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MC-130E & H, Combat Talons


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Well, to be honest the decals on the MC-130 are pretty caveman simple, just a tail code, national insignia, and a few numbers. Accordingly, I've downloaded the proper USAF font for such things and am giving "make your own" decals a spin. I plan on doing it in euro I camo, but one of the FS colors officially listed is gunship gray, which seems too dark in my opinion. Any suggestions for a proper FS color, other than lightening it with some white and fudging it? I know the real birds look all kinds of splotchy with 4 or 5 shades of gray.

No worries on the extras. The wealth of stuff you sent me plus all the info I've collected will assure all the little things get where they need to be. :woot.gif:

Edited by Dez
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Dez...36118 (Gunship Gray) would weather very fast on the 130. Out in the Pacific and at Hurlburt Field the sun would fade that gray paint to almost a chalk white. You could lighten it up with some white and then do some "touch up" work around the troop doors or spot paint a engine panel.

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I kinda figured that might be the case, but when I used to ride around in euro I camo'd hercs the gray seemed to be lighter in general than gunship gray. I only say that because the underside wouldn't weather the same as more exposed areas, and that seemed lighter too.

But, I ought to have fun doing the patchy weathered paint job. Were there any places in particular on the airframe (besides what you mentioned) that were repainted more often?

Another question for you: On some pictures I've seen a skeletal crow painted on the side, but only on the gray painted aircraft. My pictures of euro I painted planes are understandably few and far between, so I've never seen it on them. Was it ever on the green planes? I'm just looking for something besides a few non-descript numbers and letters to jazz it up a bit.

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Oh yeah, I should have some pictures of the resin copies I made of the refueling pod and the other fuel tank up tonight or tomorrow depending on how the training schedule runs here at work.

Edited by Dez
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Another question for you: On some pictures I've seen a skeletal crow painted on the side, but only on the gray painted aircraft. My pictures of euro I painted planes are understandably few and far between, so I've never seen it on them. Was it ever on the green planes? I'm just looking for something besides a few non-descript numbers and letters to jazz it up a bit.

I've never seen the blackbird on any of the euro I birds. Of course the euro I scheme hasn't been used on the Talon I's in quite some time. For something different, I've seen one of euro I talons with the sharksmouth. I didn't like it, but some might.

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Thanks for the info, umgriz. Oh well, I guess I'll do without the blackbird then. The euro I scheme is so much more eye catching (model-wise) than the 2-tone gray they use now and my mind is set on it.

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I like the sharkmouth! Unfortunately the only pictures I currently have here on my computer are those of a Flightsimulator repaint a friend of mine did for me:

Sharky3.jpg

EGUN4.jpg

I think I have some pictures of the real thing at my computer at home...

HAJO

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None of the Euro I Talon Is had the skeleton "Stray Goose". They didn't get any noseart until the first (64-0565) came back from Mod-90 and it had the Phoenix/Guts to Try graphic.

I heard that some of the 1st SOS Talons did have some noseart while in Kadena, but but the time we got them, it was gone.

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Dez...The T1 with the sharkmouth was the P-46 test airplane that was at Edwards for the heavyweight Fulton recovery operation. It didn't work out to well...the heavier lift line crushed the radome and did some damage to the airplane. The airplane with the "Guts To Try" emblem on it was the first Mod 90 airplane which was also the airplane that was heavily damaged during the Desert One Iran hostage raid. The airplane with the skelaton bird was a Terradactile showing that these were old 1964 birds that were still around flying. As you know...nose art on a SOF airplane is very rare and would be removed before a real operation. Most airplanes now carry their warrior nose art inside the cargo compartment at Fuselage Station 245 on the cover for a power distribution box or on the cover of the cheek rack on the forward right side in the cargo compartment. There are a couple of T2's here at Kirtland that have their art and mission markers in lightning bolts (quick strike) in the cargo compartment. If you know what your looking for underneath you can find a patch panel over a bullet hole from one of those missions from the war on terror.

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None of the Euro I Talon Is had the skeleton "Stray Goose". They didn't get any noseart until the first (64-0565) came back from Mod-90 and it had the Phoenix/Guts to Try graphic.

I heard that some of the 1st SOS Talons did have some noseart while in Kadena, but but the time we got them, it was gone.

So were there any mod 90 birds that retained the euro I scheme, even for a little while after the refit? I've been informed that they all got the new gray paint scheme with the refit.

Unfortunately the picture references out there for pre mod 90 aircraft are pretty sparse, and "walkarounds" are non-existent. What few I have are from a variety of aircraft and a variety of time frames.

Edited by Dez
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Dez...The T1 with the sharkmouth was the P-46 test airplane that was at Edwards for the heavyweight Fulton recovery operation. It didn't work out to well...the heavier lift line crushed the radome and did some damage to the airplane. The airplane with the "Guts To Try" emblem on it was the first Mod 90 airplane which was also the airplane that was heavily damaged during the Desert One Iran hostage raid. The airplane with the skelaton bird was a Terradactile showing that these were old 1964 birds that were still around flying. As you know...nose art on a SOF airplane is very rare and would be removed before a real operation. Most airplanes now carry their warrior nose art inside the cargo compartment at Fuselage Station 245 on the cover for a power distribution box or on the cover of the cheek rack on the forward right side in the cargo compartment. There are a couple of T2's here at Kirtland that have their art and mission markers in lightning bolts (quick strike) in the cargo compartment. If you know what your looking for underneath you can find a patch panel over a bullet hole from one of those missions from the war on terror.

I kinda figured that was the case with SOF nose art. Plenty of my pics show any markings like that painted over in a hasty fashion.

Oh well.

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That is correct...as the airplanes rotated through LAS-Ontario for the MOD-90 upgrade after all the work was done they got the 2 tone "Shamu" paint job. The new MC-130J will come off the assembly line in the single color gray paint and as that wears they will be repainted in the 2 tone paint. It is a very effective paint job...blacked out and flying over at night the light gray paint blends very well with the night sky. I know what I'm looking for and I have a hard time seeing the airplane at night!!

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As you know...nose art on a SOF airplane is very rare and would be removed before a real operation.

That is not entirely accurate. During the first months of OEF and OIF, nearly all markings were scrubbed (except for the tail number). However, now....different story. Sometimes, they don't even take the crew chiefs names off. And the blackbird is almost never removed from those airplanes that have it.

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So were there any mod 90 birds that retained the euro I scheme, even for a little while after the refit? I've been informed that they all got the new gray paint scheme with the refit.

Unfortunately the picture references out there for pre mod 90 aircraft are pretty sparse, and "walkarounds" are non-existent. What few I have are from a variety of aircraft and a variety of time frames.

AirCommando130 already said, but no, most were in the current grey scheme as they came back from California.

Only 565 and 567 arrived to the 8th with the reverse scheme, where the majority of the aircraft was painted lt grey, with dark grey up top.

64-0565 Reverse scheme

567 didn't even have the A/R pods for the longest time after it came to us. We flew it out to Utah for BLU-82 drops about 2 weeks after it got to Hurlburt. The pilots loved it because it didn't have the usual drag.

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AirCommando130 already said, but no, most were in the current grey scheme as they came back from California.

Only 565 and 567 arrived to the 8th with the reverse scheme, where the majority of the aircraft was painted lt grey, with dark grey up top.

64-0565 Reverse scheme

567 didn't even have the A/R pods for the longest time after it came to us. We flew it out to Utah for BLU-82 drops about 2 weeks after it got to Hurlburt. The pilots loved it because it didn't have the usual drag.

That's an odd looking scheme. I wonder why they did those two that way?

At any rate, I think I'm going to have to forsake hairsplitting accuracy and exercise a little dramatic license when I do up the euro I paint job. But then again the prospect of doing a super heavily weathered gray is starting to appeal to me.

Decisions decisions! :salute:

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Ok, I guess I'll do the weathered gray version. At least that way I can put the skeletal blackbird on there.

Does anyone have any tips on how to weather an aircraft in such an extreme fashion? Here is the look I'm going for:

link

I suppose I'll have to let my euro I paint bug rest until I get started on an MC-130H...

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Here's a pic of my resin copies of the AR pod and fuel tank. The copy of the AR pod is on the left and the copy of the fuel tank is on the right.

PICT0007.jpg

I've had horrible problems with bubbles in the castings (as you can see with the unprimed fuel tank), but my friend has informed me it's the resin I'm using and not how I'm doing it. That was a relief as I thought I was screwing up somehow... time to get a different resin I suppose, though it worked out well enough for this attempt.

Edited by Dez
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Dez...Like I said, that gunship gray faded to a chalk white pretty quick out there in the Pacific. I'd mix a few shades of 36118 and keep track of how much white you added. Darker on the sides and lighten it up as you get to the top. Around the engines will still be dark from engine oil and the fuel cell access panels will probably be outlined in fresh paint for corrosion control. The underside of the wing will be stained pretty good in the exhaust areas...when we swapped over from JP-4 the new fuel really left a lot of soot under the wing and in the air it left a pretty good smoke trail...like an F-4. In the high salt enviroment the maintenance folks would spot paint any area that the paint chipped to stop corrosion. When we'd land we'd taxi through the fresh water rinse...that was always fun unless you had bad seals on the overhead hatches...then you'd get soaked in the airplane.

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This is what I'm looking to do, but since it'll still have the fulton system it won't be an AFRC aircraft.

pic555.jpg

I take it there's a lot of salt weathering too down there in Florida.

Edited by Dez
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This is what I'm looking to do, but since it'll still have the fulton system it won't be an AFRC aircraft.

pic555.jpg

I take it there's a lot of salt weathering too down there in Florida.

Salt and sun. It's amazing how fast a freshly painted 36118 quickly looks like a white-ish gray after a couple of weeks.

Good luck replicating that....it's something I've never been able to get right.

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That is an excellant picture of how that paint fades. Notice the dark paint on the tail and then how it's almost white near the base and just about the whole top is white. You can cut some very thin strips of tape to keep the dark lines on the tail and some very, very thin strips to make the lines around the rear fuselage...there are rows and rows of rivets back there to beef up the back end. Believe me...there are overlapping sheets of skin and tons of big heavy rivets...remember this is 1953 technology that is still coming off the assembly line as a C-130J!! The inside is way different but the outside is still the old "heavy hauler" Hercules. I'm going to build mine in the old TAC black and green paint with the Fulton whiskers and fouling lines...no MOD 90 or refueling pods. Combat Talon...The early days for me. If you need any info for your MH-53J...I work with a guy who is a retired 53 gunner and a few of the CV-22 guys are former 53 pilots and flight engineers. That can be your Euro 1 paint job you want to do!

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Salt and sun. It's amazing how fast a freshly painted 36118 quickly looks like a white-ish gray after a couple of weeks.

Good luck replicating that....it's something I've never been able to get right.

I've seen a few threads on here about how to do salt weathering and they've given me some ideas. I'll do the major fading with the airbrush, but the streaking and such I'll do with pastels, and I'll experiment with a wash or two. The couple of initial attempts on spare sheet styrene show a lot of promise. I'll fiddle with it to get it right, and hopefully it'll work out.

That is an excellant picture of how that paint fades. Notice the dark paint on the tail and then how it's almost white near the base and just about the whole top is white. You can cut some very thin strips of tape to keep the dark lines on the tail and some very, very thin strips to make the lines around the rear fuselage...there are rows and rows of rivets back there to beef up the back end. Believe me...there are overlapping sheets of skin and tons of big heavy rivets...remember this is 1953 technology that is still coming off the assembly line as a C-130J!! The inside is way different but the outside is still the old "heavy hauler" Hercules. I'm going to build mine in the old TAC black and green paint with the Fulton whiskers and fouling lines...no MOD 90 or refueling pods. Combat Talon...The early days for me. If you need any info for your MH-53J...I work with a guy who is a retired 53 gunner and a few of the CV-22 guys are former 53 pilots and flight engineers. That can be your Euro 1 paint job you want to do!

The rivets... ugh. I think I've found a away around that. I've heard good things about archer fine transfers dry transfer rivets and I'm probably going to need 3 sheets or more for the rear end. We'll see how that goes. I have a rivet wheel but am not satisfied with the results.

Amazing that the 1950s level of technology (at least for the simple things) still holds on. But hey, it works, right?

I'm anxious to see what you turn out with the early talon. Hey... maybe we start up a SOF group build? Hmmmm. That could be one interesting little sub-forum. I'll definitely stay in touch about the MH-53J. What I sorely lack are picture references of euro I painted birds. Honestly, what the hell did we do before digital cameras and the internet came along? I shudder to think of how difficult all this would be without those.

At any rate, doing this weathering/paintjob right is going to be the painful cherry on top of one long torturous project. :wacko: :lol:

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