Nitr0 Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Hi guys! I have this BF109 F-2, by ICM, just waiting to be started.... As you see, the colours codes are from Model Master. What I'd like to know is if there's any relationship between these colours and the RLM criteria, since it's quite difficult to me to find Model Master paints here in Brazil. Thank you for your time regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Walker Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 From a couple of profiles I've seen of this aircraft I'll disagree a bit with the colors ICM has selected. It appears the aircraft was in the standard RLM 74/75/76 scheme (not "European Green" and "Pale Green" as described above) and a couple of references suggested the swirled pattern over the upper colors was RLM 70. The spinner should also be RLM 70, perhaps with one third in white. I don't believe this particular plane has the tight spiral on the front of the spinner as shown in the ICM drawing, though at least one other JG3 aircraft did. The yellow would be RLM 04. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nitr0 Posted September 8, 2007 Author Share Posted September 8, 2007 (edited) thanks a lot for your help, David! do you mind telling me where did you find profiles of this aircraft? I mean, any specific book, a website...? thank you again Edited September 8, 2007 by Nitr0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Walker Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 (edited) I've been trying to track them down, but the only one I've come up with so far is in Japanese publication, "Messerschmitt Bf 109 F Friedrich." I'm not even quite sure who the publisher is. My other ones must still be packed from my last move. Too many books and not enough shelves. edit: just found another profile of it in "Me 109 Vol. II 1942 to 1945" by Breffort and Jouineau. They show it 74/75/76 with the overlying pattern in 74. I'd like to find an actual photo of the plane but so far no luck. Edited September 9, 2007 by David Walker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silver1 Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 I found a poor quality picture of his plane HERE. It doesn't look like it's going to be of much help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
polybebber Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 I found this in the "Planes and Pilots" book Volume II: Maybe this helps. Lothar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nitr0 Posted September 9, 2007 Author Share Posted September 9, 2007 thank you silver1...although the picture didn't clear things up, I found Rohwer's history quite interesting Great contribution, polybebber :D As David said, the colours on this one are basically 74/75/76.....and not just a bunch of different shades of green :wub: I just got curious to know the references and pictures that ICM used to guide us on this specific aircraft.....way off thanks again guys Quote Link to post Share on other sites
silver1 Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 (edited) I am very suspicous of where some companies get their references for decals. That picture of Rowher's plane could be the only reference ICM had and they based the finer details of the scheme on other planes of his unit that shared common markings. It is also possible that since Rohwer flew several planes in his career, this is a different plane. Edited September 9, 2007 by silver1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DirtyGerman Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 The answer is no. Since the Model Master RLM paints are purposely made to be as close to the actual RLM colors as possible, there will be no other paints (unless specified as RLM paint) that come close to matching them. If you are willing to try your hand at mixing your own to get a closer match there is an excellent reference for you. It is the Eagle Editions Official Luftwaffe Color Chart. These are the actual colors used by the Luftwaffe. http://www.eagle-editions.com/colorchart.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
I love airbrushing Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Doesn't Poly Scale have a similar collection of RLM colours to that from Model Master? The only difference is that the latter is enamel-based. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
agboak Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 The colours are the previous standard of 71/02/65, or possibly 70/02/65. The surviving camouflage instructions show that the replacment 74/75/76 scheme was not standardised before November 1941, so an aircraft in 1941 would still be in the greens not the greys. The kit instructions are possibly correct. We do have to be careful because trials with grey camouflage were being done as early as May 1940, and there is much evidence that greys came into use earlier than the November 1941 official document. Profiles done at different times have varied, according to the strength (or perhaps just vehemence!) of the arguments presented in the last book the artist read.... I am not claiming to have read any last word on this particular aircraft, but Ken Merrick, in his recent book, states that the 74/75/76 was introduced in production on Bf 109F-2 coming from the Wiener/Neustadt factory in March/April 1941. Allow a month or so for distribution and grey aircraft in Summer (nice and vague, that!) 1941 did exist, but would not have been universal. It could be argued that a successful pilot would grab a new aircraft, but that photo, poor as it is, suggests the green camouflage with heavily mottled sides, rather than the lighter appearance of the new greys. At least, that's what it looks like to me. If you are seriously concerned about the historically likeliest option, I suggest you visit a specialised Luftwaffe site such as The 109 Lair for the most up-to-date assessment of the situation. Otherwise just paint it in whichever scheme you prefer: be prepared to have someone tell you it's wrong whichever one you choose! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 The answer is no. Since the Model Master RLM paints are purposely made to be as close to the actual RLM colors as possible, there will be no other paints (unless specified as RLM paint) that come close to matching them. ehhh......personally I do not much care for Model Master's RLM colors. I can't say I'm an expert, but from personal research and collaboration with other modelers some of their colors I find absolutely awful! Their RLM 71 case in point is waaaaaaayyyy to light. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chuck1945 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 As agboak mentions, at least some early Bf 109F-2s were factory finished in 71/02/65. This is also supported in Prien's book on the Messerschmitt Bf 109F,G, and K in Luftwaffe service. Assuming ICM could be basically correct in their color directions, the choices become 71, 02, and 65 for the basic camouflage with possibly 70 or 71 used for the web pattern. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Mikester Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Wasn't this aircraft was assigned to Hans Von Hahn's Gruppenstab? The accepted norm for Von Hahn's Frieridch is 74/75/76 with a pattern of dark green circles on the fuselage sides. I would hazard a guess that this aircrfat was painted similarly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ch9862 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 An old thread, resurrected . FWIW, there are two pics of this a/c (Rohwer's) in JVB 6/I, and it looks to be 71/02/65 - at least to my eye. Hans von Hahn's looks the same - there is a picture showing high contrast between the colors on the port wing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John @ WEM Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Hi Nitr0, Model Master paints may be hard to get in Brazil, but we ship our Colourcoats enamels to a number of customers in your country--we'd be glad to add you to our list. You'll find accurate RLM colours in our line, and we generally have orders in the mail within a day of receipt. We have no minimum order on paints, and we ship worldwide: http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/acatalog/...fe_Colours.html Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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