geedubelyer Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 (edited) :wub: Believe it or not, this is the third time I've added an update here! I've just spent an hour carefully detailing my woes only to preview the page and lose all of the data :D I think someone is trying to tell me something. Mike, thanks for the kudos my friend. Coming from you that is high praise indeed and really means alot. I'll see if I can find some Alclad Chrome. Sabre, good eyes. Thanks for the reminder, I'd have forgotten that. Luckily the MGs were n't fixed when the photo was snapped so it was easy to remedy. Edited April 10, 2007 by geedubelyer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geedubelyer Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 (edited) I have an ever growing admiration and respect for those of you who regularly build rigged, multi-winged aeroplanes. Yesterday, I spent a very long, frustrating time trying to fix the upper wing in place. Eventually I completed the task only to discover the upper wing resembled a banana :) I can't face re-doing it so I suspect this build is destined for the darkest recesses of my cabinet. :wub: From the rear three-quarters the problem is n't immeadiately evident From the front, things are not so good It's possible I've incorrectly positioned the cabane struts or the y may be too long. Either way, I'm not convinced that it looks right. Ah well, c' est la guerre On a different tack, I've rigged the undercart with wire and made a pitot from scratch It's the rigging next, wish me luck! :D Edited April 10, 2007 by geedubelyer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skyking Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Ahhhhh Grasshopper. You learn first truth about biplanes...lol Relax Guy, all is not lost. From the pictures it appears your cabane struts are a smidge too long. One thing I have learned from building these is never ever trust the struts that come in the kit as being right. Always do a dry fit and check them before committing to glue. Here's how I would fix them.: Remove the top wing if you can, without breaking anything. If you pop a strut pin off, no biigie, redo it with a tiny drill bit and fine copper wire ( I use Bell wire for telephones). Remove your cabane struts carefully, but leave your wing struts in place. First lay your wing flat on a table to make sure that your wing isn't bowed. If it is, some gentle persuasion under some hot water will take care of it. Just be careful of your decals. Now take your upper wing and lay it on your wing struts and rubber band it in place so it doesn't move around on you. You will have to be careful you don't flex it one way or the other and break off a wing strut. Now take some inside calipers and measure from your fuselage to your wing socket, and transfer that measurement to your cabanes, and trim them to that length. Repeat for the other three struts, and you will have a nice flat upper wing when it's all glued back together. Cut all of them to length first before you glue it back together, then double check your alignment, both front view, side view and top view. If it's any consolation, this has happened to me numerous times, and it's quite fixable. you just have to resist the "ahhhh screw it" temptation and fix it. Approach it the next day when it's not so fresh on your mind, and you'll find it's not as bad as you thought it would be. Your Camel is much too nice to give up on. Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan the rabbit Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Darkest recesses of the cabinet? Guy, don't be a muppet.. It looks fookin' champion. Perseverance old boy, what what what! If you can fix it like Mike says, then great, otherwise just rig it and finish it off. You've spent far too long on this, and put in such a bloody great amount of effort (I can only hope the Revell 1/28th Camel I just bought off e-bay will look half as good) for it to be hidden away behind some jets! All the best, Nick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan the rabbit Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Ohh.. That last post just qualified me as a rivet counter! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geedubelyer Posted April 10, 2007 Author Share Posted April 10, 2007 Ohh..That last post just qualified me as a rivet counter! Congrats Nick, not long to go before you catch MadMike, David Walker and the others in the 10k posse Your continued encouragement is without doubt, invaluable. Guys, without your support I'd have left this kit as it was and shoved it to the back of the case. As it is, I've dug deep, followed the maestros' directions and shortened the cabane struts. It ain't pretty but it looks a little better. Hard to tell from this pic but the upper wing is much less bowed now. With a little load on the wings everything straightens out a treat. I had to remove approx 2.5mm from each strut. (Remind me to measure them before I fit them if I ever build another bi-plane....... ) Thanks again fellas :wub: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pete "Pig" Fleischmann Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 (edited) OK Guy-I gotta' jump in here! First, I must confess, I usually wander over to this forum to see what my good friend and master-modeler/psycho Skyking is up to. His work is a constant source of inspiration of me. While parousing this forum, I noticed your Camel! I'm embarassed I didn't get to see it sooner! I am flaberghasted. You are doing one heck of a job. The metal work is gorgeous, the scratchbuilt seat is pure brilliant insanity, and the prop looks like the real thing! Looking at it, you can see the weight of it. I can't explain it-it's just perfect. Don't sweat the struts-you'll fix them. Looks like you've got that airbrush figured out as well. The finish looks super too. I built a Tamya Sworfish a few years ago. Not my best work, but I learned alot and thoroughly enjoyed it. Might build another someday, but the alure of a kerosene-burning, flame breathing, chest thumping 9g hellion is too hard for me to resist... Hats-off to you for an outstanding and inspirational build. Warm Regards, Pig Edited April 11, 2007 by Pete "Pig" Fleischmann Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geedubelyer Posted April 11, 2007 Author Share Posted April 11, 2007 (edited) OK Guy-I gotta' jump in here!I built a Tamya Sworfish a few years ago. Not my best work, but I learned alot and thoroughly enjoyed it. Might build another someday, but the alure of a kerosene-burning, flame breathing, chest thumping 9g hellion is too hard for me to resist... Warm Regards, Pig Hello Pig, nice to see you here. Thanks for the encouragement my friend. As ever, you are generous with your kind words. I see that you too have been tempted by the dark side of the force in the past :lol: For the most part Ive enjoyed this build but if I'm honest,........... I'm itching to get back to my Mudhen I've been keeping a very close eye on your triple build and I'd say you've done it again. That '-16 is sublime. Well today has been a better day. After Mikes' advice and the re-alignment of the struts I felt bold enough to begin the rigging :o I started by attaching the lower-outer wires (sorry I don't know the correct term for them) to the cabane strut tops. By tensioning these wires it lifted the lower wings which in turn, straightened out the upper wing. Here's a shot showing the result. and a couple of close ups of the attachment points. On the advice of Old Man, I'll paint these points black once all of the rigging is complete. I'll have to re-rig the undercart though, the wires got mishapen during the (~ahem~) adjustments. Just for kicks, here is an underside view.... More next time folks. Edited April 11, 2007 by geedubelyer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skyking Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Outstanding guy. You have gone the extra mile that I don't even do with the eyelets and the way you tied them off. It's very authentic. it's much more effective then drilling a hole and just poking the ends in it. I tip my hat to you Guy. You have this down to a science. I look forward to more. Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geedubelyer Posted April 15, 2007 Author Share Posted April 15, 2007 (edited) Hello all, Skyking Posted Apr 11 2007, 08:00 PM Outstanding guy. You have gone the extra mile that I don't even do with the eyelets and the way you tied them off. It's very authentic. it's much more effective then drilling a hole and just poking the ends in it. I tip my hat to you Guy. You have this down to a science. I look forward to more. Cheers Mike Thanks for the kind words Mike. I'm really glad that you like it. That means a great deal to me. I am pleased with the way the eyelets worked out. I admit that after all of my nervousness over the rigging, this method proved almost painless. I think I'd use the same technique again in the future I like to think that I'm on the home straight with this build now(famous last words....!? ;)) and since I was awake I thought I'd bimble around and take a few quick snaps. I guess I'm about 95% done now. The last things to finish are two more control lines, (port ailerons and starboard elevator) the tail skid and bits of touch-up painting. Once I've completed her I'll post more piccies in the Critiques section. I hope you enjoy these few......... First up, the "Museum" shot :lol: Hmmm,......seeing this angle reminds me that I'd also planned to add an aluminium panel to the fuselage floor between the wheel struts. I must n't forget to do that as it could add more interest there. This is a similar angle in more natural lighting. In the end I used Alclad II "Polished Aluminium" for the engine cowling since my cousin had some to hand. The finish is as good as I could have wanted and from some angles it comes close to the colour of the adjacent metal panels. You might also note the tatty hole on the wheel cover. Yep, I over did the thinning and sanded right through the plastic. I suppose if you use a little imagination, the linen might have frayed? :) Here's the other side. It's amazing what springs to mind as you view photos of your model. Now I've spotted some lines I need to add from the pitot and down the cabane strut. It's a good job I posted these or I might have forgotten a lot of finishing bits. O.k, I won't bore you much longer. The last few are rear three-quarter views from both sides and a closer look at the engine in situ....... I'm still undecided as to whether to paint the rigging silver/steel. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks for your patience. (I apologise for the backdrop, I'll take a bit more care for the Critique pics.) 'til next time Edited April 15, 2007 by geedubelyer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan the rabbit Posted April 15, 2007 Share Posted April 15, 2007 (edited) Brilliant Guy, just brilliant. Love that rigging tecnhique through the eyelets. All the best, Nick Edited April 15, 2007 by dylan the rabbit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geedubelyer Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 (edited) Thanks Nick. I would n't want to try it in a smaller scale though. These eyelets were pretty small in '32nd scale..... Here in the U.K. it is rare for the day to be calm and sunny so when it is you've got to make the most of it Although the Camel is n't quite complete I thought I'd have a little fun in the sun. Here are a couple of "aged" pics for you to peruse..... I'd like to get a little feedback on these if possible please. Do you guys like this kind of tampering or would you rather see this sort of thing.........? \/ I managed to get a couple of pics today. My intention is to take the model out into the countryside once it's all done and get a nice backdrop for some photos for the Critique section. Do you think they would be better aged or in full colour? Let me know, eh? Edited April 18, 2007 by geedubelyer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skyking Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 OK Guy, that first picture had me completely conned. I thought it was a real aircraft. Heck no, be creative with your shots. I have no problem with that. Have you ever tried forced perspective? A friend of mine showed me how to do it. He has a backdrop of an airfield that he cut right at the runway line. He sticks the bottom portion on the edge of the table, then props the upper half behind the model. He sets his camera so that the lens is dead even with the top of the table or base and clicks away. Here's a shot of my 1/48th Albatross D-III I scratchbuilt about 15 years ago, before the advent of Eduard. I should try the Sepia tint and see how it looks on mine. Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geedubelyer Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 I should try the Sepia tint and see how it looks on mine. Cheers Mike Thanks for the thumbs-up Mike, it means alot. And in answer to your thoughts...... Pretty darn good I'd say :lol: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ActOfGod Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Impressive build, and believable photos. 3 comments: 1, if you display the model on a firm base (ie not grass) , flats on the contact surface of the tyres will add realism. It is amazing how many excellent models do not have this feature which all real life tyres have ! 2. The rigging wires would have had a metallic finish to them when new but very quickly darken down to a grey colour when used operationally in the field, for even a short time. 3. Have you considered adding fabric tips or brass edging to the propeller?Maybe the aircraft you have built did not have these? Take a look at some of the props on www.aeroclocks.com to see what I mean. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MacStingy Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Nice job. Now you've gotten me all excited about doing a biplane. The rigging looks great. I think the pictures are all good. Its nice to see a variety. Cheers Paul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Old Man Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Great to see such progress on this, Sir! For some reason, most of the recent pictures would not open for me earlier, but tonight they are all lining up. You have certainly aced the rigging, and if I ever move to the lerge scale, I would try and duplicate what you have done. It looks splendid. A first rate job, Sir! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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