Japan still wants the F-22

[BAM'n'IVM]

Here's the link:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/sto...y%20Wish%20List

OK, I know this is a huge can o'worms, especially for some ARC members. Let's keep it civil, and if you don't have anything of value to add (and bashing a particular airframe, country, or socio-political system counts as "nothing of value) then please refrain from posting.

OK, discuss amongst yourselves. Play nice. If it starts going downhill, I'll ask the admins to delete this thing and I'll disavow any knowledge of it. :lol:

Edited April 27, 2007 by BAM'n'IVM

[MickeyThickey]

I want an F-22, too. Doesn't mean I'll get one.

No real can of worms.

[klawrence]

My $.02: sell the F-22 to Japan and Australia. I think we may need all the help we can get in the Pacific. I would maintain production in the US though for security.

[GreyGhost]

I hear Isreal is also starting the "Pretty Please" deal ...

Gregg

[Aggressor Supporter]

I want an F-22, too. Doesn't mean I'll get one.

:lol:

[Ironhead]

I rather keep the IP here in the states.

IP = Intellectual Property

No disrespect to the other countries.

[David Walker]

I wish them luck.

[Vesper]

It's always been my opinion that since we invented the modern stealth A/C, that we should keep it in our hands and no one elses. No disrespect to our allies, but I compare our advances in stealth tech. to the Football that goes around w/t President or the security card that gets you into the most inner circles of the Pentagon/CIA headquarters/NSA headquarters. We went thru the hardship of inventing this beasty, why should we make it easier for others to obtain it's secrets?

But when does the JCS or the Pentagon listen to a Junior Aviation major who washes KingAirs & Citations for beer money, eh?

Ves

[Spongebob]

Not gonna happen.

[Trigger]

Not gonna happen.

Oh, I don't know about that. If Canada's willing to pay to set up some franchises, then the only problem I could foresee would be how much of a cut the NFL demands.

Edited April 27, 2007 by Trigger

[Dave Williams]

I firmly believe that advanced technology stealth aircraft like the F-22, B-2, even the F-117 whould not be exported outside of the US. You are more at of risk losing control of the technology and having if fall into the wrong hands.

[Chappie]

I firmly believe that advanced technology stealth aircraft like the F-22, B-2, even the F-117 whould not be exported outside of the US. You are more at of risk losing control of the technology and having if fall into the wrong hands.

Although if we were going to sell the 22 to anyone I personally would be okay with Israel, UK, Austraila, and Japan. But when it comes to sensitive material, we sometimes have problems with spies stealing secrets from right here in the States.

I agree with most here we need to keep this fighter to ourselves. Our allies can still benefit from the aircraft though, if Japan were attacked some time in the future I'm sure PACAF F-22s would be in the fight. Another thing we need is for Washington to buy more Raptors!! I don't know what the current figure is but less than 200 is unexceptable in my book.

Now the F-35? That baby will be a big seller among our allies I'm sure....F-35K, F-35J, CF-355, F-35I, etc....

Chappie

Edited April 27, 2007 by Chappie

[BAM'n'IVM]

I firmly believe that advanced technology stealth aircraft like the F-22, B-2, even the F-117 whould not be exported outside of the US. You are more at of risk losing control of the technology and having if fall into the wrong hands.

Great Britain was a partner in development of the F-117, and there were proposals to sell them to the RAF. It's not that we shouldn't export the technology, its that we should be very selective about who we export it to.

Remember, "Not gonna happen" and "too advanced, too new, we gotta keep this technology here" is what they said about Japanese F-4s and then, a few years later, about Japanese F-15s. The Japanese got both when we weren't sharing 'em with anyone. I don't know how I feel about exporting F-22's, but I do know that if the Japanese government decides they have to have them, there's a good chance it could happen. Right now, from the tone of the article, it seems that the Japanese have decided they'd like to have them.

[Dave Williams]

You never know what friend now isn't going to be a friend in the future. I'm sure the Soviet Union wasn't happy when the Iron Curtain fell and advanced (at the time) fighters like the MiG-29 became freely avialbe to the West for evaluation. Also, there is the issue of what happened to Iran and the F-14s.

As noted, technology can be compromised in the US, but adding more locations for the technology to be available just makes it easier for potential enemies.

I just think there are some things we need to keep for ourselves only. I'm sure the big driver for wanting to sell things like this to other countries is money. More money for the defense contractor, plus a reduction in unit price for US purchases. However, I don't think we should let money override US national security concerns.

My two cents.

[Chappie]

I think I heard that the Japanese PM is coming to the US and will meet with Bush at Camp David. Wonder if this subject will come up?

Chappie

[B-1 Nut]

I think that some "secrets" are best kept here. I have no problem sharing technology with allies......just not all technology. We have a lot of good, and more-than-likely, permanent allies...but we should always err or the side of caution. I personally agree with some of the above posts as far as who our true allies are, but my concern is not "would our allies use our technology against us", but "would the bad guys capture/spy it somehow and eventually use it against us".

Many relationships that we once had with countries have deteriorated or are on thin ice. Unfortunately America is so villainized over seas that any of these fraying ends could snap at any moment. History has shown that all you have to do is tick off the wrong guy and you'll find yourself staring down the business end of a really big gun.

[Spruemeister]

Here's the deal. WE get a new 1/48 Raptor from Japan before THEY ever get a full size version from us. To sweeten the deal, we'll throw in a player to be named later. Canada can have the Detroit Lions.

[Chappie]

Here's the deal. WE get a new 1/48 Raptor from Japan before THEY ever get a full size version from us.

Ding! Ding! Ding! :) :) That is offically "The ARC Funniest Statement of the Week"!!

Excellent.

Chappie

[Aggressor Supporter]

Here's the deal. WE get a new 1/48 Raptor from Japan before THEY ever get a full size version from us.

:huh: Agree with Chappie. Hilarious!

[David Walker]

Canada can have the Detroit Lions.

My word, what do you have against Canada!?

[Will7813]

I want an F-22, too. Doesn't mean I'll get one.

No real can of worms.

So true!

In all seriousness though, I think (yes I am an Aussie and would like to see F-22s with roundells on them!)

it would be a good idea to sell the F-22 to the US's close allies, nameley the UK and Aus, and probably Japan. Yes, you run the risk of exposing the technology, but (as far as I know, unless there was a change of plans!) the USAF has F-22s in Japan at the moment. What makes you think they are safer deployed there for non-combat missions with US pilots + mechanics + and ground staff than they are there with Japanese pilots etc. Also in the long term, other nations will inevitably develop Stealth, and if this nation happens to be Russia (no personal offence any Russians out there), every man and his Dog will have a Stealth Plane.

You also have to look at it operationally, if you do not allow your allies the technology (if they want it), and they end up with inferior technology and capability (the JSF), then you will probably end up having to stretch forces further to assist them in a major conflict (if the US holds strong with its allies, which I hope it will) because they cannot hold there own against superior aircraft that are coming.

Just my opinion

Will

[janman]

So true!

In all seriousness though, I think (yes I am an Aussie and would like to see F-22s with roundells on them!)

it would be a good idea to sell the F-22 to the US's close allies, nameley the UK and Aus, and probably Japan. Yes, you run the risk of exposing the technology, but (as far as I know, unless there was a change of plans!) the USAF has F-22s in Japan at the moment. What makes you think they are safer deployed there for non-combat missions with US pilots + mechanics + and ground staff than they are there with Japanese pilots etc. Also in the long term, other nations will inevitably develop Stealth, and if this nation happens to be Russia (no personal offence any Russians out there), every man and his Dog will have a Stealth Plane.

You also have to look at it operationally, if you do not allow your allies the technology (if they want it), and they end up with inferior technology and capability (the JSF), then you will probably end up having to stretch forces further to assist them in a major conflict (if the US holds strong with its allies, which I hope it will) because they cannot hold there own against superior aircraft that are coming.

Just my opinion

Will

Some good points there.

Every technology becomes mature and ceases to be the cutting edge. If and when the Russians get their stealth planes to the air and probably Chinese and other nations some day as well, the F-22 woulnd't necessarily be anymore the state of the art fighter. F-15 was that one day, but it isn't anymore. Came Flanker, came also Raptor. Why wouldn't you export it then? Never say never.

The fact that the US wants to retain it for themselves at this moment is very logical as noone else is possessing that kind of technology.

[Scooby]

If we let them have the F-22, the next thing ya know, Canada will want football.....

We've had football allot longer that you guys have. The Grey Cup is nearly 100 years old. How old is the Super Bore?

[Trigger]

I'm suddenly reminded of a funny scene from Guy Ritchie's 2000 movie, "Sn@tch"

"I don't like leaving my own country, Doug, and I especially don't like leaving it for anything less then warm sandy beaches, and cocktails with little straw hats."

"We've got sandy beaches..."

"So? Who the **** wants to see 'em?"

Edited April 28, 2007 by Trigger

[BAM'n'IVM]

We've had football allot longer that you guys have. The Grey Cup is nearly 100 years old. How old is the Super Bore?

The Super Bowl is not as old as pro football. Judging the age of the game by how many Super Bowls there have been is like trying to figure out how old television broadcasting is by how many seasons of The Simpsons there have been.