USN Phantoms

[jimz66]

I am reading the first installment for the F-4's from the US Navy from Osprey publishing right now, should be done in a couple of days. Anyway, I have a couple of questions for the gallery:

First there is at least two images in the book that show a door in front of and on top of th NAVY insignia on the back, it is on the lower portion of the spine area, and it is open in both photos, I was wondering what this door was for and why it is open in flight?

Second: there is a few metions and at least one image of the G model Phantom from the Navy, aparantly it is just a modified version of the B model. What would one need to do to model such a modification and what markings were used for this seamingly one cruise experiment?

[phantom]

Without seeing the photo in question......I am going to GUESS the two open doors are for the RAT. Ram Air turbine, which was employed to provide minimal power to certain systems in the event of emergency. Like.......someone tossed an ATOLL into your airframe and your about to die.

(Sorry I only build the models...not like I ever worked on the real things!!!! )

Now, the F-4G (N) that I know a little more about. Off the top of my skull....VF-213 had several (8 or 12 ish) Phantoms converted for a cruise in the mid 60's. They had a bunch of internal systems added, like automated landing systems, stuff like that, that the pilots were not too big on.

The stuff was removed aftercruise and the airframes were once again F-4Bs.

One thing of note. MAny of the airframes recieved an experimental paint scheme, to make the planes less visable.

Basicly......Olive drab or green in a single shade, with small colour markings and white or black numbers.

The Navy did not like the scheme as it was hard to see the planes at night.

There was a Fujimi kit (Jolly rogers boxxing) in 1/72 that had those markings OOB.

[Gene K]

Without seeing the photo in question......I am going to GUESS the two open doors are for the RAT. Ram Air turbine, which was employed to provide minimal power to certain systems in the event of emergency.

Of course the RAT door is only on the left side of the acft. The USAF F-4C also had that RAT.

Gene K

[Spooky 01]

JIMz66:

regarding Your question:

I'm not quite sure about Your question regarding the "door" but I think You mean the "RAT-doors". The Phantom was equiped with a Ram Air Turbine (RAT). This device basically is a small dynamo (quite simular to the one You find on Your bicycle).

Not knowing how much You know regarding the technique's used on aircraft, here's a small explaination.

Every aircraft basically needs two things: a good design & an engine to propell it through the sky. However, there's a little more to it. Besides the aforementioned, jet-aircraft are stuffed with many phantastic black boxes and other gimick's. Most of these gadgets need either electronic power or hydraulic power. A jet engine can supply both. When You look at an engine You will always find some kind of gearbox. This gearbox is attached to the engine drive-shaft. Once the engine is operating it will drive the gearbox.

Hydraulic power:

The gearbox often drives an oil-pump, which in turn pumps around oil & therby supplies hydraulic pressure to operate various hydraulic systems like the landing gear for instance.

Electrical power:

Also attached to the gearbox is the generator. The gearbox drives the generator, which in turn generates electrical power to operate the various electronic gadgets such as the lighting system, RADAR-system, etc., etc..

As long as the engine is doing it's intended job, the pilot will have a marvelous & enjoyable flight. However, when he looses his engine, all hell will break loose !!! Once the engine stops, the gearbox stops, hydraulics are lost & electrical power will become a memory of the past... In such an event the RAT can be deployed.

The RAT basically is a small dynamo as mentioned before. On this dynamo a small propellor is attached. When the RAT is deployed, the propellor pop's out. The airflow will turn the propellor, which in turn will drive the dynamo, which in turn will generate a small amount of electrical power. Normally this will enable the pilot to operate the most vital systems (mainly flight-controls) in order to attempt an air-start or an emergency landing.

On the Phantom, the RAT can be found on the L/H-side of the fuselage, approx midway the wing-section, on top of the intake, below the spine. The RAT is covered by two doors. Often the "walk-way area" is interupted at this position & often You'll find a small red line, indicating the edges of the doors.

Further down the spine, another set of doors can be found on various Phantom-models. On both the L/H & R/H-side, just below the vertical tail, two doors can be found which covered the internal Chaff/Flare dispensers.

RAF & RN Phantoms had an additional set of doors on the fuselage. Approx position is above the trailing edge of the wing, where the fuselage-spine blends into the tail-section. These doors where additional "air auxillary" doors installed on RAF/RN Phantoms since these were equiped with a different (more powerfull)engine.

As for Your question regarding the naval F-4G:

This F-4 was a modified F-4B equipped with an automated landing system. IT SHOULD BY NO MEANS BE CONFUSED WITH THE USAF F-4G "Wild Weasel" !!!!! The program was short-lived and only a few F-4B's were modified. I've found a picture in the book:

F-4 Phantom II

USN & USMC Versions Pt.3

"Detail & Scale"

by Bert Kinzey

ISBN USA 0-8306-8022-5

ISBN UK 0-85368-588-6

(approx 9,00 USD)

The aircraft depicted is 150642/402 "2". The aircraft is painted overall olive green, "cream" radome, and light grey underside. It carries small US-roundels. The registration (150642) can be found in black on the tail. In top of the rudder, as well as on the inboard flaps, a white "2" is applied. The modex, pressumably 402, can be found just in front of the radome on the fuselage nose-section. It is black with a white outline. The modex is also applied in black on the R/H wing (outer-section, top-side). No external modifications can be detected. Since it carried an automated landing systems, my best bet is that it only carried some additional instrumentation in the cockpit. However, Your guess is as good as mine since very little photographic material can be found of these birds...

Well, I hope to have been of some assistance regarding Your questions. Should You need more information just sent me a PM & I'll see what I can do.

"Check Six....."

Spooky.

[Spooky 01]

Hmm, since I'm no typo-wizzard I guess the other guy's beat me to it.....

Oh well, better 10 simular answers then no answer at all !!!!!

"Check Six....."

Spooky.

[John B]

First there is at least two images in the book that show a door in front of and on top of th NAVY insignia on the back, it is on the lower portion of the spine area, and it is open in both photos, I was wondering what this door was for and why it is open in flight?

Chaff/flare dispenser on USN/USMC F-4s. The door is spring-loaded to pop open, but can not be closed again until done manually when the plane is on the ground/ship.

[phantom]

Thats the photoflash (I think thats what its called) dispenser, which is only on the RF-4B, RF-4C and RF-4E.

[kstater94]

I'm with John B. on this one and say that it's chaff/flare dispenser doors that you see open

Cheers

John

[hatchet]

First there is at least two images in the book that show a door in front of and on top of th NAVY insignia on the back, it is on the lower portion of the spine area, and it is open in both photos, I was wondering what this door was for and why it is open in flight?

It could be the auxiliary cooling intake, basically extra coooling for the engine.

<_<

[Incaroad]

These doors or are they farther aft?

Cheers,

Larry.

[John B]

Okay folks, it's time a Phantom phundamentals rephresher class. Let's all look at the picture above. The two open red doors are the doors and well for the RAT. (The RAT itself is missing.) The front of the jet is to the left, tail to the right. Just aft of the RAT well is an open panel with primer coloring. Immediately aft of that is the door for the chaff/flare dispensers found on USN/USMC F-4s. This door pops open, but can't be closed in-flight. This is not the photo-flash ejector doors found only on RF-4s, which are further aft.

The auxillary cooling doors on F-4s with J-79 engines (ie NOT the British Spey-turbofan-engined ones) are on the belly of the Phantom between the maingear wells on either side of the centerline hardpoint.

Edited July 31, 2007 by John Bibay

[Gene K]

First there is at least two images in the book that show a door in front of and on top of th NAVY insignia on the back, it is on the lower portion of the spine area, and it is open in both photos, I was wondering what this door was for and why it is open in flight?

It sure would clear things up if you posted one of the picture (likely not proprietary)!!!

Gene K

[Gene K]

chaff/flare dispensers[found on USN/USMC F-4s. This door pops open, but can't be closed in-flight.

Thanks, John, I learned something new about the Phantom. In the open position, what angle is the door, and what's the color inside and on the back of the door? Pictures?

Gene K

[jimz66]

I think I may have confused everyone. I am sorry, the doors I am refering too are on the right not left side and are slightly the right and top of the NAVY word on the fueslage. It is on the lower portion of the spine. as in the shot above, it is toward the aft end and on the right side not the left as I stated just above. Thanks for all the input fellas. I think all above said the RAT is on the LEFT not the RIGHT, so I think that kills that idea.

[John B]

Follow this link -> Navy F-4 with chaff/flare door open

[silverkite211]

Okay folks, it's time a Phantom phundamentals rephresher class. Let's all look at the picture above. The two open red doors are the doors and well for the RAT. (The RAT itself is missing.) The front of the jet is to the left, tail to the right. Just aft of the RAT well is an open panel with primer coloring. Immediately aft of that is the door for the chaff/flare dispensers found on USN/USMC F-4s. This door pops open, but can't be closed in-flight. This is not the photo-flash ejector doors found only on RF-4s, which are further aft.

The auxillary cooling doors on F-4s with J-79 engines (ie NOT the British Spey-turbofan-engined ones) are on the belly of the Phantom between the maingear wells on either side of the centerline hardpoint.

I agree with John Bibay and the others that have said that what you are seeing is the door for the chaff dispensers. If you look at the walkways for Navy Phantoms, you'll see where the walkway is notched to clear the doors.

[hatchet]

The auxillary cooling doors on F-4s with J-79 engines (ie NOT the British Spey-turbofan-engined ones) are on the belly of the Phantom between the maingear wells on either side of the centerline hardpoint.

Ooops

[Finn]

In the F-4 Phantom Spirit in the Skies book, 1st edition. on the cover there is a pic with the chaff door open and on pg 30 there is a even closer look at it.

Jari

[f4h1phantom]

Follow this link -> Navy F-4 with chaff/flare door open

Thanks John!

I must admit I had never heard of that!!!

Where those chaff/flare dispensers on every Navy/Marine Phantom? :blink: :blink: :blink:

B)

Jorge.