One-Oh-Four Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Hi everybody, I was looking through photos of German TF-104G's on the 'net and it appeared to me that it looks like they've got different nozzles than the single-seaters. Hasegawa also indicates to use the bigger nozzle. It looks like an F-4E nozzle. I know that the F-104S had a different type of J-79 installed but I'm unaware of engine differences between the single-seater and the dual-G's. Anyone know somethingh about this? Thanks in advance, Cheers, Erik. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I think that later in life, some of the German F-104s got a more powerful engine, hence the different exhaust. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PeepingBear Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Yes, Dave is right, in the 70es "our" Starfighters got a modernized J79 engine, it was more reliable and economical, had 200kp more thrust, but -alas- lost the characteristic banshee-like sound. On a bare-metal F-104, or one with the older letter + numeral identification code (e.g. DF+234) you could surely find the older, original nozzle. Changeover to the newer ID-system (numerals only, e.g. 20+50) was around 1970, thus aircraft with these IDs will probably have the modified exhaust. The RF-104s were phased out in the early 70es, so it makes sense t oshow them with the old nozzle. You can use Aires' F-4F exhaust to depict the modified nozzle and Aires' F-104 exhaust for the old engine. HTH Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
One-Oh-Four Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 Thanks Dave & Jan! Now I have confirmation. I'll build the Luftwaffe-bird OOB with the "F-4-pipe" then. The kit supplied markings depict a JaBoG 31-bird at Noervenich in 1979/1980 so it has to be a modified one. I'll look into www.916-starfighter.de if the HAF TF-104G which will be built alongside was also of German descent or a MAP or otherwise sourced Starfighter. Thanks again! Cheers, Erik. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mmaker Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Eric, which HAF TF are you planning to do? All GAF TF-104's, transfered to Greece with MBB J-79's Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Roberts Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 (edited) Was there not also an enlarging of the intakes to accomodate the airflow needs of the engines, and also a widening of the rear fuselage? Hey, don't talk about its rear fuselage like that! Just because it got old doesn't mean you can make jokes about its enlarging backside! :) It tried hard to stay fit and trim and just couldn't do it (kinda like me!) Edited July 24, 2007 by Darren Roberts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Was there not also an enlarging of the intakes to accomodate the airflow needs of the engines, and also a widening of the rear fuselage? There were slightly larger intakes and an aux air inlet door on the F-104S models, but I don't think on the upengined German birds. The bigger rear fuselage was just a myth, even for the -S. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 The Verlinden Lock On is the primary source for the myth of the bigger F-104S rear fuselage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
One-Oh-Four Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 Eric,which HAF TF are you planning to do? All GAF TF-104's, transfered to Greece with MBB J-79's Hi Mmaker, Icarus suggests TF-5965, ex-Luftwaffe 28+35 of which I've found no photo in HAF-markings. I've found a pic of TF-5928, ex-Luftwaffe 27+98, both should be fitted with the later exhaust. I've also found some pics of 22278 one time as FG(!)-278 and one time as TF-278, ex-Spanish 161-01 and/or 104-21 with the older nozzle. I really haven't made up my mind yet. I'd like my model to have the red wingwalks, the Greek language "No steps" and a bit of a sun-bleached paintjob. At least I trust Icarus have done their homework as opposed to some other manufacturers (don't mention Eagle Strike!). Cheers, Erik. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
One-Oh-Four Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 (edited) The Verlinden Lock On is the primary source for the myth of the bigger F-104S rear fuselage. Yep, I studied that photo in the Lock-On for hours and just thought it was my eyesight or something. I never could spot a difference in it's buttock-size! Cheers, Erik. Edited July 25, 2007 by One-Oh-Four Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mmaker Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Hi Eric, heres two photos I found after retirement of the type Photos from airliners.gr But what about this? http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=628324 http://www.patricksaviation.com/uploads/av_images/2888.jpg A Dutch one with Greek markings http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=628320 Cheers, George. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hooter Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Withy regard to the re-engining of German F-104s I was on armament practice camp with Phantom FGR 2s of 17 squadron between 1972-74 at Decimomannu and I well remember the distinctive howl of the F-104s during that period! It would seem that the re-engining of these airplanes must have taken sometime to complete, so It's probably best to check any photos you might have before building. Having said that, most of the TF-104Gs pictured in the F40 publication have the later jet nozzle! Hope this of some help. ha Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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