Jump to content

What do you want a new Eduard Phantom series to have


Recommended Posts

Ok we now have news that 2009 will bring us a new Phantom series in 48th from Eduard.

What do the jet guys want the Eduard kit to have that the Hasegawa didn't or to do better? I never built the 48th kits only 72nds so I don't really have a good angle on the kit.

.

.

.

.

EXCEPT LETS GET THE WEAPONS IN THE KIT!

Matt

Link to post
Share on other sites

The obvious would be an F--4B,C,D,N and F-110 with recessed panel lines. It would be awesome if they could slide mold the fuselage and offer it as one piece similiar to Tamiya's big scale ones. I always hated trying to perfect the seam on top of the hase one without removing those delicate panel lines. And how about ordnance included. I'd pay a few bucks more to have something to hang under it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Might as well dream big....

Resin cockpit/wheel wells/wheels/exhaust.....

Super thin decals....with markings that no one has done yet.

Optional stabs..slotted & non-slotted.

Dropped flaps....

Have I forgotten anything..?

"First With Guns",

Jim

Link to post
Share on other sites

complete intakes , and U/c bays that have Some detail ...

I'm not sure about weapons , apart from the obvious AiM-7/9's and tanks - there is so much else the beast carried , you could end up in the same state as those of us with more than 3 Academy hornets , running out of places to store the dozen unused weapons sprues ...

Oh and pits with decent side wall detail would also be nice !

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lets add this. Hom much are you willing to pay for all of the improvements, like full intakes, gear bays, weapons, etc? Baseon on their smaller Bf110 and Mirage, Eduard kits aren't cheap.

I'm sure many would pay a premium for a recessed C/D or B/N, but how much more would people pay for a E/F/G/J/S? Plus, will all of the existing aftermarket fit the Eduard kits? People probably have a lot of money invested in the Hasegawa kits, and associated accessories. I think the Eduard kits would have to be really something special to get these people to junk the Hasegawa kits in their stash.

Edited by Dave Williams
Link to post
Share on other sites

:o

I'd like to see a complete kit of a particular model F-4 that corrects a lot of the shortcomings of the Has kits.

For example, the Has RF-4C kit does not come with the F-15 style centerline fuel tank, but the kit decals are for late a/c that should have that tank. Since this tank always seems to be carried, it prevents you from making an accurate late RF-4C.

The Has F-4E kit does NOT come with the ARN-101 bulge (its in the RF-4C kit, but not the RF-4B) for the top fuselage spine preventing one from making the last version of the F-4E. The chaff/flare dispensers are the early versions and only are in the F-4E kits. The AIM-9 launcher rails leave something to be desired...

As others have said, a better cockpit and seats would be nice. I'd pay $50 for them.

Dennis

Link to post
Share on other sites

I replied in the wrong thread :o

Looking at the fact that their initial Mirage releases were like $50, and the 110 retails about $50 how much will a bigger Eduard F-4 cost? $60+ ? Most Hasegawa F-4s retail for about $40.

True...but how many Phantom Phanatics out there load up thier kits with intakes, weapons, PE and other enhancements that drive the kits up to or past the price you had stated. Without considering decals which usually is a given for those of us around here, no matter the manufacturer.

That was the point of my question. What do you think you'd like to see the Eduard kit have as a 21st Century state of the art kit that would surpass the now 20+ year old Hasegawas. In a similar vein to what the questions that surrounded the Tamiya Viper earlier this year. What would make you buy a kit that is 1.5x to 2x the cost of the curent 'state of the art' kit. Other than the obvious 'well, it is a newer kit'

My guess is a minimum $75 MSRP by the time it gets here - in two years!

Matt

Link to post
Share on other sites
The obvious would be an F--4B,C,D,N and F-110 with recessed panel lines. It would be awesome if they could slide mold the fuselage and offer it as one piece similiar to Tamiya's big scale ones. I always hated trying to perfect the seam on top of the hase one without removing those delicate panel lines.

In strong agreement with your statement.

Personally, I'd reccomend just include 4 Sidewinders and 4 pheonix with drop tanks as standard (like Hasegawa). Than offer varired underwing stores per boxing and version.

Please include pilots!

Link to post
Share on other sites

How about a stand, and gear doors all molded as single units for making an in-flight display?

I was looking at my 10-year-old daughter's Fujimi F-4E last night, turning it around to see it at different angles, and even though it's painted orange, bright blue, yellow, silver and black, the F-4 looks best "in flight" (It lost its landing gear a long time ago!).

I can wish, can't I?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet your all wondering what a guy who calls himself Phantom...Wants to see in the new Phantom kits......

1. Flaps. in the parked position

2. Proper intakes, nice and deep

3. Correct cockpit for the type in the box

4. More OOB decal options.....Greece and Iran come to mind.

5. Affordable. If I am going to make a bunch of these to augment the over 100 I have now,(12 in 1/48) they better be affordable and THAT much better then the Hasegawa.

6. Weapons and TER's beyond the air to air would be nice.

And MOST important...........

7. Free samples to people on ARC with the term "Phantom" as their name. I even promise a review within a month of recieving the kit. :whistle:

Edited by phantom
Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me start by saying that I think these kits are winners already, just by the fact that we're going to get 20 year newer toolings on the F-4 family! Seeing what they've done with the Fw190 and Bf110, I guarantee that they'll be a huge improvement over the Hasegawa kit in the surface detail department ALONE.

Beyond that just to name a few places that they can improve:

Multiple variants of the rear stabs - Slotted/Unslotted, with and without the reinforcement plate - all variants with engraved panel lines.

Tanks that are separated from their pylons

Pylons that are detailed with engraved panel lines

Improved weapon surface details

Intakes

When Hasegawa retooled from the early raised panel line kits for the F-4J and F-4E, they did a nice job on the fuselage and wings, but the rest of the parts are vintage mid-80s, so while everyone sees the Hasegawa kits as good, more than half the kit is REALLY outdated.

So I can see Eduard improving on all of those fronts over Hasegawa AND doing better surface detail to boot.

And $60+ is not too much to pay for those improvements - we all spend that much EASILY in aftermarket to update the Hasegawa kits as it is.

As for Aftermarket, I'll hope that the companies come along with new updates for those kits vs. trying to fit old stuff. Not too much of a stretch!

Plenty to work on in the meantime, including a MiG-21, but this is MOST welcome news!

Paul

Link to post
Share on other sites

The above statement regarding the Hasegawa kits is right on. Right now, I am building two Hasegawa kits. From a combiation of 3 boxxes.

A old J, with new J wings. a bunch of new J parts with a mix of old E parts to make a S.

When I am done I will end up with 2 models and dang little for the spare box.

The early J is years behing the later offering. Some things don't even fit well between the two kits , but I will bash em' together.

The cockpits are the most noticable improvement in the Hasegawa kits. The old series (Navy) pretty much HAVE to have aftermarket or built with the canopy closed. Just too many errors.

Hasegawa has really improved the kit by leaps and bounds. The newer kit builds nice, but it will be great to see what 20 years of injection mold plastic improvements might come up with.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Judging by how Eduard are approaching all-new tools kits (Fw190, Bf110), I'm guessing these new Phantoms will be no less impressive. If they take the same approach as they did with their Fw190, the individual variants will include parts specific to that variant.

As for cost, and just as an example, I didn't find the Eduard Fw190 a whole lot more than the Tamiya version when it was released. And the contents of the Eduard kit were far superior to the Tamiya kit.

Sure, not a whole lot of people built it with all the guts hanging out, and those options did make for a more fiddlier fit than the Tamiya kit, but all the goodies were there so that only the purists "needed" to add aftermarket items. Judging by what I saw, there was no need for resin, and I add resin to pretty much everything. The marking options were even interesting enough for me to use the kit decals.

And with respect to decals, Eduard's decals are the best quality kit decals I have ever come across.

All that said, I can't wait for these kits to come out.

Link to post
Share on other sites
The above statement regarding the Hasegawa kits is right on.

Thanks - I'm finishing one up now myself - so I'm right in the weeds with all the parts now - adding on all the final bits.

It's one of those kits that when you're not working on one, you think of as being a nice new tool Hasegawa kit, but as soon as you dig into one and have to do things like re-work the pylons (or use one of your dwinidling store of KMC pylon sets) and sand the reinforcement plate off the tailplanes, it's just a lot more work than it needs to be.

Eduard can easily improve in all of those departments!

Paul

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a big fan of the photoetch sandwiched instrument panels like Eduard's detail sets use. If they could include that in the kit, it would be real nice to not have to buy it seperately. Better seats of course. Optional one piece canopy. I always scrooge up the Has. intake to fuselage fit, so if they could re-engineer that I'D be happy. Wing folds. And a coupon for $15 of your next Phantom purchase.

Rick L.

Link to post
Share on other sites
According to the information over at Hyperscale they're going to start with the F-4B. I'm sure the kits will be fantastic. Right now though I'm more looking forward to Aug. of next year and the MiG-21bis being released.

About time the early Navy Phantoms got some love! I can build Old Nick 201 and one of the Supersonic Can Opener MiG Killers! I'm looking forward to a MiG-21R without a ton of resin as well!

How about a stand, and gear doors all molded as single units for making an in-flight display?

I've always though that all kits should have a set of closed doors for this purpose. There are many aftermarket stands available that look a world better than most stands included in kits. Saves on costs too.

... just to name a few places that they can improve:

Multiple variants of the rear stabs - Slotted/Unslotted, with and without the reinforcement plate - all variants with engraved panel lines.

Tanks that are separated from their pylons

Pylons that are detailed with engraved panel lines

Improved weapon surface details

Intakes

When Hasegawa retooled from the early raised panel line kits for the F-4J and F-4E, they did a nice job on the fuselage and wings, but the rest of the parts are vintage mid-80s, so while everyone sees the Hasegawa kits as good, more than half the kit is REALLY outdated.

Paul

Couldn't agree more Paul. I have an F-4E from Hase and I was amazed how all the pylons and tanks have raised panel lines. Sure wish they had retooled those sprues as well.

Fuji's wish list:

- Refueling probe for Navy jets

- Israeli refueling probe for the E when it comes out.

- Decent AIM-9Bs and D / Gs OOB

- Different (accurate) undernose sensors for the B to make an early and late model without surgery.

- Different fincaps for the B as well.

- A selection of horzontal stabs

- Seperate TER for underwing racks

- Extended Nose Gear

- Navy style boarding ladder

- Wingfolds

- Something to give the impression of full intakes (I think full intakes would be cost prohibitive) instead of a flat piece of plastic

- A version of each type without all the extras (PE, Resin, acre sized decal sheets, etc) and therefore extra cost - Something for the OOB guys like me (Weekend Kit series)

I'm willing to fork out $65 for a kit or two.

Edited by Fuji
Link to post
Share on other sites
Lets add this. Hom much are you willing to pay for all of the improvements, like full intakes, gear bays, weapons, etc?

It should have super-detailed EVERYTHING, and sell for $10. For the Royal Class release where you get four kits in the box. :(

(or to put that another way, amen.)

Improvements I'd want/expect, at a minimum, and in no particular order:

Improved cockpit detail - ie, sidewall detail, since Hasegawa's bare here. Rear buklhead detail, too.

Intakes. Most people will still ***** and moan about filling seams, and get resin replacements anyway (how many people bought seamless A-7 trunks?), but it better have them.

Better wheel well details. Probably looking at multi-piece bays, like their Mirage. Still won't be plumbed, but will be better.

Aux. engine bay detail. Not the big hole Hasegawa have (and smooth doors, too)

Improved intake splitters. No holes in the back. Bonus points for getting the vents on the actual splitters.

Better exhausts. The one big visible issue with Hasegawa's kit. Again, won't be resin quality, but if they can match, say, Revell's F-15E, I'd be happy.

Clear lights. Easier than cutting out/replacing solid plastic.

Pylons - Hase's 'Winder pylons are wrong. Also, accurate AF/Navy pylons. And individual wing pylons, rather than integrating the drop tanks.

An OOB option for both slats/slots and hard wings/tail would be nice, since there's so much mix and match out there.

Control surfaces. Not really an issue for me personally, but I'd expect to have separate flaps, rudder, etc.

Lots of bonus bits - as mentioned above, Hasegawa HAVE most of the various permutations of hardware tooled (TISEO, ARN, F-15 tank, etc.), just not always in the box you want to buy. Include those (and tail caps, and parabrake doors and the like), and modellers will be happy.

Ordnance, obviously. Though I would be pretty miffed if they DID include Phoenixes. ;) Tricky thing here is, what ordnance? 'Winders and Sparrows obviously... but Hasegawa include these anyway. When you get beyond that, there's just so many permutations it's impossible to narrow down, and you're looking at Hasegawa weapons set type inclusions.

RAISED panel lines on the drop tanks, so I don't have to add the weld beads myself.

Oh, and of COURSE, a more accurate shape, since Hasegawa DOES have a few minor glitches.

And IF they do the RF's as well, a proper, RF, Sparrow-less belly.

On the other hand, I don't care about exposed bays (gun panels, avionics, radar, etc.). Folding wings would be a pain in the *** - novelty to build one with wings folded, and loads of extra work to build the rest 'normally'. I don't care about extra display pieces - ammo carts, ground equipment, household pets. Basically, any extraneous crap that would make building the kit as a typical, wheels down, resting on the tarmac aircraft, more difficult (I'm thinking along the lines of the guts-out -190 here), and would add 'needless' expense based on that criteria (paying to tool gun bays when the wings are closed up).

Edited by MickeyThickey
Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I'll play:

All:

Drooped ailerons (I think some folks are mistaking them for flaps. The flaps didn't droop when the jet was parked.)

Intake ducts

Afterburner nozzles at least comparable to those in Hasegawa's F-104 kits

Decent cockpits with sidewall detail

Landing gear down locks

Aux air inlet detail

Canopy frame details!!!!

F-4E:

ALQ-131

ARN-101

TISEO

Open gun gas purge door

F-15-style centerline tank

Decals for 4th FTW jets (I'm not real happy with the way my Hasegawa F-4E turned out) :wierdo:

F-4S:

Correct slats

Correct decals for VMFA-333 in the TPS camo

F-4C/D:

I'd just be happy to get a D with decent detail and scribed panel lines!

F-4B:

See F-4C/D note

Ben

Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as they use service specific wings and stabilators without the stiffener plates that nwere added later to the aircraft.On the USAF planes no upper wing bulges above the main gear struts.Othere than the wheel bulge on the wings,I have yet to see a USAF main gear bulge other than on History Channels Dogfight series.

:thumbsup:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ya know, on the wing tanks the pylons are integral to the tanks on the real jet. But I would like the outboard pylons with the adapters for weapons.

Actually I am really psyched about this!! even thoug I am a Hog Crew Chief the Phantom is my love (glad I didn't have to crew them tho!!)

Like other have said you really can't use the common sprue for all the different wings, buy seeing what they have done with the Fw-190 series I am hoping this won't be a problem.

I can't really add much to what others have said but I wish them a long and varied series of releases!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...