Timvkampen Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 As alsways, very interesting and wonderful to read the update... And as to the next problem...challenge is a more uplifting word. Do you have enough close-up material of the bird or do you mean to be able to see and inspect the layout of the Lightning itself? For my Sea Furies it did help to actually see one and take some 'focussed' pictures...only to find out I need more of course. Good luck though! Br, T Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Wolstenholme Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hi Berkut, Jack and AS, thanks as always for your comments and interest. I use the MDC rivetting tool (both the 1/32nd scale and 1/48th scale For a very accurate appearance, use a pin or sewing needle to make a tiny hole in the centre of each circle/mound. A time consuming but ultimately rewarding exercise. Many thanks Guy. Would you be able to post a ‘for instance’ of what the produced rivets look like? What size of rivets, if measurable, do 1:32 and 1:48 produce? How long does the tool last and how do you re-sharpen it? I am fairly close to 'the edge' now, your second idea may just put me over the edge Thanks for any info. Regards John do you mean to be able to see and inspect the layout of the Lightning itself? Hi Tim. Yeah, that's what I am thinking it may come down to, unless anybody out there has got ideas! Unfortunately there isn't one nearby. Regards John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PapaSmurf630 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Brilliant progress as always John. Well laid out thread with very nice pictures. Just what we need. You're one of the unsung heroes of the ARC board I feel! Looking forward to seeing some paint on this bird. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geedubelyer Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Many thanks Guy. Would you be able to post a ‘for instance’ of what the produced rivets look like? What size of rivets, if measurable, do 1:32 and 1:48 produce? How long does the tool last and how do you re-sharpen it?I am fairly close to 'the edge' now, your second idea may just put me over the edge Thanks for any info. Regards John Hi John, here's a quick look at the MDC effort. Please forgive my feeble attempts to photograph the results. I scribed a line in the back of the rear fuselage section from the Tamiya Tomcat and then used that to compare to the size if the rivets. The 1/48th versions are almost an exact match for the ones offered by Tamiya on parts of the kit. It's quite difficult to show the domed effect to any advantage but you can see the flatter version where I've left them without a pin prick. I suspect they'd look better if I'd taken my time and got the tip of the pin in the centre of each rivet.... I've never needed to sharpen the tips of the tools. They are steel so pushing them into plastic does n't do them much harm. This is a link to the MDC webpage............here HTH. Good luck with whatever you opt to do. :wub: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phartycr0c Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 (edited) John, Dont go too mad with the riviting thing. as you say being flush rivited, the painted ones became infilled with paint The rivets were only actually visible on the bare metal areas of the body and certain regularly used panels. I hope the photo shows the difference between the two areas. The lines of rivets can be seen faintly behind the paintwork. Ive got a few more hi res images if you want em? Edited March 4, 2009 by Phartycr0c Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Wolstenholme Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Hi John, here's a quick look at the MDC effort. HTH. Guy, thanks so much for taking the time to do that. Goodness that is one (well two actually) aggressive looking tool I don't think the thinner vacform plastic would be up to that. Regards John Ive got a few more hi res images if you want em? Thanks Dave, PM sent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Wolstenholme Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) G'day all. Got a few things moving in the right direction. The F/Path PE intake rim, although well detailed, is likely to produce a poor/disastrous result. The kit part fits well and would only be ruined by trying to use the PE part. It is useful to cut masking strips and the plastic card to be fitted inside the rim. The transition of rim to trunking needs to be flush, but separate, to define the s/steel rim from fuselage and trunking skins. A painting demarcation instead of a ‘break’ will not only be difficult, but not look as good! To achieve this, the two parts need to be shaped together, but be separable for painting to inside. #1 Over-wide gasket from 0.25mm card to remove vac-form rounded edge. #2 The ‘rebated’ front edge of the fuselage having been ‘squared-up’, the gasket was trapped between this and the kit rim. Rim attached with masking tape at inside for filling/sanding to shape/compliance at outside (#2a). NOTE: Coated rim, where it contacts fuselage, with Maskol to prevent gluing the two together. #3 When the outside shaping was finished, the rim was then held with masking tape to outside for the inside work. [a] 2mm wide card strip (cut using PE part), thickness to match step, was then carefully attached (PVC Cleaner, rather than solvent weld and sparingly) inside the rim to abut the front fuselage step. Rim removed and filler to infill between card strip and rim front (and fuselage as required). Each sanded roughly to shape, then re-attached to fuselage for finally matching of two parts. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r18/jwolst/Lightning/100a.jpg #4 Kit white metal pitot tube. The slightest ‘ding’ and this is going to bend. Certainly, Frank’s idea of having the pitot detachable is excellent. #5 New pitot tube from s/steel tube. It polishes up just like the real thing. [a] 1.3mm dia tubing Brass rod sanded to fit inside s/steel tube and flamed to simulate pitot head heating. #6 White metal housing drilled so that the s/steel tube is held within ~8mm of plastic tube/metal. I applied a thin smear of grease to the tube so that the CA wouldn’t stick it to the housing during assembly. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r18/jwolst/Lightning/101a.jpg At this point the pitot tube housing is only taped in place. Just need to remember how to use the airbrush now. BFN John Edited February 16, 2021 by John Wolstenholme b Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Timvkampen Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 Nice additions! And clever solutions! T Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ian black Posted March 9, 2009 Share Posted March 9, 2009 [ ]Hope this works! stunning so far, dont think the Lightning has many rivets that arnt flush. The panels / access which there are many have screws or Zuess fastners. send me an e mail if you need more help i lost your last one when my hard drive died, rgds Ian Ok how do you add a picture!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chukw Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 Well, this builds remains a 4-star thrill ride- cheers to you, John! One of the wonderful things about this amazing bird is the riotous texturing of panels and hatches. As for rivets, I say have at them! If you're going to give so much nuance to this remarkable model it would not, in my eyes, hurt to show as much as you can. Rivets lines reveal the structures unseen beneath the skin and give us a visual clue of the true nature of the airframe. certainly they'd be invisible on a real bird shrunk down by unguessable forces to this size- but it's a scale model, after all. ;D That said, in the end I trust you'll make the decision that will make you happiest, and I eagerly await your informative, inspiring and enjoyable postings. Cheers! chuk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Wolstenholme Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 Ok how do you add a picture!! Hi Ian. You need to host your pictures on Photobucket, or similar. Having done so, copy and paste the url marked as IMG Code (4th line under photo) into your post. If you preview your post you will see all is well, or not as the case may be. Wondered why I never heard from you. At least it is was nothing I said ;) Regards John As for rivets, I say have at them! That said, in the end I trust you'll make the decision that will make you happiest chuk Hi Chuk. What can I say? Many thanks. My initial thoughts are to go with minimum rivets when looking at the close-up photo Dave posted above. Cheers John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marcel111 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Incredible work John! I'm incredibly impressed by your scribing work, including the rivets. Also like your pitot. Marcel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
karl h Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 this build never ceases to amaze me.... john you are a true master Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Wolstenholme Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 (edited) And as to the next problem...challenge is a more uplifting word. Hey Tim, meant to say before, you’ve either been on the appropriate courses and/or a fan of The Office :) send me an e mail if you need more help Ian, I wonder if my emails are being filtered out as junk (maybe rightly so ), not hearing from you. Thanks again Marcel and Karl for the continuing support. The forward portion of the radar bullet is fibreglass. Being painted they tend to be heavily worn/weathered, thereby appearing ‘patchy’ as opposed to a solid colour. As such it seems to have a degree of translucency; I have tried to replicate this effect using shades of paint and random rubbing down with W&D. The intake being a prominent feature, not being tucked away, I endeavoured to detail the bullet. Photo below shows completed installation of intake trucking/rim, radar bullet and pitot head housing. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r18/jwolst/Lightning/102a.jpg Most interestingly, the inside rim appears very dark, although painted with Alclad stainless steel. At first I was extremely disappointed with the result; compare the metal tip. It then hit me that as the s/steel is quite reflective it may be reflecting the ‘darkness’ of the intake/bullet. When I introduced the similarly painted refuelling probe nozzle into the intake, guess what happened? Just in case you are not convinced, here is a photo of the real thing taken with flash! http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r18/jwolst/Miscellaneous/102b.jpg BFN John Edited February 16, 2021 by John Wolstenholme b Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Anthony in NZ Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Wow! I am truly speechless, you are indeed a master and I have learnt a few tricks for my 32nd BK 117 build on the helio section.....thanks! Cheers Anthony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geedubelyer Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 The forward portion of the radar bullet is fibreglass. Being painted they tend to be heavily worn/weathered, thereby appearing ‘patchy’ as opposed to a solid colour. As such it seems to have a degree of translucency; I have tried to replicate this effect using shades of paint and random rubbing down with W&D. BFN John And you have succeeded admirably John That looks exactly like fibre-glass to my eyes. So much so that I thought you'd used actual fibre-glass to cast a new bullet before I began to read your text. The comparison shots of your model and the real article just go to show how beautifully you've captured the look of the original. What an inspiration! Keep it up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Wolstenholme Posted March 21, 2009 Author Share Posted March 21, 2009 (edited) I have learnt a few tricks for my 32nd BK 117 build Anthony Thanks Anthony, it is great getting feedback like that. Guy thanks for your uplifting words. At the moment it seems more perspirational! I have extrapolated your idea, on the previous page, about using syringe tubing for the zeus fasteners, as you will see. Having produced lots of access panels, now have to show the panel screws and Dzus fasteners. These are much bigger than panel screws/rivets and cannot be represented by the normal ‘depression’ using a needle etc. #1 The end of a short section of s/steel tubing of appropriate size was squared and the wall thickness reduced to the outside by filing to produce an edge of conical shape. This edge tends to displace material rather than cutting/scribing. By making slots to the edge, using a 5 thou saw, across the diameter it ‘cuts’ a circle. #2 0.5mm plastic card template used to get the fasteners in a straight line and the correct spacing. Mark the centres for drilling, start with a small drill and work up to the correct size. If you go slightly off-line you can use the small drill to elongate the hole back on-line. The next drill size then centres itself on the elongated hole to correct. With the template secured in position with masking tape, you then make fasteners using a rotating action. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r18/jwolst/Lightning/103a.jpg Panel screws. Not having any drawing software, I used Word (Table, Table Properties) to produce an A4 sheet of parallel lines of 1mm spacing. This printed sheet was then scanned and the jpeg image size reduced in EZThumbnails (or Photoshop Elements 3.0) to give closer line spacing, as required. Probably easier just to photo reduce on a copier. Vertical narrow strips cut and tacked in place provided a graduated ‘ruler’ to mark the panel screws. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r18/jwolst/Lightning/104a.jpg So there are hours (correction - dayssss....) of sheer enjoyment ahead. You can have too much of a good thing! BFN John Edited February 16, 2021 by John Wolstenholme b Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jack-Swiss Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 That's a nice tip for scribing John! I actually picked up an old ruler with 0.5 mm spacing, trimmed it to have a "mini" ruler of max 3 cm of length and then I attach it with masking tape to the plane... the only prob is that it is too thick, but it is also an advantage cause it allows you to put your scriber and make in-line rivets! Cheers :P Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Timvkampen Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 That is some fine scribing work John. I have to pick up my skill on the Sea Furies....this helps ;-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ian lanc Posted April 13, 2009 Share Posted April 13, 2009 i get wet everytime i look at this build ! its just out of this world and i reckon its the best ever ian. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Wolstenholme Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 (edited) G'day all. Yes, that means you. it seems more perspirational! Ian, sorry it’s having this effect on you too Hi Tim. It’s good to get some primer on after all this time and get an idea of what it will look like when the mishmash of filler, resin pieces etc becomes one. old ruler with 0.5 mm spacing G’day Jack, at least someone thought it was a good idea. A good quality paper is thick enough to give a guide edge for the initial mark. It has the advantages, over a steel rule, of (i) easily stuck to model, (ii) bends to contours, (iii) masking tape with multi-cuts to rear edge allows bending to follow compound curves, (iv) no parallax problem, (v) can mark on paper to aid setting out.Well, I think it is a great idea. As they say the proof of the pudding is….. http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r18/jwolst/Lightning/106a.jpg Interestingly (well PITA actually), as I did the access panels individually I found a few errors which had to be corrected. Also, the refuelling state panel has eleven indicator lights. Decided not to press my luck with panel screws as well! The rear end shows a comb effect where the parachute cable clips in around the jet pipes. Spent ~3 hrs everyday for the last 3 weeks to complete the fuselage (except for 3 fuel dump outlets which would be easily broken off and a few panels to ventral pack, position/sizes not known, yet!). Patience tank is showing empty. I need a break, then will look at the MLG before going completely dotty on the wings. BFN John ps Putting together a Scribing and Related Detail article (6 pages). If of interest drop me an email, or a PM with an email addy - no use without an addy! Edited February 16, 2021 by John Wolstenholme c Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jack-Swiss Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 AWEEEESOME.........I can smell the paint....really approaching the paint session uh?!? :) can0t wait for that step! Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Timvkampen Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 There is no way the Trumpeter kit is ever going to look better!!!! Marvelous job so far. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
parche Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Holy crap...what a beaut... amazing detail... hopefully that patience tank gets filled back up so we can see more of your marvelous work. Cheers, Dave Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cemical Posted April 19, 2009 Share Posted April 19, 2009 Nice rescribing. Very nice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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