P-38 guy Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 Dayton and Cleveland you can bring ice packs but no loose ice. You can bring in drinks and food but you can't have a cooler. Food has to be in something clear. When I have taken drinks in I froze them the night before and they stay frozen about half the day. Mike Link to post Share on other sites
Raymond Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 (edited) Imagine the amount of terror product you could stuff in a pair of those! "my pants already contain a terror product" :D tee hee hee :blink: Edited July 8, 2007 by Raymond Link to post Share on other sites
P-38 guy Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 "my pants already contain a terror product" :Dtee hee hee :D You know what they say about the guys that brag.... :blink: :lol: Mike Link to post Share on other sites
Julien (UK) Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 (edited) You know what this type of thing really bugs the hell out of me. Don't people realise that by doing this we are letting the terrorists win. If they are stopping people bringing in drink then they should at least supply free water or do they expect you to buy it at high prices?? I mean here in the UK they are now stopping you dropping your freinds and family at the door of the Airport in response to the lastes attack. The terrorists have already moved on to planning whats next, this only inconviences normal people. I should be building a model! over. Julien Edited July 8, 2007 by Julien (UK) Link to post Share on other sites
ipms33206 Posted July 8, 2007 Author Share Posted July 8, 2007 I agree 100%!!!! The terrorists know that after an attack or threat, the 'authorities' will change rules to inconvenience the general population. At the airshow, no water is provided. You have to buy it and food at highly elevated prices. Most of the food and beverages are donated by the local buisinesses. (Mine included) Then they are sold by 'non-profit organizations'. Link to post Share on other sites
Nergol Posted July 8, 2007 Share Posted July 8, 2007 (edited) I remember the old Wings of Eagles airshows in the 80s (when they were held at the grass strip at Geneseo) - no cordons, no ropes, no security; nothin'. You could walk right up to any airplane there, touch it, inspect it, thump the fabric, camp out under the wing - anything short of putting a screwdriver through the skin was fine. Yes, it's true that Geneseo tended to be something of a "conoisseur's" air show - it was far enough out of the way and hard enough to get to that it tended to be the hard core airplane nuts that showed up, leading to a very respectful and easygoing crowd. Still, I doubt you'd see anything of the like nowadays. The best airshow experience ever was the year the Canadian Lancaster showed up at Geneseo. The Canadians even showed up in vintage uniforms - including the girls at their information table, smartly dressed in period uniforms right down to the stockings with seams up the back. There was just something great about seeing the Lanc take off and land on grass, and the formation flyby it did with a B-17 and B-24 was fantastic... Edited July 8, 2007 by Nergol Link to post Share on other sites
Vesper Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 This year has been one of the more laxer security times I've seen at the Barksdale show. Chairs has to be out of their bags, but you could take the bag in with ya. Still had the no big bag/cooler rule, but the pen rule seems to have been dropped ( I didnt chance it thought). I agree about the concession prices, $4 for a 20oz water SUCKS! Ves Link to post Share on other sites
mhoupt Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 would you rather be next to no restrictions and some idiot smuggle something in a kill a couple hundred people? True, it's a pain sometimes, but if you think ahead, there should be no problems. Just remember the world has changed and the USA has become a target. YES! When our country was founded there was a saying, that happens to be still on one states license plate "Live Free or die". I lived in the UK back in the mid-eighties when their country was a target by not only mid-east terrorism but also home grown stuff from N Ireland and these kinds of restrictions were not in place. Sorry, but the terrorists won on 9/11 when we were willing to give up our freedoms and liberties to "protect us" from them. The fact is they are over in Pakistan or Iraq right now laughing up a storm at how they have changed OUR world to THEIR liking. Link to post Share on other sites
Zmey Smirnoff Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 The fact is they are over in Pakistan or Iraq right now laughing up a storm at how they have changed OUR world to THEIR liking. I think you are over-reacting. Prohibiting coolers at an airshow is a wee bit short of terrorists' ultimate goal. This thread has clearly shown that every airshow is different and so are the security regulations...as well as prices and availability of free water. Sure good old days where there were no security, no restrictions, no seatbelts, no organic food and no lawsuits, but plenty of second-hand smoke, asbestos and lead paint are gone. But now we have ze Raptor! Airshows are voluntary events. Security restrictions are clearly posted days in advance. If its too much of a burden... ths pics from the airshow will be here or on a.net in few days anyway. Besides, who wants to drink water anyway when there is so much beer!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I've gone to the Offutt show for several years and that usually has included one camera bag with no hassle problems. As for water, what I do before I enter is drink at least one and sometimes two bottles of water before I get out of the car to walk up to the checkpoint to be searched (be it shuttle bus or on base). Then I prestage a couple bottles of water in the car for when I get done with the show and come back. This way, I usually may only need to acquire one bottle of water on site at the show. Then while in there, I stay away from the cola products or whatever has caffine in order to keep from urinating my fluids back out. Since I don't like the taste of soft water all that much (it has to be hard Nebraska water with all its minerals baby!), then I get a lemonade if I don't get a water since lemonade has no caffine in it. That usually keeps dehydration problems to a minimum in my case. Also, sometimes if they have a water buffalo trailer on site, you can get a bottled water, drink it down and then keep the empty bottle to fill at one of these, a mist curtain station or a drinking fountain. That helps as well. By not lugging a lot of stuff, you also don't exert yourself as much and potentially have a little lower need for water (based on a lot of factors in terms of physical shape and build). I personally like to travel light. If I need to sit down, I pick a stretch of tarmac (sometimes in the shade) to get off my feet for five or ten minutes. In otherwords, there is more then one way to make your airshow budget cheaper. But if you don't like to be in hock for a $2.00 bottle of water, then just think about how much gas you burn getting there. If you park offsite and use a shuttle bus to get on base. You can potentially save the fuel money as well since idling in the long line of cars to go home after with the AC running full blast can cost more anyway. If you ride a shuttle bus, they can get you out quicker (as they typically go through a different entry gate) and the line at the parking lot where you boarded the bus isn't bad at all. Another advantage of the bus is that in a few cases the security checkpoint is at the shuttle bus boarding site. So if you do need to leave something in your car, the walk back to it is MUCH shorter (and so is the wait in line). But I typically haven't had a problem with my small camera bag and one camera at all (and I can strap it to my belt like a pack once I am inside and cleared by security). An Airshow is still one of the least expensive full days of entertainment a person can experience these days. One just needs to find creative ways to do it is all. Link to post Share on other sites
CRASCA Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 You can always spare yourself the trouble and inconvienience of going to the airshows by simply subscribing to our magazine! We cover MANY airshows every year plus museums and base visits with outstanding articles and beautiful photographs....all for about the price of 1 airshow ticket, parking fee, and a bottle of water. 12 issues a year Baby! and IN THE COMFORT OF YOUR OWN HOME!! Sorry - couldn't resist the oppurtunity for a free plug!! Craig Link to post Share on other sites
ipms33206 Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 I am working on ways to get around the huge cost and security screens. But, this is the only show I have been able to get to in 6 years! There are none that are very close to me at all. Fairchild is 7 hours, Hill about 8 hours and South Dakota about 9 hours. So, getting to this one show is important. I just wish that a few people wouldn't make it so hard for aircarft nuts like me to go to a show. I already know of 5 people who I was going to go with that have backed out due to all the crap. The cost went up this year too; $15 presale and $20 at the gate! Link to post Share on other sites
The Rat Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Let's not forget another bit of gouging that 9/11 provided an excuse for - insurance. The rates for airshows went sky-high, and some shows simply went under. As if the two are in any way connected. Oh yeah, they've both got aircraft, so let's make 'em pay through the nose! Link to post Share on other sites
siesta3 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I am working on ways to get around the huge cost and security screens. But, this is the only show I have been able to get to in 6 years! There are none that are very close to me at all. Fairchild is 7 hours, Hill about 8 hours and South Dakota about 9 hours. So, getting to this one show is important. I just wish that a few people wouldn't make it so hard for aircarft nuts like me to go to a show. I already know of 5 people who I was going to go with that have backed out due to all the crap. The cost went up this year too; $15 presale and $20 at the gate! I really don't understand - it's an airshow .. if theres a problem why not take it up with the Airshow commitee that sets all these rules months in advance - tell them they are violating Montana Law! I can remember they did searching at the MacDill Airshow a couple years before 9-11. If it's so important to you why not just go and get it over with! Not to be so facscious but what makes it so that you want to bypass security????? I been on different ends of the airshow circuit.. planner, spectator, press, and aircrew ... I'm just rolling my eyes! Once you get past the gate ENJOY it! Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I am working on ways to get around the huge cost and security screens. But, this is the only show I have been able to get to in 6 years! There are none that are very close to me at all. Fairchild is 7 hours, Hill about 8 hours and South Dakota about 9 hours. So, getting to this one show is important. I just wish that a few people wouldn't make it so hard for aircarft nuts like me to go to a show. I already know of 5 people who I was going to go with that have backed out due to all the crap. The cost went up this year too; $15 presale and $20 at the gate! Considering Bozeman is in a state with the lowest population density of all the USA, I am not surprised about the charges frankly (I was there in March selling my airplane to a guy just north of Bozeman, Townsend lake I think it was). Link to post Share on other sites
ipms33206 Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 Unfortunately the airshow is run by the Chamber of Commerce. And unless you are a member, you are not allowed to comment in any of their committees. The members with the money are the ones that are listened to. Link to post Share on other sites
Chappie Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 My wife and I always attend the show at Andrews and sometimes Oceana. Security is about the same at both shows- check our fold-up chairs, look in the camera bag and fanny pack- Good To Go. My biggest gripes about airshows these days is--- The vendors up near the showline. Put those sumbitches waay in the back! Those mutha f---ing jumbotrons! I've been going to airshows ever since I was 5 or 6 years old and I got along just fine without videos from the cockpit and commericals or whatever! All the crap at and around show center! Bleachers, tents, previously mentioned jumbotrons, carnival bungee things, speakers every f--king-where, 18-wheelers containing simulators, support for the jet vehicles, etc, etc,etc. Keep rental cars off the flightline! I have a great picture of a taxiing Thunderbirds T-33 with the Team's F-16s in the background. But it is ruined by the teams rentals vans parked next the the F-16s!!! :D Keep the showline clear of clutter so we can see and photograph the airplanes!!! Whew. Okay. Calm. Calm. Chappie Link to post Share on other sites
kitnut617 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 YES! When our country was founded there was a saying, that happens to be still on one states license plate "Live Free or die". I lived in the UK back in the mid-eighties when their country was a target by not only mid-east terrorism but also home grown stuff from N Ireland and these kinds of restrictions were not in place. Sorry, but the terrorists won on 9/11 when we were willing to give up our freedoms and liberties to "protect us" from them. The fact is they are over in Pakistan or Iraq right now laughing up a storm at how they have changed OUR world to THEIR liking. I'd have to agree here, as I'm from the UK and growing up during the 60's when the Northern Ireland problem blew up (pun intended) then aircraft hijackings etc. through the 70's/80's there wasn't all this 'security' during that time and the problem was just as bad if not worse. But then 9/11 happened and not to take anything away from the events that happened that day, not long after these security measures were introduced. I don't see the difference between what happened that day to the previous 30 or more years before that, and there wasn't a squeak from the USA during all that time. In 1973 I can remember the aircraft I was traveling on to Germany, was escorted to the runway at Heathrow by an armoured personel carrier (every aircraft was at that time) because of hijackings. Every railway station and bus station had warnings about leaving un-attended bags or packages too. This was 'normal' life during those days. Still is today. But it's not just airshows, numerous people (some who might be here) are plane spotters ( a hobby which parallels ours in popularity) and airports and airfields have all used this excuse to shut down viewing areas where these guys can watch and take photos and record aircraft movements etc. Link to post Share on other sites
RipVW Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Instead of all this venting just do what I always do when confronted with our scared new world . . . Face the East and say "Thank You Osama!" Really . . . I do . . . Oh please, please, please understand my sarcasm here . . . . Link to post Share on other sites
kenlilly106 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Two things: 1 - Make the rules consistent, plan for the effects of the rules, and enforce them, I went to 4 airshows last year, and here's what happened: Langley AFB - Standard limitations and banned items list (no large bags, coolers, pets, weapons, etc.) Everyone had to go through a metal detector, all bags were searched, very efficient operation, everyone was super nice and polite and it took a max of 5 minutes to get through. Had a bottle of water in my camera bag and one in my hip pocket, took both in. Pittsburgh Airport - Standard banned/excluded list, bags were searched by CAP cadets, took a while to get through due to this and the layout of the entrance area, I was let in with my water and the food in my bag. Oceana NAS - Standard banned/excluded list, bags/persons were not searched when I was there early Saturday morning, but I had to surrender 2 bottles of water. Seymour Johnson AFB - Standard banned/excluded list, it was set up that everyone had to go through a metal detector and have their bags searched, but the crowd got very big at the entrance and they ended up waving most people through, the previous year they searched every bag and all went through the detector, very smooth and quick. I had a bottle of water and was let in with it. 2 - If water/non-alcoholic drinks and food are prohibited, then low-cost alternatives must be provided. No more $3+ half liter bottles of water, $5 pretzels and $4 Dove bars. I learned to fill up with a high protein breakfast so I stayed full a better part of the day, and I drank mostly lemonade during the day, still ended up spending about $20 on drinks during the day. Ken Link to post Share on other sites
P-38 guy Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 My wife and I always attend the show at Andrews and sometimes Oceana. Security is about the same at both shows- check our fold-up chairs, look in the camera bag and fanny pack- Good To Go.My biggest gripes about airshows these days is--- The vendors up near the showline. Put those sumbitches waay in the back! Those mutha f---ing jumbotrons! I've been going to airshows ever since I was 5 or 6 years old and I got along just fine without videos from the cockpit and commericals or whatever! All the crap at and around show center! Bleachers, tents, previously mentioned jumbotrons, carnival bungee things, speakers every f--king-where, 18-wheelers containing simulators, support for the jet vehicles, etc, etc,etc. Keep rental cars off the flightline! I have a great picture of a taxiing Thunderbirds T-33 with the Team's F-16s in the background. But it is ruined by the teams rentals vans parked next the the F-16s!!! Keep the showline clear of clutter so we can see and photograph the airplanes!!! Whew. Okay. Calm. Calm. Chappie Amen! Mike Link to post Share on other sites
Rampage55 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 (edited) would you rather be next to no restrictions and some idiot smuggle something in a kill a couple hundred people? True, it's a pain sometimes, but if you think ahead, there should be no problems. Just remember the world has changed and the USA has become a target. "Those willing to give up a little of their freedom to gain a little security will soon find they have neither". Ben Franklin When we start to give away our liberty out of fear, the terrorist win. In the long term this is the greater threat to our way of life than anything the terrorist can do.... "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" Edited July 9, 2007 by Rampage55 Link to post Share on other sites
Scot M Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 (edited) When it gets to the point that I have to pay $40 and receive a full body search,that's when I won't go..... Otherwise I'll be there rain or shine. But that's just me... Edited July 9, 2007 by Scot M Link to post Share on other sites
Zmey Smirnoff Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Two things:1 - Make the rules consistent, plan for the effects of the rules, and enforce them, I went to 4 airshows last year, and here's what happened: You cannot make ALL airshow rules consistent. State laws differ greatly from each other. There isnt one Federal Authority to rule them, to find them, to bring them all and in darkness bind them. Individual states are free to impose unique restrictions based on how paranoid or enlightened their Chamber of Commerce is. Link to post Share on other sites
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