Skull Leader Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 This isn't exactly new news either... some of the SH guys were talking about this at the Tomcat Sunset (the 1 high-vis jet per squadron) Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Sander Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Since Chappie asked - 1 high viz jet per squadron is just fine IMHO. However, for the low viz jets, I'd prefer our enlightened senior leadership find something more important to worry about. If VFA-2 wants to have low viz Langley stripes, let 'em. If squadrons want to put the air wing codes on the inside of the tails in a different font, let 'em. The "adult supervision" should consist of saying "markings on low visibility aircraft shall be FS "X"" and stop there. Two reasons behind my view - one, if my command is hemorrhaging air wing instructors to augment CENTCOM, then it's less than encouraging to see that Naval Air Forces evidently has enough spare bodies (to say nothing of money, which could be better spent on flight hours and training) running around to muddle about with this relatively trivial garbage. Two, I believe there is something to be said for unit identity and esprit de corps. If a squadron's got an artist and a hard-charging corrosion shop and can come up with something that honors their heritage and celebrates their identity without sacrificing tactical considerations, I say go for it. But then I'm a knucklehead LT with a pathological tendency to NOT tote the party line so what do I know! Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Concur... If the squadron's got some talent and they want to do it (like a couple of my helo dets) then I'm all for it as long as it doesn't permanently FUBAR the airframe. I just get frustrated here - seems like folks are more concerned about a paint scheme (disappointed is the word that really annoys me) a squadron comes up with when it is probably #372 on the list of things a squadron needs to worry about. And we all know #1 is retention and #2 is DUI's (or at least that was CNAF's current crusade when I left...). Link to post Share on other sites
VFA-103guy Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Right on Kolja! This "mandate" on the markings issue is crap. Sounds to me like the Navy is listening to Boeing again. Boeing..making lemons into lemonade since 1916.. Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Sander Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Concur...If the squadron's got some talent and they want to do it (like a couple of my helo dets) then I'm all for it as long as it doesn't permanently FUBAR the airframe. I just get frustrated here - seems like folks are more concerned about a paint scheme (disappointed is the word that really annoys me) a squadron comes up with when it is probably #372 on the list of things a squadron needs to worry about. And we all know #1 is retention and #2 is DUI's (or at least that was CNAF's current crusade when I left...). CNAF's current crusade is retention? I'd have never guessed. Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Middleton Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 I just get frustrated here - seems like folks are more concerned about a paint scheme (disappointed is the word that really annoys me) a squadron comes up with when it is probably #372 on the list of things a squadron needs to worry about. And we all know #1 is retention and #2 is DUI's (or at least that was CNAF's current crusade when I left...). Sponge, when you say "here" - as in ARC.....and the "boring grey jets" comments? <_< Link to post Share on other sites
kstater94 Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 I'm sorry that my photo stirred up so many ill feelings... <_< Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Middleton Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 I'm sorry that my photo stirred up so many ill feelings... you should be.... <_< come on John, you didn't make the regulations Link to post Share on other sites
Chris Kethan Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Since Chappie asked - 1 high viz jet per squadron is just fine IMHO.However, for the low viz jets, I'd prefer our enlightened senior leadership find something more important to worry about. If VFA-2 wants to have low viz Langley stripes, let 'em. If squadrons want to put the air wing codes on the inside of the tails in a different font, let 'em. The "adult supervision" should consist of saying "markings on low visibility aircraft shall be FS "X"" and stop there. Two reasons behind my view - one, if my command is hemorrhaging air wing instructors to augment CENTCOM, then it's less than encouraging to see that Naval Air Forces evidently has enough spare bodies (to say nothing of money, which could be better spent on flight hours and training) running around to muddle about with this relatively trivial garbage. Two, I believe there is something to be said for unit identity and esprit de corps. If a squadron's got an artist and a hard-charging corrosion shop and can come up with something that honors their heritage and celebrates their identity without sacrificing tactical considerations, I say go for it. But then I'm a knucklehead LT with a pathological tendency to NOT tote the party line so what do I know! <_< When my reserve squadron painted our colorful paint scheme, the corrosion shop did all of the painting after hours. The skipper told the MO that the project had to be done after hours, after all the corrosion gripes were completed. IIRC, the project was strictly voluntary. The whole shop volunteered - must have had pretty good Esprit De Corps. I'm with Karl on this one. There are alot bigger fish to fry in the Navy without spending so much time worrying about trivial stuff. Chris Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Sander Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 (edited) never mind - i guessed wrong :( Edited February 18, 2007 by Karl Sander Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 CNAF's current crusade is retention? I'd have never guessed. I didn't say they were succeeding :lol: But I did have to fire off a monthly spreadsheet through both of our chains with the numbers on it, and had to explain why we were lower than so-and-so. Funny part was, everyone got spooled up because we were burning out E-4's and E-5's and watching them leave after expending 20+ hours on each one pleading with them to stay, but when an O-4 and an O-3 punched, nobody even made an effort to get us to stay. $6 million in training (since I did flight school 1.7 times) walking away and nobody cared. Weird. Backs up the comments about "misplaced priorities". Sponge, when you say "here" - as in ARC.....and the "boring grey jets" comments? dry.gif Yes. I need to restate it better: Normally, there is great pride in a unit (some more than others), and the squadron takes pride in what their aircraft look like - and people will work extra on the schemes, etc., like Chis and Karl have pointed out, and really requires a lot of effort to produce something they like, or is the best they can do within the rules, which are there for various reasons (although it seems like it in time, usually the man has a nugget of wisdom buried in even the most inane seem rule). :P warning Then you read thread after thread after thread on this board stating "oh I wish they had done this" or "I don't like that shade of taupe" or "what were they thinking" or "it's B$ they can't have a Langley Stripe" or "their jets look like crap!". I am probably being oversensitive, but it strikes me as the effort the troops are doing is not appreciated. The US Navy (and USAF, USMC, USA) is not like many air forces in the world where the primary effort is to look good at airshows - they are out there in the harshest environments putting good aircraft in the air everyday without a break, and once in a while, yeah, they may only have 1 high-viz paint scheme that may look a little frumpy at times and they can't do what they want for markings because if they swap the jet out some other clowns will have to spend upteen hours hand-rubbing the langley stripes off the jet using environmentally friendly chemicals that couldn't strip cracked Al Clad off of a P-51 model let alone a $67 million jet. At times, there is more important stuff to do. To quote a two star I had (I kid you not, this was put out over the 1MC (ship's PA)) "Yeah, it sucks. Get over it". Apologize for the :( and oversensitivity on my part. Back to my 1/48 A-4AR..... Spongebob Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Middleton Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Yes. I need to restate it better: Normally, there is great pride in a unit (some more than others), and the squadron takes pride in what their aircraft look like - and people will work extra on the schemes, etc., like Chis and Karl have pointed out, and really requires a lot of effort to produce something they like, or is the best they can do within the rules, which are there for various reasons (although it seems like it in time, usually the man has a nugget of wisdom buried in even the most inane seem rule). :P warning Then you read thread after thread after thread on this board stating "oh I wish they had done this" or "I don't like that shade of taupe" or "what were they thinking" or "it's B$ they can't have a Langley Stripe" or "their jets look like crap!". I am probably being oversensitive, but it strikes me as the effort the troops are doing is not appreciated. The US Navy (and USAF, USMC, USA) is not like many air forces in the world where the primary effort is to look good at airshows - they are out there in the harshest environments putting good aircraft in the air everyday without a break, and once in a while, yeah, they may only have 1 high-viz paint scheme that may look a little frumpy at times and they can't do what they want for markings because if they swap the jet out some other clowns will have to spend upteen hours hand-rubbing the langley stripes off the jet using environmentally friendly chemicals that couldn't strip cracked Al Clad off of a P-51 model let alone a $67 million jet. At times, there is more important stuff to do. To quote a two star I had (I kid you not, this was put out over the 1MC (ship's PA)) "Yeah, it sucks. Get over it". Apologize for the :( and oversensitivity on my part. Back to my 1/48 A-4AR..... Spongebob thanks Sponge - I thought so, but you did forget a reference to a kobra. :lol: Enjoy your A-4.... Link to post Share on other sites
Waco Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 thanks Sponge - I thought so, but you did forget a reference to a kobra. And a false canopy painted onto the drooped flaps. Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 The ultimate ARC event: Chuck Norris doing a Kobra flying a Tweet adorned in Jolly Rogers markings (good ones, with the airwing code on the rudder and a langley stripe) with a Moai copilot. Dying to see that photoshopped! Spongebob Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 (edited) I'm sure the combat pilots we have here may have an explanation, but when was the last time an aircraft was shot down because it had big fuselage stripes or a colored tail band?Chappie When I got to the Scouts in 1982, I was surprised to see that the squadron had painted over their famous bright red/white lightning bolt decorated rudders with gray. I asked one of the guys about it, and was told that during an recent exercise, a Scout Viking had been engaged by a section of F-8's from the Foche and "shot down." Later, during the exercise wash up, word came out that one of the F-8 pilots had commented at debrief that they might not have even seen the Viking if it weren't for the bright red rudder. The Scout CO, upon hearing this, immediately ordered all squadron aircraft rudders painted over with gull gray. Edited February 18, 2007 by DutyCat Link to post Share on other sites
John B Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Is this thread still going on? Well, since the UNC/BC game is over and I'm not smart enough to leave well enough alone... Oh, and add in the composite components that don't take to MEK and other chemicals needed to strip paint. If anyone wants to read about the nasty properties that Methyl Ethyl Ketone have on the body, google the MSDS for it. While you're at it, look up stripping CARC (Chemical Agent R-something lost to the fog of my memory Coating) paint and all sorts of nice things pop up there, too. All that and I didn't even work with that much composite materials. Not the sort of stuff you want to work with upwind of the orphanage. This isn't exactly new news either... some of the SH guys were talking about this at the Tomcat Sunset (the 1 high-vis jet per squadron) Okay maybe I'm not communicating this effectively enough (I'm not too bright, 'member?), this is OLD news. Does anyone else remember the effects of "only 1 color jet per squadron"... ohh... 15... no... 20 years ago? Can anyone remember when the last year they saw a line of brightly colored Navy/Marine VA/VMA/VF/VFA/VMFA/VMO/HMH/HMM/HMA/HMLA/VS/VAQ/VMAQ aircraft from the same squadron parked on a flightline? 2000? 1995? 1990? 1985? 1980? that's actually been the law for, oh, 12 or 14 years now? Just don't have the Tomcat guys on their own program anymore. If you look you'll see that everyone except the Tomcats pretty much followed that. Helloooooo? Did anyone else not read this post? It was post #2 of this thread. ....Then you read thread after thread after thread on this board stating "oh I wish they had done this" or "I don't like that shade of taupe" or "what were they thinking" or "it's B$ they can't have a Langley Stripe" or "their jets look like crap!". I am probably being oversensitive, but it strikes me as the effort the troops are doing is not appreciated. The US Navy (and USAF, USMC, USA) is not like many air forces in the world where the primary effort is to look good at airshows - they are out there in the harshest environments putting good aircraft in the air everyday without a break, and once in a while, yeah, they may only have 1 high-viz paint scheme that may look a little frumpy at times and they can't do what they want for markings because if they swap the jet out some other clowns will have to spend upteen hours hand-rubbing the langley stripes off the jet using environmentally friendly chemicals that couldn't strip cracked Al Clad off of a P-51 model let alone a $67 million jet. At times, there is more important stuff to do.... Amen to that! Painting five different colors on object takes a LOT more effort than sliding a 5-color decal on a 1:48 model of the same object? Really? The ultimate ARC event:Chuck Norris doing a Kobra flying a Tweet adorned in Jolly Rogers markings (good ones, with the airwing code on the rudder and a langley stripe) with a Moai copilot. At 500ft AGL over the stadium at the Super Bowl to the Kenny Loggins' Danger Zone with twelve AIM-54s slung under the wings and PTIDS on both sides of the instrument panel while doing the puffy-cloud transonic-thing with the flaps down. :) Oh and if it seems like I'm kissing Sponge's behind on this subject, get this -> he's a former Naval Aviator on the East Coast. I'm a former enlisted Marine on the West Coast. Putting my lips to his lower cheeks gives me nothing and gets me nowhere. Break break I'm sorry that my photo stirred up so many ill feelings... :) Dude your photos don't stir up ill feelings, my mouth does. Just ask Ken. Guess I'll log off and build a model or claim to be the father of Anna Nicole's baby or give Britney Spears a new hair-do now.... Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Sander Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 ...or give Britney Spears a new hair-do now.... What, you moonlight as an NEX barber now? Link to post Share on other sites
John B Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 What, you moonlight as an NEX barber now? "Shure ting say-lor! Number 1 hi-reg, right?" Link to post Share on other sites
HokieSNFO Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 What, you moonlight as an NEX barber now? Sadly, all too well understood. Although, maybe he is in the "alternative, all natural hair gel, with extra protein (insert picture from Something About Mary)" business, in which I applaud him (good or bad, hey, she's rich!) Wearing longer hair than normal because Pensacola has fallen victim to "global warming?", Mike Link to post Share on other sites
Karl Sander Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 (edited) Sadly, all too well understood.Although, maybe he is in the "alternative, all natural hair gel, with extra protein (insert picture from Something About Mary)" business, in which I applaud him (good or bad, hey, she's rich!) Wearing longer hair than normal because Pensacola has fallen victim to "global warming?", Mike Here's the punchline to my joke, for those who didn't have this gem of a news story on their homepage Saturday morning.... Evidently someone's partied so hardy she thinks she's in "V for Vendetta"... Which perhaps has something to do with MEK. (In the interest of staying more or less on topic) Edited February 18, 2007 by Karl Sander Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Talk about a bad hair day ... Gregg Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Middleton Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 never mind - i guessed wrong :) that's why I am an ARC Mod, and you simply ride along in jets and take pictures Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Middleton Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Oh and if it seems like I'm kissing Sponge's behind on this subject, get this -> he's a former Naval Aviator on the East Coast. I'm a former enlisted Marine on the West Coast. Putting my lips to his lower cheeks gives me nothing and gets me nowhere.Break break Dude your photos don't stir up ill feelings, my mouth does. Just ask Ken. :lol::) Link to post Share on other sites
Rodney Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Oh and if it seems like I'm kissing Sponge's behind on this subject, get this -> he's a former Naval Aviator on the East Coast. I'm a former enlisted Marine on the West Coast. Putting my lips to his lower cheeks gives me nothing and gets me nowhere. Well, you're in luck. SpongeBob was a West Coast Aviator at Point Mugu. So, it "MAY" get you somewhere... Rodney Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 (edited) Okay maybe I'm not communicating this effectively enough (I'm not too bright, 'member?), this is OLD news. Does anyone else remember the effects of "only 1 color jet per squadron"... ohh... 15... no... 20 years ago? Can anyone remember when the last year they saw a line of brightly colored Navy/Marine VA/VMA/VF/VFA/VMFA/VMO/HMH/HMM/HMA/HMLA/VS/VAQ/VMAQ aircraft from the same squadron parked on a flightline? 2000? 1995? 1990? 1985? 1980? Ooh, ooh, ooh, I know, I know! How about 2005? Here's part of the Rippers' line, in all their colorful glory. All their jets were painted with hi-vis markings. Dare I say they were the last squadron to have a full line up of hi-vis markings. Edited February 18, 2007 by Darren Roberts Link to post Share on other sites
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