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Interesting news on the F-15I attack on Syria

Almansur

By Almansur,
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Karl Sander

Karl Sander

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Finally, I also found it interesting that they felt the need to have ground teams in place to laze the target. The F-15I, of all the aircraft in Israel's inventory, has close to, if not THE best autonomous search-ID-track/target-engage capability. I was a little surprised that they'd used off-board cueing for the weapons.

Just-in-case redundancy? (If it's THAT important to them, and since it's not a campaign type thing where the next wave can get what doesn't get hit...)

Anybody know if markings from that -15I squadron are available?

Isracal MIGHT. I'm not 100% sure.

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Karl Sander

Karl Sander

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I certainly don't know the serviceability rate of their pods (and while I know the rates we see on air wings who pass through Fallon, I'm not discussing it here), the way I read the article it struck me as a case of wanting to make sure 1) the right thing got lazed and 2) no DMPIs were missed due to lack of lazing.

But that's just the $.02 of an electronic attack guy who's been hanging out in a strike-fighter world...

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pollie

pollie

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Whatever the reason, it must be a very good one. Good enough for the Israelis to put a commando team in harm's way.

Maybe it had something to do with clouds or collateral damage? Or there are a lot of similar looking bunkers, and especially from the air they all look alike?

Anyways, I think the attack doesn't increase Israel's popularity among the Arab states ;)

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Karl Sander

Karl Sander

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Whatever the reason, it must be a very good one. Good enough for the Israelis to put a commando team in harm's way.

Certainly right. Clearly, the risk of not hitting the target, or hitting something else, outweighed the risk to the special forces guys. That in itself is an interesting statement.

Maybe it had something to do with clouds or collateral damage? Or there are a lot of similar looking bunkers, and especially from the air they all look alike?

Quite possibly any one of them, or any combination of them. The more I think about it, the more I think positive target ID might play as bit a role as the redundancy issue I suggested earlier. Likely none of us will REALLY know for a while, as I doubt the complete decision-making process is going to be found in open sources any time soon.

Anyways, I think the attack doesn't increase Israel's popularity among the Arab states

True, but how much worse could it really get?

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Raymond

Raymond

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also was suprised about the specific info given, esp given the history on obtaining specific info about israeli military operations. i wonder if the opening description is more of a paralell 'guestimate' of the operation.

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GreyGhost

GreyGhost

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also was suprised about the specific info given, esp given the history on obtaining specific info about israeli military operations. i wonder if the opening description is more of a paralell 'guestimate' of the operation.

Ray, I kinda thought the same thing ...

Usually it takes years to hear any details of Israeli ops ...

Gregg

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SBARC

SBARC

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The article states...."IT was just after midnight when the 69th Squadron of Israeli F15Is crossed the Syrian coast-line. On the ground, Syria’s formidable air defences went dead. An audacious raid on a Syrian target 50 miles from the Iraqi border was under way."

How is it possible to shut down the air defense network?

Steve B

PS.....I've cleaned up this thread.

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Waco

Waco

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How is it possible to shut down the air defense network?

Steve-

Aside from the obvious Kolja nod (JAMMED!!! Raspberry Jam! Only one man would give me the raspberrry!), you're not gonna get much in the way of an answer on that.

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Dave Williams

Dave Williams

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Posted (edited)
Anybody know if markings from that -15I squadron are available?

I believe that 69 Squadron is the only active F-15I squadron, except for a few birds with the T&E Squadron. The most current (2006/2007) decals for 69 Sqn Ra'ams are the new Sky's Decal sheet No. 23/24/25 (all 3 scales) and the new Isradecals sheets (IAF-49 in 1/48 and IAF-45 in 1/72). Sky's also did an earlier sheet, as did Isradecals. Just search Sprue Brothers or Hannants for "F-15I" and some of the sheets.

The markings really haven't changed much over time. About the only difference I know of is the large eagle head on the tail, which was only applied to a few aircraft. Previously, only one aircraft, #267, had a smaller version of the eagle head back in 2001. Only the newer Sky's and Isra sheets have the newer large eagle head. Most F-15Is just have a number and the squadron badge, which you get off any of the sheets. HTH.

Edited by Dave Williams
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Raymond

Raymond

Posted
Posted (edited)

compiled sam map from KP

pink is SA-5

red is SA-2 (and HQ-2 as well in some cases)

green is SA-6

and light blue is SA-3

SA-10/20 are red as well - larger red ring.

red box is where violation took place

a1fc34ea76.jpg

Edited by Raymond
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4scourge7

4scourge7

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On the subject of decals, I`ve knocked Isracast over their F-15I conversion in 72nd (because it ain`t good) so it is only fair that I take this opportunity to say that Isradecal`s F-15I sheet is one of the best I`ve ever used for any model. It simply ticks every box; strength, accuracy, detail, very fine, and grouped stencils, just bloomin` fantastic! :D

If that is what they trot out in 72nd for the Ra`am, you can bet the larger scales are top notch too.

Bah! Can`t get link to work coz am fik, but I did a Ra`am with Isra decals for the F-15 Group build.

There isn`t a hard and fast rule about Israeli markings (Eagle head or no eagle head) so reference will be required for specific aircraft. Apart from being able to build any of 69 Sqn`s jets there is also markings for the MANAT test centre.

Isra also do a superb reference book for the Ra`am.

It`s worth doing a Ra`am just for the experience of using Isra`s excellent decals, a real joy!

Cheers, Ian

Edited by Ian Buick
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Chappie

Chappie

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Posted
compiled sam map from KP

pink is SA-5

red is SA-2 (and HQ-2 as well in some cases)

green is SA-6

and light blue is SA-3

SA-10/20 are red as well - larger red ring.

red box is where violation took place

a1fc34ea76.jpg

By looking at this map, I would love to know what their ingress and egress routes were.

Chappie

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ChernayaAkula

ChernayaAkula

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<...> a case of wanting to make sure 1) the right thing got lazed and 2) no DMPIs were missed due to lack of lazing. <...>

I also believe these are the reasons behind that.

Whatever the reason, it must be a very good one. Good enough for the Israelis to put a commando team in harm's way. <...>

I wonder how they got them there? By helo or by plane?

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Johnopfor

Johnopfor

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I seem to remember a story concerning a sea battle between Syrian and Israeli missile boats during the 1973 War off of the coast of Latika. The Syrians had a missile boat fleet about twice as large as the Israelis, and they were armed with the much more powerful Styx anti-ship missile whixh also had a much longer range than the Israeli Gabreil. The Syrians launched all of thier missiles, but every single missile missed by a very wide margin. Once the Israelis' Gabriels were in range, they fired, obliterating most of the Syrian boats. To this day, the Israelis refuse to talk about what it was that the used to jam the Styx missiles.

Edited by Johnopfor
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hatchet

hatchet

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Posted
I found a few things interesting in that article. For starters, that's the first confirmation of ANY type that I've seen with regards to the type of aircraft involved. Second, while there was lots of talk about the F-16Is and their use in Lebanon last year, I don't recall a whole lot of "real world" employment of F-15Is before. It'd be interesting to try and identify how many times they've actually been used in operations to date.

Finally, I also found it interesting that they felt the need to have ground teams in place to laze the target. The F-15I, of all the aircraft in Israel's inventory, has close to, if not THE best autonomous search-ID-track/target-engage capability. I was a little surprised that they'd used off-board cueing for the weapons.

Regardless of target set, I can't think of many times I've heard of them using the F-15Is...

Anybody know if markings from that -15I squadron are available?

I'm just an armchair tactician (and, judging by how I fare in pc strategy games, not a very good one), but I would guess that the F-15Is are being kept at home as some sort of strategic weapon (range-wise, not loadout). If they need to put a GBU-28 down someones throat, they're nice to have on alert.

According to the Ra'am book, the big Eagle-head was applied to half the aircraft. Base-CO then stopped it, because he didn't like the look.

The Eagle-heads are on the new 1/72 and 1/48 sheets from Isra. I haven't seen the new Sky's sheets, anyone got a link?

:cheers:

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Dave Williams

Dave Williams

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The Eagle-heads are on the new 1/72 and 1/48 sheets from Isra. I haven't seen the new Sky's sheets, anyone got a link?

:rofl:

http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?FULL=SD32025

Note that the common instruction sheet isn't quite right for 1/32 scale. Because of the size of the big scale sheet, it doesn't have the 2001 small version of the eagle heads for #267, just the large eagle heads. The 48th and 72nd sheets have both heads.

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Julien (UK)

Julien (UK)

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I can see the need for a ground team.

This ensure the correct target is hit, first time and correctly with out any other damage the Syrians could go on TV with.

It also ensure you dont have high valuble assets trawling around lasing for the other aircraft. Straight in and out, less dangers from any parts of the SAm netowrk who get on line and also from any Man Pad threat if there is one.

Would like to know how they went about getting rid of the sam threat but probably never will :rofl:

Just my 2p

Julien

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