look like time consuming items...can't believe this is 1/32. Seat is awe inspiring....as usual!

[Skyking]

HIya Geedub,

I showed your seat to SWMBO. Her reaction:

"Oh my God he's as nuts as you are"

I am in good company

Cheers

Mike

Edited February 23, 2007 by Skyking

[geedubelyer]

MickeyFickey Posted Feb 18 2007, 10:31 PM

QUOTE(geedubelyer @ Feb 18 2007, 01:10 PM)

Here's a comparison between the kit part and scratch built item.....

So... which one's the scratchbuilt item?

PapaSmurf630 Posted Feb 18 2007, 10:50 PM

Hehe Mickey, you were going to say what I was

:)

Thanks fellas

*EDIT* Jake, the buckles are simply thin wire bent to shape. The tri-angular one with the loop was made by pulling a loop of wire tight and then forming the ends into a triangle, the rectangular buckle was three bends in a piece of wire with a short length set into the foil for the centre part. Each bucle was wrapped with the foil belt to hide the joins. Believe it or not, they only took a matter of minutes. HTH *EDIT*

Skyking Posted Feb 23 2007, 03:37 AM

HIya Geedub,

I showed your seat to SWMBO. Her reaction:

"Oh my God he's as nuts as you are"

I am in good company

Cheers

Mike

Thanks Mrs Skyking.

I'm honoured. ^_^

This weekend I've been doing a little metal work.....

(the upper cowling is only placed in position, not glued...)

Eventually the ejector shute will be painted in steel/aluminium shades instead of the brass. I cut the oval shape from a separate piece of metal foil to give different "grain" and added screw fasteners using a rivetting tool and blade tip. The original molded oval was sanded off before the foil was glued in place. This is intended to mimic the look of the full sized aeroplane more.

I've also spent some time "sewing" :

You may have noticed the holes drilled into the fuselage side. I have attempted to replicate the stitching along the linen.....

This takes a long time but once finished I intend to cover the stitches with a layer of decal and then paint over it all. Hopefully (fingers crossed) this might add more relief than the kit parts' raised plastic lines.

Edited February 25, 2007 by geedubelyer

[Skyking]

Coming along famously Geedub. I love the idea with the stitching. Real stitching was not perfectly spaced and perfectly in line like molded stitching portrays. Your effect will give a very realistic "natural" appearance.

Looking forward to more updates.

Cheers

Mike

[PapaSmurf630]

Bloody good work GDub, it's a shame you don't get more coverage down here in the 'dark parts' of these forums :lol:

Anyway, love your work! So you've got weaving and stitching out of the way...you going to do some crochet and perhaps a little embroidery somewhere along the line? :o :o

[martin_sam_2000]

AMAZING!! that has to be one of the best biplane models i have seen taht was not balsa. your technique for painting the wood grain is unbeleivable. until i found thsi site i thought i was a good model builder..but some of the work i have seen really knocks me down a peg. please keep posting pics of this one..i am a HUGE camel fan.

sean

[Zactoman]

Thanks for the words of encouragement folks, much appreciated.

Dude you're certifiable!

To the happy home

With trees and flowers and chirping birds

And basket weavers who sit and smile

And twiddle their thumbs and toes

And they're coming to take me away, Ha-haaa!

Great stuff G!

:D

[Col.]

Amazing work GeeDub, that seat is pure inspiration! This build will look stunning and well suited to a place in your display cabinet alongside the Flanker.

[Old Man]

Coming along famously, Sir!

That is a particularly noble effort on the lacings.

[geedubelyer]

Thanks you guys :)

Your enthusiasm and encouragement is warmly welcomed and much appreciated.

I've got a little scoop for you all ;)

I've just managed to get an airbrush sorted out........ :o Remember, you heard it here first!

It's an old Badger something or other and I'm running it on compressed gas through some kind of pressure regulator.

It seems to work o.k. but I'm going to need alot of practice mixing paint and working out correct pressures.

I've spent some time over the weekend playing about with things, perhaps you could give me the benefit of your expertise. Please could you tell me what you think of the following series of snaps? (Not just the airbrush technique but the way the wing looks too.)

I've used a Skull white undercoat from a Citadel Miniatures spray can to give an even basis, a blank canvas if you will.

Auto coach lining tape is used to mask over the ribs and then a pre-shade is applied between the ribs.

I'm using Valejo acrylics at this time and the pre-shade is Wood brown with a little Chocolate brown added for the darkest portions.

So, once I was happy with the shading I made a first pass with the linen colour, in this case Radome tan, to mute the shadow a little.

The idea is to simulate the shadowed area between the ribs and with the masking removed......

..I layered on thin coats of the linen colour until I had an effect I was happy with.

Now I'd very much like to know what you fellows think. You guys are the experts and I value your opinions and input. I plan on using the same technique for the upper wing surfaces only with shades of green obviously.

If you think it is wrong or poor, please let me know. I'm a novice when it comes to this sort of stuff so any and all help is welcome.

Finally for this update, here's a snap of how I plan to connect the rigging.

This was taken before the painting session and shows the tiny brass eyes I hope to thread the rigging through. I've re-shaped some model railway components, OO gauge handrail knobs, and super-glued them into holes I've drilled into the wings. If all goes according to plan I should be able to thread the rigging wire/monofilament/lycra through these eyes, pull them taught and glue them in place.......well, in theory at least :lol:

'Til next time.

:huh:

[Old Man]

You have gotten a splendid unbleached linen color, Sir, and a very realistic effect for variation in its shade. The craftsmanship is excellent.

I would point out an element that strikes me a little off about it, unfortunately. The technique you have used leaves the ribs somewhat paler than the general linen surface. In most photographs of aeroplanes in this period with unpainted linen undersurfaces, you will see that the framework of the wing, the ribs and often even the spars, show through the fabric surface darkly. This is an effect of sunlight shining through the somewhat transluscent structure: it is much more striking on machines which have unpainted upper surfaces as well, but still usually present to some degree on those with a painted upper surface. The usual method for representing this is to do the ribs in a darker tone than the rest of the surface before painting the linen color on, and putting on only enough of the linen color to cover the base coat, but not wholly obscure the darker tone of the structural elements. Another method I have read of, but not employed myself, is to mark the ribbings after painting with a grey-brown pastel or other colored pencil, and spray on a clear sealing coat of some variety as a fixative. That might be the easiest course if you feel this worth altering, which you may well not, as the thing is an excellent piece of work as it stands. Other alternatives might be strips of decal film painted to a slightly darker shade, or masking to mist onto only the ribs a slightly darker shade.

On the upper surface of a painted wing, the effect of taping the ribs is often that they are a trifle lighter in appearance, though I am not sure the reason for this.

I very much like the small eylets you have anchored in for the rigging. That is going to have a splendidly realistic effect, I think. On most pictures of English aeroplanes I have seen, these are black in color.

[Skyking]

HIya Guy,

A couple of points Guy, first regarding your compressed air setup. What type of storage tank are you using? If it's a regular air tank that you pump up with a compressor it's not too big of a deal. If it is a Air bottle or CO2 bottle, please Guy, chain it to a table leg, or place it in a container that will prevent it from ever falling over. A fellow I know where I grew up knocked over his CO2 bottle that was just recently filled. When it fell it broke the nipple off that held the regulator and he had a 20 pound missile that took off across his floor and embedded itself into the wall, before completely venting itself. A regular compressed air tank isn't quite as volatile, but I wouldn't recommend pressurizing it more than what the label says. It's amazing how much force there is in compressed air. Back in my younger days I worked part time at a tire shop. I was inflating a passenger tire on the machine and had it almost to 30 pounds when the bead wire broke. I knocked me back 10 feet and my ears were ringing for 15 minutes afterwords. It's not anything to take lightly.

For airbrushing I generally thin my paint to about the consistency of skim milk, and shoot at as low a pressure as possible... 10 to 20 psi, with 15 being the medium. This helps reduce over-spray and spatter for me, and I can get a nice thin line. I use a Badger 150 with a Fine Tip for general work, and I also have an Iwata dual action (model number escapes me at the moment) I use for detail work. I also shoot enamels almost exclusively. I see other guys get some spectacular results with acrylics, but I seem to be snake-bit whenever I attempt them and it ends up looking like crap.

Now regarding your Camel. What you have done looks awesome. The shading is gorgeous and the effect is really nice. But I must concur with OldMan Guy. The ribs would generally be of a darker "shadow", and the areas in between would be lighter. If you reverse what you have I think you will have it nailed. Bear in mind too, that the top color ( PC-10 I presume) is a rather dark color and blocks a lot of sunlight, so I would keep the effect subtle, and not as pronounced as an overall Natural linen machine. They would be much more translucent.

I will be watching your rigging closely. I'll be curious to see how you seize off the ends of your lines through the eyelets, and not have a large "tail" left over from your knot. I have no doubts that you will be able to pull it off, I'm really curious to see how you do it, as I'd like to try something similar in 48th scale.

If your Camel turns out as nice as your Flanker, this will be an eye popper.

Cheers

Mike

[geedubelyer]

Gentlemen, a heartfelt thank you for taking the time to respond to my pleas. Your input is much appreciated and very thought provoking.

Mike, the first thing I did after reading your post was use a belt to tie the CO2 cylinder to a large wooden cross beam. Thanks for the advice my friend. The last thing I want is to launch a projectile through our roof!

Old man, I found your comments extremely useful, thankyou. You had me checking my references again and because of that I spotted an omission I needed to correct.

In the picture below you might notice the additional lines (#1). These are quite evident on pictures of the full sized aeroplane and I might have left them off if I had n't re-visited the reference material. (The colour is only lighter because the camera flash fired.)

Guys, I hope that you are not too disappointed that I've chosen to keep the paintwork the way it was. I have not ignored your advice and it is only after much thought and consideration that I opted to leave the ribs lighter. May I include a link to explain my reasons?

http://www.wwi-models.org/Photos/Bri/SopCamel/index.html

I suspect that you will probably already know these pictures and it might be that the phenomenom is due to indoor photography. If that's the case, I'll have to suggest that my model represents a museum exhibit

#2 is where I've used some pastel dust to enhance contrast over the ribs. It also has the added benefit of giving an aged look to the "fabric".

Yet another question now I'm afraid.......

In photos of Camels I've noticed that the upper surface colour is sometimes visible along the edges of the undersides of the flying surfaces, but not always. Would you know if this is due to museum renovation styles or was it more down to individual factories at the time of manufacture? I can't decide whether to paint the edges green or not. The masking puts me off a little so I'm erring toward leaving all undersurfaces linen coloured.

If I eventually end up with something similar to this:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1034074/L/

I'll be happy....

B)

Edited March 13, 2007 by geedubelyer

[Old Man]

Personally, Sir, I think you are wise to leave matters as they are. That is a beautiful bit a craftsmanship, and any re-working would add risk of something going wrong. You could suggest it a model of a machine in a hanger or on a cloudy day just as easily as you could invoke a museum. The thing is a light effect, and varies with the brightness of sunlight on a day, and even the angle at which the wing is being viewed. Here are links to period photographs on the Rosebud WWI and Early Aviation site to illustrate....

This is crashed Camel, in which you can see the ribs in stark, dark clarity, and you will see from the angle of the shadow under the tailplane that the sun is striking full on the upper wing surfaces.

http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/images3/camel_x.jpg

Here is a Camel (a Naval model) at rest on the ground, in which the ribs show clearly dark, and which again it is clear from the shadow under the machine the sun is shining overhead.

http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/w/imag...Camel_Lewis.jpg

And here is a Camel at rest on the ground in which the ribs do show as lighter, and in which there is a glint on the rounded cowling that suggests the picture may have been taken with a flash-pan

http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/images...pCamelN6332.jpg

Those extra lines are the spars of the wing, Sir, the real major structural components of the lifting surface. They do generally show through, though the fabric is not fastened to them as it is to the ribs.

To answer your question about the "outlining" effect. English aeroplanes with the P.C. 10 doped upper surfaces often had the upper surface color carried over for a couple of inches onto the under surface of wings and tailplanes. It was not a uniform practice, however, and unless you have a photograph showing a particular machine you are modeling with such "outlining", there is no reason to attempt it. I am not aware of the practice, or its absence, being linked to particular manufacturers, but I do not claim any great detailed knowledge on the subject. I only know some did have it and some did not, and it certainly was something done often in the period.

[geedubelyer]

Thank you Old Man, eloquently explained. I see exactly what you mean and I'll consider using the darker ribbed effect if I build another biplane in the future. (I see Roden have an SE5a in my scale...)

I have decided to stick with the lighter colour on the underside so below you can see my take on the P.C.10 colour for the fuselage and upper flying surfaces.

After what you fellows have said I have adapted the colouration slightly.

#1, shows the masking in place. (This gave me an idea of what it must have taken you to get the rib decals on your floatplane Mike although, I had the kit ribs as a guide which made it much easier for me!)

#2, This time the pre-shade was applied along the raised rib detail rather than between them. The colour is Valejo Medium Green

#3, With the masking removed the contrast is very stark.

#4, The next coat is a 75/25 mix of Med. Green and Olive Drab sprayed between the ribs.

#5, The third layer is a 25/75 mix of the Med. Green and Olive Drab, this time along the ribs which begins to bring the contrast down.

#6, Finally a 10/90 mix (Med. Green/Olive Drab) sprayed overall to try to tie in the various elements.

With your explanation of the "outlining" Old Man, I will leave the wings as they are if possible. It rather depends how they look once the masking is removed.

For someone who is not a fan of pre-shading I seem to be going overboard with it! My excuse is that fabric has much more in the way of shadow and fading than metal panels. I certainly don't expect to use these techniques when I get back to jets.

So far I'm fairly pleased with my first attempt but anticipate a little weathering with pastels toward the end of the build just to tone things down still further.

In one way I can't wait to peel away the masking to see what I'm left with. In another way I'm filled with trepidation. What if the masking has n't worked? What if there are ridges of paint where the masking was? What if the tape peels away underlying elements..........?

Up to this point, I have thoroughly enjoyed using an airbrush. Stay with me to see if that feeling remains.......

Thanks for looking.

[geedubelyer]

Just call me Mr.Impatient

Here's another shot of this weekends' progress.......

I could n't wait to get some colour on this thing :o

Applying the decals has had its' issues. I used the kit items and the single colour decals are o.k. (~ish)

A little on the thick side but passable. The roundels are another thing. Wow, are these decals thick! I'm sorry to say that they just would not sit down over any raised detail. The result is some nasty air bubbles in places (particularly on the rudder) and some silvering under the starboard side serial number

I've learnt a very valuable lesson here. Aftermarket decals or paint masks are a definate option should I see this sort of decal again....... :(

On a brighter note, the masking worked out fairly well for the most part. It did peel back some of the foil but, hey......, that's life eh? A little touch-up will be needed but not too much. (I'd say 7/10 for a first try). I'm quite pleased with the finish I've achieved. As always there is room for improvement but I've learnt a huge amount so far.

The colours seem very bright/stark at this point so a certain amount of weathering/ageing is called for at a later date.

'til next time.

Edited March 18, 2007 by geedubelyer

[Old Man]

That is looking very nice, Sir!

Some suggestions regarding weathering you might want to consider.

The principal 'staining' on this machine would come from burnt oil thrown out with the exhaust from vents at the cylinder heads. This collected in the cowling, and flew back from its open bottom along the underside of the fuselage. The color should be a brown black, and it should be at least semi-gloss, not matte like soot. The staining should go back to a point a bit short of the trailing edge of the wing.

The finish of English aeroplanes was highly glossy at the start. Indeed, the green tone often ascribed to P.C.10 was an artifact of reflection off the glossy surface more than the mix of pigments. As the gloss deteriorated, the stuff took on a browner tone. Machines did not last awfully long at the front, three to four months being a reasonable expectation on average, but the gloss did not last more than a few weeks out of doors. A good route for weathering, therefore, is a random variation from high gloss through satins to full matte on all surfaces, with, on the upper-surfaces, a suggestion of brown accompanying the full matte portions.

Peeling paint is not often seen on machines in France, though it is fairly common on service machines in the Near East, and on near derelicts at training stations. Underneath the P.C.10 there were generally several coats of a brick-red dope, so if you do try for peeling effects, at the lacings or at edges of the cloth panels, flecks of that color would be more appropriate than bare linen. On old and well-worn machines, the undercoat sometimes showed through to give a reddish cast to the surface. But any of these effects would, I think, be over-doing it by half. Your best bet is to aim at a machine on the line for a couple of months only.

Edited March 19, 2007 by Old Man

[geedubelyer]

Thank you Old Man, your information is invaluable and very much appreciated. It occurs to me that I might suggest to onlookers that the model represents a restored/museum piece. That way I could probably get away with very little weathering after all

Here are one or two photos of recent progress.

The first couple show the engine cowling.

I used Humbrol Metalcote Polished Aluminium but feel that it is too "grainy" next to the adjacent real metal panels. I suspect I'm going to have to try Alclad II to achieve a smooth, metallic look. Difficult to tell from the photos I know but, can anyone with experience of the Alclad laquers tell me which colour might best match the foil on the fuselage please?

The next photos show the undercart.

This is taking quite alot of time and effort because it is decidedly skew-whiff. I've spent an age trying to line it all up so that it does n't look too drunk once in place.

The bungee is actually lead core fishing wire which has a slight texture to it from the cloth sheathing it's wrapped in.

Lastly, the padded leather cockpit surround. You can see from earlier pics in this thread that Hobbycraft suggest the padding with only a raised lip to the cockpit. There is definate room for improvement so here is my attempt............

The padding is constructed from a foil base and a sausage of "green-stuff" modelling putty. The foil was embossed with a rivetting tool to represent the eyelets.

Various shades from Citadel Miniatures and Valejo were used for the colouring.

[Skyking]

Hiya Guy

That is looking terrific. I love the effect of your combing around the opening, it looks very convincing.

In regards to your question regarding what shade of Alclad to use. When I did my model of the Camel at the US Naval museum, I needed a polished look to the cowl as well. I used their "Chrome" color and was very happy with it. I think it'll be a good match to your foiled side panels, as they have quite the polished look to them. Perhaps a light dusting of flatcoat to tone them down a little would even it all out, but they would look pretty good the way they are now.

It's coming along nicely guy. I'd be happy to have it in my case.

Cheers

Mike

[Sabre F-86]

This model is amazing. I wish I was half as good as you.

Just a question though. Is it my eyes playing tricks or did you forget to drill out the muzzle on the stbd MG? That first photo look like the left side gun is drilled out but the right hand one appears to be still untouched.

Sabre