lgl007 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 The engines on the SU-30MK are truly unbelievable... here's a nice little vid... www.crazyaviation.com/movies/CA_SU-30.wmv ...oh my -Greg Link to post Share on other sites
Spongebob Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Hovering in mid-air makes shooting them down sooo much easier! Link to post Share on other sites
yardbird78 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Hovering in mid-air makes shooting them down sooo much easier! <_< :) :) Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Hovering in mid-air is sooo much easier when you're not burdened down with the weight of weapons. Still, an entertaining airshow display. Link to post Share on other sites
lgl007 Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Ok... so what about a comparison between the SU-30MK and the Raptor... ok so the Raptor has unchallenged anti-radar technology... that's a given... but what about maneuverability? How do you guys think the SU compares to the Raptor in that department? I think at the end of the day the Raptor is a compilation of umatched technology... but boy would such a dogfight be fun to watch :-) -Greg Link to post Share on other sites
dreammh Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Nice video. Dangerous thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Cobrahistorian Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 10...9...8....7..... Link to post Share on other sites
Keith Diamond Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Link to post Share on other sites
dreammh Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Can mods add that emo in Keith's post? <_< Link to post Share on other sites
Chappie Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) I have not watched the video yet. I mentioned this in another thread, the Su-30 v F-22 debate is going to happen sooner or later and what a day that will be on ARC. Okay, I just watched the video. What is the big damn deal about that? I've seen videos of Svetlana Kapanina doing the same type manuevers in a Su-31! And the Su-31 only has 400hp and costs a lot less rubles!! <_< I kill me. Chappie Edited February 26, 2007 by Chappie Link to post Share on other sites
Waco Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 *runs away quickly, holding both hands over mouth* Link to post Share on other sites
yardbird78 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I am definately not an expert in air to air combat, but it would seem to me that if you are in a fast, close in, tail chase then the "hit the brakes" business might be a good idea for the guy in front. If you are a mile or two or more away, it ain't gonna do him much good. An AIM-120 is going to blow his $%^ out of the sky, especially if he doesn't even know you are there. My 2 c worth. Darwin. Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I'm no expert either but it looks to be impressive maneuvering for sure and the one thing I can see that this would be very handy in is being able to point the nose of the aircraft in almost any way needed in a close in knife fight ... Again, speculation on my part as I am no paid professional in the art of ACM ... Gregg Link to post Share on other sites
janman Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Nice video! But the "conversation" after that... Just pathetic. Especially some of the comments. Su-27/30/35 etc vs. F-22 really is a topic that should not be dealt here and that's why I refuse to say anything. "Giggles and runs away"-type answers (or something like that) already contain an opinion of some kind, though it would be more mature to say it clearly and with good argumentation, just as some of the guys here tried to. Another option would be to shut up and follow the rules of this forum. Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites
Raymond Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 ah, this brings back memories of the old days! :D that emoticon rules!! Link to post Share on other sites
Chappie Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Nice video! But the "conversation" after that... Just pathetic. Especially some of the comments. Su-27/30/35 etc vs. F-22 really is a topic that should not be dealt here and that's why I refuse to say anything. "Giggles and runs away"-type answers (or something like that) already contain an opinion of some kind, though it would be more mature to say it clearly and with good argumentation, just as some of the guys here tried to. Another option would be to shut up and follow the rules of this forum. Cheers! Lighten up, Francis. Chappie Link to post Share on other sites
Les / Creative Edge Photo Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Ok, I hope some of you do not take the things I may say here too personally but here goes. I have come to expect most of us who visit this forum to be above avg. on the concept and understanding of military aviation and air combat, some here are active military pilots even fighter pilots. I still can't get over with how much some here miss the concept behind the extreme maneuverability displayed by the SU series of Flankers. These maneuvers are shown to prove that the aircraft can radically depart normal flight and sustain immense control over flight and power from engines. The Cobras, somersaults and other radical departure maneuvers are not designed to hi-lite any specific dog fighting attributes they are designed to show you that a Flanker esp. later models has immense ability to perform varied and radical maneuvers without the pilot losing control or without having the engines stall out etc. The power of the engines to quickly accelerate the Flanker out of some of these moves is to show that these are tough, superbly designed and fantastic aviation marvels. For some here to joke or laugh at these maneuvers is showing a dis-service to what an awesome combatant skilled pilots in planes like this would be to any plane in the world including F-22, and Eurofighter among others in ACM. Now I hear some of ya, "Well it's about BVR and stealth." Sure those are important facts and yes F-22 is deservingly the current bench mark on these but if you think these other aviation companies are not designing and implementing electronic suits and other aspects to greatly equal out any advantage F-22 may have at this moment then you are being foolish. The pilot who loses a battle first is usually the one who under-estimates his opponent skills and plane and over-estimates his own plane and skills. Stealth is a worthy attribute and one not to take lightly to have but it is not the be all and end all. Technology already exists to greatly reduce much of stealth's advantage. It is about engineering such into smaller more useable platforms that can take advantage of such. Now before anyone here esp. any F-22 guys gets all angry, I'm not, repeat not trying to denigrate the superb F-22. It is the current benchmark and it d*mn well should be for all it costs. What I am saying is that it's not flown by the hands of God. It's flown by men and women and as such not invulnerable to what other potential foes may have or be developing. I don't really care too much about air to air testing (as cool and interesting as these tests show) using legacy fighters the US or other western powers have. I don't care too much because you are not likely going to fight them. But is anyone here thinking Russian aviation among others is throwing in the towel and raising a white flag because the F-22 exists again would tell me that you may be foolish. Until F-22 gets in real combat with evenly skilled pilots flying the latest gen. Flankers (I hope this never happens though) any argument over who would win is moot. You can estimate and surmise what the Russian aircraft can do, you can train for what you may expect but until you go toe to toe with any of these planes like late gen. Flankers or Mig-29's you just don't know. I dare suggest and I expect that F-22 pilots treat the those skilled pilots flying in these Russian designed planes with honourable and great respect and do the same to the airplanes themselves. Sorry for my ramble and back to my points made earlier. The wild maneurves will not likely be used in ACM, but they show what kind of extreme handling and engine abilities the Flankers have and that will be an asset in ACM. Sorry I hope this post is seen to only inform from another point of view and not seen as a personal attack on any one here. I hope it is not seen as an attack on F-22 and those who fly it but seen as a point of view as to the fact that Flankers esp. late gen ones are superb aircraft too and to be respected as result. I hope this post does not lead to killing this thread but is seen only as a point of view that may open eyes or challenge thought which IMO is ok esp. if we are adults. It's ok to have a difference in opinion and express such without showing disrespect. I respect western combat pilots and their planes including and esp. the F-22. I also am mature enough to respect potential skilled pilots flying what are first rate aircraft from Sukhoi and Mikoyan too. Anyways. I just wanted to add my two cents on the maneuvers the Flanker shows in the linked video and the respect we should have to the aircraft and those who may fly it. I hope nobody is all anal and offended by my added thoughts. Peace out. Link to post Share on other sites
Chappie Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Well put, Les. And you did not have to say "pathetic" or "shut up" or anything. Chappie Link to post Share on other sites
dreammh Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) Well said Les. All I see is a video of a Su-30MK doing aerial stunts. I don't see any missile fired from it in the video. I wonder why posts about "my fighter will poon your fighter" are going around. For some here to joke or laugh at these maneuvers is showing a dis-service to what an awesome combatant skilled pilots in planes like this would be to any plane in the world including F-22, and Eurofighter among others in ACM. Back to the main point, its indeed an impressive stunt. Its about pilot skill, not just the aircraft. Maybe the pilot would like to show off in a Tweet next time. Edited February 26, 2007 by dreammh Link to post Share on other sites
janman Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Ok, I hope some of you do not take the things I may say here too personally but here goes.I have come to expect most of us who visit this forum to be above avg. on the concept and understanding of military aviation and air combat, some here are active military pilots even fighter pilots. I still can't get over with how much some here miss the concept behind the extreme maneuverability displayed by the SU series of Flankers. These maneuvers are shown to prove that the aircraft can radically depart normal flight and sustain immense control over flight and power from engines. The Cobras, somersaults and other radical departure maneuvers are not designed to hi-lite any specific dog fighting attributes they are designed to show you that a Flanker esp. later models has immense ability to perform varied and radical maneuvers without the pilot losing control or without having the engines stall out etc. The power of the engines to quickly accelerate the Flanker out of some of these moves is to show that these are tough, superbly designed and fantastic aviation marvels. For some here to joke or laugh at these maneuvers is showing a dis-service to what an awesome combatant skilled pilots in planes like this would be to any plane in the world including F-22, and Eurofighter among others in ACM. Now I hear some of ya, "Well it's about BVR and stealth." Sure those are important facts and yes F-22 is deservingly the current bench mark on these but if you think these other aviation companies are not designing and implementing electronic suits and other aspects to greatly equal out any advantage F-22 may have at this moment then you are being foolish. The pilot who loses a battle first is usually the one who under-estimates his opponent skills and plane and over-estimates his own plane and skills. Stealth is a worthy attribute and one not to take lightly to have but it is not the be all and end all. Technology already exists to greatly reduce much of stealth's advantage. It is about engineering such into smaller more useable platforms that can take advantage of such. Now before anyone here esp. any F-22 guys gets all angry, I'm not, repeat not trying to denigrate the superb F-22. It is the current benchmark and it d*mn well should be for all it costs. What I am saying is that it's not flown by the hands of God. It's flown by men and women and as such not invulnerable to what other potential foes may have or be developing. I don't really care too much about air to air testing (as cool and interesting as these tests show) using legacy fighters the US or other western powers have. I don't care too much because you are not likely going to fight them. But is anyone here thinking Russian aviation among others is throwing in the towel and raising a white flag because the F-22 exists again would tell me that you may be foolish. Until F-22 gets in real combat with evenly skilled pilots flying the latest gen. Flankers (I hope this never happens though) any argument over who would win is moot. You can estimate and surmise what the Russian aircraft can do, you can train for what you may expect but until you go toe to toe with any of these planes like late gen. Flankers or Mig-29's you just don't know. I dare suggest and I expect that F-22 pilots treat the those skilled pilots flying in these Russian designed planes with honourable and great respect and do the same to the airplanes themselves. Sorry for my ramble and back to my points made earlier. The wild maneurves will not likely be used in ACM, but they show what kind of extreme handling and engine abilities the Flankers have and that will be an asset in ACM. Sorry I hope this post is seen to only inform from another point of view and not seen as a personal attack on any one here. I hope it is not seen as an attack on F-22 and those who fly it but seen as a point of view as to the fact that Flankers esp. late gen ones are superb aircraft too and to be respected as result. I hope this post does not lead to killing this thread but is seen only as a point of view that may open eyes or challenge thought which IMO is ok esp. if we are adults. It's ok to have a difference in opinion and express such without showing disrespect. I respect western combat pilots and their planes including and esp. the F-22. I also am mature enough to respect potential skilled pilots flying what are first rate aircraft from Sukhoi and Mikoyan too. Anyways. I just wanted to add my two cents on the maneuvers the Flanker shows in the linked video and the respect we should have to the aircraft and those who may fly it. I hope nobody is all anal and offended by my added thoughts. Peace out. Well put, Les. That's what I call argumentation. And even on the exact subject. Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) Maybe the pilot would like to show off in a Tweet next time. Way too dangerous. If one to watch such a display (even a clip found online in the safety and comfort of one's own home) their head would explode due to the sheer and pure awesomenesity of the raw prowess and power of the Mighty Tweet. Set said clip to the music of Queen's "I Want It All" and you could lay waste to an entire neighborhood. 09:24 am Edit: The Tweet video becomes a full blown WMD (and banned by the UN) when set to The Cult's "She Sells Sanctuary" Edited February 26, 2007 by Trigger Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Middleton Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Until F-22 gets in real combat with evenly skilled pilots flying the latest gen. Flankers (I hope this never happens though) any argument over who would win is moot. so if a F-22 goes up against a MiG-29, or Su-30 generation jet, but the pilots are not evenly skilled, it won't "count"? combat is not supposed to be evenly matched Link to post Share on other sites
lgl007 Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 Hey guys... UMMM... I'm not really sure what to say... I'm relatively new to these forums and I had no idea this thread was going to spark so many emotions. Sorry to have stirred the proverbial hornets nest on this one. All I was really trying to get as is the maneuverability of the Raptor vs that of the SU. I guess I was just really wondering about the Raptor engines to see if they can also withstand the same arial treatment as the SU's... /shrug I did not mean to stir up such sensitivities ;-) -Greg Link to post Share on other sites
Keith Diamond Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) :) Watch the PBJ banana lead a dance formation of thread locks Way too dangerous. If one to watch such a display (even a clip found online in the safety and comfort of one's own home) their head would explode due to the sheer and pure awesomenesity of the raw prowess and power of the Mighty Tweet. If the "sheer and pure awesomenesity of the raw prowess and power" of the Tweet didn't cause your head to explode, the sound of that flying dogwhistle sure would! "Some pilots will tell you that you don't need earplugs when you have your helmet on, but they're the ones who've already lost their hearing." - Tweet pilot Edited February 26, 2007 by Keith Diamond Link to post Share on other sites
janman Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Guys, you seem to have a severe fixation on Tweets... But the Tweet wasn't the topic here. Once again it wasn't and still you keep bringing it up. Link to post Share on other sites
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