Scratchbuilt AT-38B

[blackhawk7]

Awesome work Pig!

This is the definition of scratch-building!

Tom

[RedHeadKevin]

If someone was to do this again, rather than using balsa to take up space, did you think about using canned insulation foam? It expands like crazy and would fill in the gaps nicely. Another thought would be to get a big sheet of styrofoam insulation from a hardware store. They usually come in 4' by 8' sections, up to a few inches thick.

[niart17]

If someone was to do this again, rather than using balsa to take up space, did you think about using canned insulation foam? It expands like crazy and would fill in the gaps nicely. Another thought would be to get a big sheet of styrofoam insulation from a hardware store. They usually come in 4' by 8' sections, up to a few inches thick.

I too thought about expandable foam, but I would maybe be concerned with it expanding and pushing the bulkheads out of alignment...might still work though.

Bill

[Pete "Pig" Fleischmann]

If someone was to do this again, rather than using balsa to take up space, did you think about using canned insulation foam? It expands like crazy and would fill in the gaps nicely. Another thought would be to get a big sheet of styrofoam insulation from a hardware store. They usually come in 4' by 8' sections, up to a few inches thick.

I did consider the canned insulation foam, and Timmy! and I discussed it..we concluded this (the balsa) would in fact be a better solution. We also discussed the foam sheet, but were concerned about compatability issues with the Bondo among other things. The balsa is neat and tight, lending a lot of structural support for the master. It's bullet proof.

Wanted to show you a bit more of the shaping process. The T-38 has a ridge that runs along the canopy sill, back along the shoulders of the jet, and tapers into the top of the intake approaching the trailing edge of the wing. Tough shape to nail. The bulkheads got me really close, but the last bit of taper needed to be layed in with handwork. I tacked my full-size (1/16th scale) profile view on the wall, and used tracing paper to transfer the shape from the drawing to the model. I've localted the bulkheads on the detail drawing, and used them as a reference to accurately place the "shape" on the model:

Here's the curve area I need to sand back to reveal:

Using a flexible straight edge, I'm able to follow the curve precisely:

Shape transfered to tracing paper with bulkheads located for reference on the model:

Place the tracing on the model using the bulkhead locations:

I used my scribing needle in a pin vise to mark the location of the curve through the paper onto the model:

After about an hour of careful sanding got to here:

More to follow....

Pete

Edited March 10, 2010 by Pete "Pig" Fleischmann

[Pete "Pig" Fleischmann]

Here's a few other views. On to the left side now...

Thanks for looking-

Pig

[GreyGhost]

Nice sanding work, Pete ...

If that Pilot gig doesn't work out, you could probably get a job at an auto body repair shop ...

The Talon does have some nice, shapely lines ...

Gregg

[Tilt]

Once again, amazing work. How do you plan to do the panel lines Pig? Do you plan to finish this mold complete with the panel line - or will you simply scribe them on the finished plastic?

Edited March 10, 2010 by Tilt

[Pete "Pig" Fleischmann]

Nice sanding work, Pete ...

If that Pilot gig doesn't work out, you could probably get a job at an auto body repair shop ...

Gregg

Yeah...I bet I could get really cool tools too!

Once again, amazing work. How do you plan to do the panel lines Pig? Do you plan to finish this mold complete with the panel line - or will you simply scribe them on the finished plastic?

Thanks Tilt. The shell will be vac formed, and then each individual panel will be applied in sheet on top of the shell. I've done this 2 layer approach before with a .030 sub fuselage and .010 plastic sheet on top for the panels. Timmy! just about has me convinced to do the panels in aluminum

Regards,

ig

[niart17]

Thanks Tilt. The shell will be vac formed, and then each individual panel will be applied in sheet on top of the shell. I've done this 2 layer approach before with a .030 sub fuselage and .010 plastic sheet on top for the panels. Timmy! just about has me convinced to do the panels in aluminum

Regards,

ig

That's brilliant. I guess that means that the surface texture of the vacformed part doesn't have to be perfect, making it much easier not having to worry about getting the surface perfectly smooth. very good idea...(taking out pen making notes)

Bill

[Tilt]

Thanks Tilt. The shell will be vac formed, and then each individual panel will be applied in sheet on top of the shell. I've done this 2 layer approach before with a .030 sub fuselage and .010 plastic sheet on top for the panels. Timmy! just about has me convinced to do the panels in aluminum

Regards,

ig

Ahhh - I see. So basically, what you're saying is.....you've finally developed a method of shrinking yourself down to the scale size of this bird, and plan to jet around for giggles!! Ammirite?

[PapaSmurf630]

Brilliant progress Pig. Seeing the lines and curves of the fuselage start to appear must be a very satisfying thing! Are there any plans to perhaps light some of the instruments given the scale or is this a powered down bird?

[Pete "Pig" Fleischmann]

Brilliant progress Pig. Seeing the lines and curves of the fuselage start to appear must be a very satisfying thing! Are there any plans to perhaps light some of the instruments given the scale or is this a powered down bird?

Thanks Jake-You're right..Very satisfying with a touch of relief. I don't doubt Timmy's! work, just my own!

I'm still mulling around the idea of adding some power to the jet-

Regards,

Pig

[Paul Mullins]

Thanks Jake-You're right..Very satisfying with a touch of relief. I don't doubt Timmy's! work, just my own!

I'm still mulling around the idea of adding some power to the jet-

Regards,

Pig

Mr. Fleischmann,

I don't suppose you might be interested in a small financial transaction where you could might perhaps think about vacforming an extra copy or two for sale would you? This would be just the fuselage, wings and the tail. With the specfic understanding that anyone who bought a set of these would be on their own for the rest of any kind of a given build . You could set the price even. As you can see, there is already quite an interest in this project of yours.

Paul

[Pete "Pig" Fleischmann]

Mr. Fleischmann,

I don't suppose you might be interested in a small financial transaction where you could might perhaps think about vacforming an extra copy or two for sale would you? This would be just the fuselage, wings and the tail. With the specfic understanding that anyone who bought a set of these would be on their own for the rest of any kind of a given build . You could set the price even. As you can see, there is already quite an interest in this project of yours.

Paul

Hi Paul,

I'd have to decline on this one. Although I have my own vac forming set up, I will likely have the shells pulled by a commercial vac former who can do each entire fuselage half in one pull. My platen is too small to do that. The commercial vac forming is expensive and therefore cost prohibitive to mass produce small quantities.

However, if anyone is interested in following the same process I am for their own project, I'd suggest you get in touch with Timmy!..Maybe you've always wanted to build a big Red finned rumpler bi-plane, or a big Beaufighter. or_________ (fill in the blank) Timmy! can put a plans package together for you.

I'm already thinking about the next big project when this is done. Timmy! will help me pull that one together too-

Regards,

Pig

[dragan_mig31]

:woo: :worship:

[Paul Mullins]

Hi Paul,

I'd have to decline on this one. Although I have my own vac forming set up, I will likely have the shells pulled by a commercial vac former who can do each entire fuselage half in one pull. My platen is too small to do that. The commercial vac forming is expensive and therefore cost prohibitive to mass produce small quantities.

However, if anyone is interested in following the same process I am for their own project, I'd suggest you get in touch with Timmy!..Maybe you've always wanted to build a big Red finned rumpler bi-plane, or a big Beaufighter. or_________ (fill in the blank) Timmy! can put a plans package together for you.

I'm already thinking about the next big project when this is done. Timmy! will help me pull that one together too-

Regards,

Pig

Pete,

Yep, I know the feeling, but I just felt like it couldn't hurt to ask. I actually have a 1/72 B-52B/X-15 combo going at the same time as the 747/Shuttle. (Hey, I have to have something to do while the putty dries), but, I'm not posting that one because I already have my own post going, and someone else has a B-52/X-15 project going in the forums. I don't want to steal their thunder. So, I occupy my time here with my updates and watching guys like you do some incredible work. Keep the pictures coming, I'm rootin' for ya.

Paul

[VADM Fangschleister]

Wow, Pete. And again, Wow!

I remember that shape behind the cockpit above the intakes. Yup, sure do.

It is easy to see that you are making record progress on this compared to Phase 1. Not that phase 1 was bad, mind you. It's just obvious this is a better approach. The rest of the shaping should go quickly and you see results sooner, thereby keeping the enthusiasm level high. The help from Timmy! is noteworthy and exciting.

Clearly, it's a T-38. It will perhaps be the ONLY truly accurate T-38 in any scale, anywhere. Now, where did I put my 1/16 HGU-55P?

Awesome work!!!

Edited March 11, 2010 by VADM Fangschleister

[Pete "Pig" Fleischmann]

Wow, Pete. And again, Wow!

I remember that shape behind the cockpit above the intakes. Yup, sure do.

It is easy to see that you are making record progress on this compared to Phase 1. Not that phase 1 was bad, mind you. It's just obvious this is a better approach. The rest of the shaping should go quickly and you see results sooner, thereby keeping the enthusiasm level high. The help from Timmy! is noteworthy and exciting.

Clearly, it's a T-38. It will perhaps be the ONLY truly accurate T-38 in any scale, anywhere. Now, where did I put my 1/24 HGU-55P?

Awesome work!!!

Hey T

Funny you should mention the helmet. I've got to make one (or two) in 1/16th scale for this model. I've got a few real, full size items I can scale down, including the helmet/mask, G-suit, checklist & kneeboard, BDU-33, and stick grip. All fun-

Thanks

Pig!

[Skyking]

Great work Pete. Love the idea of tracing that ridge out before sanding so you have a visial reference. I'll keep that in mind for my next project.

Scrap the idea of expandable foam. Been there done that got the tee shirt and it don't fit for beans. The stuff never really stops expanding for a long time, and eventually will "grow" bigger than you want it and push your master completely out of proportion. It's not controllable either. Your approach is sure thing and like you say, bulletproof.

I think you'll find you may have to go over the bondo with a glaze putty to fill pinholes and give a smooth surface. My experience has been that Bondo doesn't really finish sand that well. It's great for getting it roughly right, but final smoothing you're better off glazing and wet sanding.

My vote is for power and lights. You've get gobs of room to play with. Maybe even a small pneumatic lift for the canopy hydraulics would be cool too. The R/C guys have some neat pneumatic setups that would fit inside the fuselage.

Looking forward to more updates.

Cheers

Mike

Edited March 11, 2010 by Skyking

[RedHeadKevin]

EDIT: never mind. answered my own question

Edited March 11, 2010 by RedHeadKevin

[JMan]

Man this is a crazy endeavor. but Pig this is turning out aweseome. Cant wait for the next update! Thanks for showing!

[Tilt]

Hey T

Funny you should mention the helmet. I've got to make one (or two) in 1/16th scale for this model. I've got a few real, full size items I can scale down, including the helmet/mask, G-suit, checklist & kneeboard, BDU-33, and stick grip. All fun-

Thanks

Pig!

Dude,

If I don't get a copy of the casting of a 1/24 scale flight helmet in the mail, you're totally off my Christmas card list!!! lol

But seriously, I'm gunned to see how the gear rolls out. I'm certainly a gear junky - so I'll be watching that.

Tilt

[Pete "Pig" Fleischmann]

Dude,

If I don't get a copy of the casting of a 1/24 scale flight helmet in the mail, you're totally off my Christmas card list!!! lol

But seriously, I'm gunned to see how the gear rolls out. I'm certainly a gear junky - so I'll be watching that.

Tilt

OK, OK...but how many times do I have to tell everybody that this model is in 1/16th scale?

Pig

[VADM Fangschleister]

ONE SIXTEENTH....I knew that. Sorry old bean.

However, with that in mind, I have seen various scale hemmets on eBay...But usually 1/6 scale, I think. So, maybe no help there.

But, I'll bet you have a plan in your head already on how to do that.

Ok, note to self...one SIXTEENTH scale. Hmmm, maybe you could find someone to sew you up some speedjeans and you can hang them on the ladders. But I already know you'll have something in mind and it will be just plain amazing to look at. This is as fun an in-progress as I've ever seen. The lighting idea sounds good, but could result in unwanted complexity. Just the same, if you go off the deep end with that, we're here for ya. (Therapy sessions, etc)

In any case, your work is mahhbelous! I was wondering about the LG as well. Got your machine shop set up?

[niart17]

Hey Pete, This may be an avenue you could look up when trying to find pilot gear. Something along this line.

http://www.wartoyz.com/page/WT/PROD/BB-18/BB21624

I know that's a heli and I haven't found any pilot figures separate yet, but I'm surely somebody makes them. From what I've read, most of the listed 1/18 scale GI joe stuff is actually closer to 1/16 so it may be worth looking in to. Just a thought.

Bill