Scratch-Building 1/72 Vickers Vincent

[Old Man]

The Vincent was a large 'general purpose' biplane intended for colonial policing duties in the Near East. It was derived from the Vildebeest torpedo bomber, and was essentially that machine with slightly different equipments attached. Appearing in 1935, a number of Vincents survived to see active servive in the Middle East during the war, at Aden with No. 8 squadron and in Sudan with "D Flight" (later 430 and 1430 Army Co-Operation Flight) of No. 47 squadron against Italian forces, and in Iraq and Iran with No. 244 squadron, during the 'Golden Square' rebellion in the former, and in the deposing of the first Shah in the latter.

Here is the 'kit'....

References are drawings by Mr. Stair from 'Aviation News', articles from Aeroplane Monthly on the Vincent and Vildebeeste, including a cut-away drawing of the latter, sent me long ago by an excellent gentleman in Australia, Mr. Dave Loughhead, and a copy of 'Air Publication 1439', an Air Ministry manual on the Vildebeest, obtained from the folks at World War One Aeroplanes, Inc., who maintain an extraordinary reference collection of primary and period materials on aircraft of the early days before WWII. I am also using Mr. Shores' 'Dust Clouds in the Middle East' and Mr. Lucas' "Britain Alone' monograph.

While most of my references are for the Vildebeest, this is not a problem, as external differences were minimal. The Vincent replaced the torpedo 'crutch' of the Vildebeest with a rack for a large external fuel tank, and added a message hook and a larger oil cooler. The external fuel tank must have required some alteration of the fuel feed system, and certainly added a pump, but my ignorance of the precise details here should not affect producing a decent model inside and out of the Vincent.

I am still undecided on whether I will finish this as a machine of No. 8 at Aden or of the various detatched flights administered by No. 47 squadron in the Sudan. The former employed a very interesting color scheme, but saw only limited combat service over British Somalia; the latter have a plainer camouflage scheme, but had a sustained combat career, including participation in the offensive at Gallabat, and in the climactic battle of the theater at Keren.

Edited December 4, 2007 by Old Man

[The Mikester]

Excellent! Looking forward to watching this one's progress, your other scratch builds are too cool.

[Old Man]

I began working on the wings. These are made from 2mm sheet, cut and filed to match copies of the plan view taped onto the raw sheet, and filed and scraped into air-foil section, with dihedral added by scoring the undersurface, bending to match the drawings, and fixing with CA gel.

This is the lower wing blank, shaped but without dihedral or ribbing or aileron detail:

The upper wings were somewhat trickier, owing to the presence of two fuel tanks in the wing panels, which are thicker in section than the general run of the wing, but follow the airfoil section, and fair down on either side. The obvious method of applique did not work out well, as the edges 'feathered' badly where they had to coincide with raised rib detail. I wound up making rectangular blanks for the tanks, piercing the wings to receive them, cutting recesses to receive the fairing portions, and filing all to section once assembled.

Here is the upper wing completed with detached ailerons. The ribs detail is added by scraping with a curved blade to leave slightly raised ridges, the leading edge 'riblets' are put in with a rat-tail file. I am not a fan of seperating control surfaces, but in this instance it is neccessary, because the leading edges of the ailerons have leading edge 'riblets', and there is no way I can get that effect on them except as seperate pieces.

[Old Man]

With wings more or less in hand I have turned to the fuselage. The basic method is to construct an armature on which to assemble the surfaces of the fuselage, and then destroy most of the armature to leave fuselage halves. There are always variations to suit particular projects, of course. The Vincent fuselage is basically a rectangle with rounded corners, with a high curved top decking in the crew area, and some severe curving at the very front to match the base of the wholly exposed Pegasus engine.

The armature is prepared by cutting cutting copies of the profile drawing and taping these to .5 mm sheet, then cutting these to match the drawings. These are then taped together, and sections are cut out from the drawing, split, and adjusted to take into account the .5mm thickness of the projected fuselage pieces, are glued on at the proper points. In this instance the forward sections were also trimmed at their bottoms to accommodate 2mm sheet under the crew compartment where the lower wings will be attached, and the section will go from pure rectangle to curved corners. Cockpit flooring will blank the seam out from view through the cockpit openings.

Next the fuselage sides, and bottom pieces, are attached to the armature. The sides are again cut to copies of the plan taped onto the plastic: the top and bottom of the sides is the point at which curve for top decking and corners begins.

Here are the basic fuselage elements seperated but still on the armature elements. I added some heavy sheet on the bottom on the rear portion of the fuselage, between section pieces, to freeze the taper towards the rudder-post. The heavy sheet has been filed down to match the fuselage sides, and taper on the bottom in the rear. I added a blank spacer at the nose to keep the sides at a proper distance in future.

Here are the fuselage pieces off the armature, and with surfaces painted and with longerons and verticals added. By using only a few 'dots' of CA gel for affixing, it is easy to remove the section pieces by slipping a knife-point into void areas of the seam, and only a little scraping and sanding is required for clean-up. I am going to be extending the fuselage sides a bit at the nose: I cut on panel lines to be sure of their matching, but they really should extend to the point where the curving in to meet the motor begins in plan view. There was fairly extensive 'glazing' on the sides of the Vincent to light the bomb-aimer's position below the pilot's seat. The fabric sides show the bleeding of protective iron oxide dope through un-bleached linen: to get this effect, I stipple with a wash of a Model Master enamel color, 'British Crimson', that is a pretty good match for the tone of the dope (P.C. 12), and then go over this with a wash of Pollyscale 'Deck Tan'.

[Old Man]

Excellent! Looking forward to watching this one's progress, your other scratch builds are too cool.

Thank you, Sir!

I appreciate your interest, and hope this one turns out well. It is still early days....

[Chuck1945]

I have the Kiwi resin Vincent, that is enough of a challenge for me.

Yours looks to be a very ambitious undertaking. I also, will be following your project.

[Old Man]

I have the Kiwi resin Vincent, that is enough of a challenge for me.

Yours looks to be a very ambitious undertaking. I also, will be following your project.

Thank you, Sir!

What is the Kiwi kit like? I had gotten the impression it had a solid fuselage, which is one of the reasons why I continued my resolve to do this from scratch after I found out it existed.

[Chuck1945]

...What is the Kiwi kit like? I had gotten the impression it had a solid fuselage, which is one of the reasons why I continued my resolve to do this from scratch after I found out it existed.

You are mostly correct. The Kiwi fuselage is solid except for the upper portion of the forward fuselage where the cockpit goes. The basic fuselage is hollowed out here and then has a shell for the upper decking from the observers position forward to the engine. The casting is solid, a couple of small bubbles in the wings, white metal (Aeroclub?) engine and markings for several different Vincents.

[Touvdal]

Very interesting projekt, nice to see some biplanes.

I will follow this build with interess, seing how to scratchbuild.

Might try it some time.

cheers

Jes

[ch9862]

Great subject - I'll be watching with interest!

[Old Man]

Thank you for your interest, Gentlemen!

I will be back to the work tomorrow evening, and expect to get another good bite done and photographed by the weekend.

[Mark M.]

I really WANT to stop clicking the threads you put up, OM. You give me such an inferiority complex! :)

But when I see them a compulsion takes over and I have to click! What follows is a feeling of inadequacy and admiration :)

Scratch built, no less! Looks great!

[Old Man]

I really WANT to stop clicking the threads you put up, OM. You give me such an inferiority complex!

But when I see them a compulsion takes over and I have to click! What follows is a feeling of inadequacy and admiration :D

Scratch built, no less! Looks great!

Thank you, Sir!

Though I do read this with mixed feelings, as I know you are an excellent modeler. Certainly Mr. Sky King, and Mr. Migrant, among others, sometimes leave thinking I should down tools and take up something else.

Scratch-building is as much the nerve to decide on it, if not more, than it is any particularly high level of skill....

[Old Man]

Well, Gentlemen, here is the next bite....

I have done the interior rigging and added the extentions at the nose, whuch enabled me to complete the structural tubing there. I have added the floor in the rear portion of the crew area, and begun side-wall detail in the wireless operator/air gunner's office, including firing steps with stored Lewis drums. These last gave me a bad moment, as when going to install them I realized had got the bay in that area 1 mm larger on the port side than the starboard. Correcting this required re-doing a quarter of the interior rigging. The interior rigging is from 'invisible thread' monofilament, and was done in two continuous runs on each side.

Above is the starboard side, showing corrugated floor, seats for crew members in the folded up position, and some of the radio equipment and wiring.

Above is the port side, showing the reel and conduit for the auxiliary traing antenna and its wiring. The vertical member which stops abruptly mates to the top of the port firing step.

[Mark M.]

What is a firing step?

[Old Man]

What is a firing step?

Many of the later machines that still employed a WWI style gun ring mounting had a fuselage that was so deep that the floor of the gunner's cockpit was too low to provide him an optimum position to work the gun, especially for firing at targets on the ground, which the principal use of the gun in machines employed in colonial policing. So something raised up a bit was provided for the man to stand on along the sides of the compartment. In this case, the rectangular foot-locker looking things that have the fronts of Lewis drums showing. Some of the radio equipments were tucked inside the starboard firing step on the starboard side of the Vincent/Vildebeest. It must have ben pretty awkward to change drums on the Lewis, as the man would have to reach down to below his feet to get a new one.

[Old Man]

A fair amount of progress since last time, Gentlemen. I have extended the floor to do the bomb-aiming position, which necessitated trimming back the thick sheet at the bottom a bit and replacing some of it with .5 mm sheet, and making a new floor section, which I matched back to the foremost cross-piece to eliminate any apparent seam after trimming off some the initial floor. I have filled the window openings with five thousandths clear sheet. Side-wall detail outside the pilot's office is pretty much complete, and I have begun working on the pilot's perch.

This is the starboard side. The large black square is the electrical junction box; the black rectangle by the floor cut-out is the bomb-aimer's selection panel, determining which of the various racks will be triggered by throwing the little lever just behind it; the green protrubance is the mounting for the bomb-sight, slung underneath. There is a map-case on the wall under the window. The two 'horns' are rocking levers that are part of the control linkages for elevators and rudder. The green strip near the bottom is a shield for control lines passing aft.

This is the port side. The maze of brass-colored rod at the top is the piping for the compressed-air starter system, incorporating a storage bottle and pump and pressure gauge. The large silver item at the bottom is a fuel pump: this is conjectural, but something must have been present to employ the fuel in the belly tank, and this is the best place for it. The copper lines below the longeron are fuel lines from the wing tanks; the silver rod above the longeron are control rods to jettison fuel from the wing tanks in an emergency. After knocking the port firing step from its perch on the floor during some test-fittings, I have attached it to the wall here instead.

Here is the pilot's seat and 'perch', including the rudder bar and stick linkages. The stick will attach at the green at the end of the silver torque bar, but I will not make and add it for a while. The 'horns' at the ends of the silver cross-piece are rocking levers that will be connected by rods to the forward horns on the fuselage sides. This assembly goes above the bomb-aimer's position, its rear element engaging the foremost vertical fuselage strut, and at a slant parallel to that of the upper longeron. I am leaning towards attaching this to the starboard side for further work in the pilot's office, but have not yet decided definitely.

[Chuck1945]

looking good.

[Denis]

Old Man, this is an outstanding project, once more, and mastered by a Master !!!

I will follow your lesson in scratchbuilding with great interest, Sir !

A stupid question : do you have references for the color of the fuselage framing ? Was the Interior Green already in use ?

I use to work on a Fairey Fox, belgian build version, but british design of the same period, and wondered if your findings could apply to my modest build... I started it the hard way with a Dujin rough resin, the fuselage is now hollowed... scratchbuilding a new one would probably have been easier work!

Your technique for the internal side of the fabric will indeed be followed.

Denis

P.S. I just found the photos of the restaured aircraft in the other thread in Classic Aviation, I did not noticed it at first ... So now I have an answer !

Edited December 18, 2007 by Denis

[Old Man]

looking good.

Thank you, Sir!

[Old Man]

Old Man, this is an outstanding project, once more, and mastered by a Master !!!

I will follow your lesson in scratchbuilding with great interest, Sir !

A stupid question : do you have references for the color of the fuselage framing ? Was the Interior Green already in use ?

I use to work on a Fairey Fox, belgian build version, but british design of the same period, and wondered if your findings could apply to my modest build... I started it the hard way with a Dujin rough resin, the fuselage is now hollowed... scratchbuilding a new one would probably have been easier work!

Your technique for the internal side of the fabric will indeed be followed.

Denis

P.S. I just found the photos of the restaured aircraft in the other thread in Classic Aviation, I did not noticed it at first ... So now I have an answer !

Thank you, Sir!

My understanding is that the English began to use the green some time in 1933, but I cannot point to a single source stating it authoritatively. The several possible subjects photographed in "Dust Clouds in the Middle East" were all from production runs in 1935/36, and served with units in Iraq before being transfered to units in Sudan and Aden in 1939. I expect they were overhauled when this was done, and so think it likely their finish in all aspects was up to the standard of that period, whatever it might have been at their delivery.

How did hollowing a resin fuselage go. Sir? I have done almost no work with resin, and am shy of materials I am not familiar with, which keeps a couple of Chorosky-Bud kits I bought years ago deep in the store of 'someday' projects. I think the Fox is from before the green finish was employed, if you mean the light bomber that preceded the Hart. I have read that steel tube at that time in English machines was finished in black stove enamel. I am uncertain whether the inside of metal panels was left bare, or painted with the 'battleship grey' in use since WWI, and black and white pictures are no help with that.

[Denis]

Dear Old Man,

hollowing out that (censored) fuselage was a (censored)....

Actually that miserable kit is an hybrid , having a fuselage split in two halves, but the halves are hollow only in the cockpit area in the same manner as these one-piece-fuselage resin kits.

I want to model a belgian Fox, that is a more modern variant of the RAF machine, with all metal structure, see

http://www.baha.be/Webpages/Navigator/Phot.../fairey_fox.htm

This aircraft has a widely open cockpit, so I started removing resin with a small power tool. I quickly stopped, considering the large amount of resin dust produced... and thinking of toxic issues. I then finished with a small chisel, removing small lump after small lump...but this took quite a long time, as you can guess ! I made this work in many short sessions over a few month. I now have fuselage halves similar to those of a normal plastic kit

Photos of the interior of the Fox are rare, at least, but I eventually found some, that show a light color for the framing, it could be grey or green, or an aluminium laquer. There is a wooden frame in the cockpit, similar to what is inside a Fairey Swordfish, that seems to be the same color as the framing.

[Old Man]

Interior detailing is complete below the 'top layer' now, and the next step will be to join the fuselage pieces together, and add top and bottom deckings. Once that is done, I expect a good deal of this will not be readily visible, but I enjoy doing it, and learn a good deal about how these vintage machines worked in the process.

This is the port side, with throttle controls attached on the upper longeron. The wheel is the control for the tail-plane incidence, with linkage going back through the crew area. It is a bit less than 3.5mm in diameter. It was necessary to redo the compressed air cylinder to a smaller diameter to allow the linkage to lie flat. The silver painted .25mm rods stretching forward from the 'horns' by the window are tie-rod linkages to the stick and rudder pedal controls..

Here is the starboard side, with the pilot's 'perch' attached, and tubular frame-work assembled behind it. Various pipings for the starter system and brake system have been added. The black rectangle under the upper longeron is the pilot's bomb rack selector panel: bombs could be dropped from either the bomb-aimer's or the pilot's position. You can see the tie-rod linkages for the elevator and rudder attacked at both ends here.

Here is a look at the pilot's 'perch' in place from the front, with a look at the frame-work behind it.

[Old Man]

Dear Old Man,

hollowing out that (censored) fuselage was a (censored)....

Actually that miserable kit is an hybrid , having a fuselage split in two halves, but the halves are hollow only in the cockpit area in the same manner as these one-piece-fuselage resin kits.

I want to model a belgian Fox, that is a more modern variant of the RAF machine, with all metal structure, see

http://www.baha.be/Webpages/Navigator/Phot.../fairey_fox.htm

This aircraft has a widely open cockpit, so I started removing resin with a small power tool. I quickly stopped, considering the large amount of resin dust produced... and thinking of toxic issues. I then finished with a small chisel, removing small lump after small lump...but this took quite a long time, as you can guess ! I made this work in many short sessions over a few month. I now have fuselage halves similar to those of a normal plastic kit

Photos of the interior of the Fox are rare, at least, but I eventually found some, that show a light color for the framing, it could be grey or green, or an aluminium laquer. There is a wooden frame in the cockpit, similar to what is inside a Fairey Swordfish, that seems to be the same color as the framing.

That sounds like a hell of a project, Sir! Thank you for the 'blow by blow' account of it. I am glad to know resin can be worked like that.

Regarding interior colors, I see no reason to suppose the Belgian concern followed any English practices. Not everyone used the iron oxide dope undercoat the English did, and some countries employed bleached linens.

[Old Man]

I have managed a good deal of progress over the last monh, Gentlemen. The fuselage is assembled and shaped, including a notch to receive the lower wing, and the motor prepared.

Here are the initial pieces assembled, with bottom pieces on the rear added. Much of the cross-bracing structure will doubtless be invisible, but it keeps the thing to shape while doing other work.

Here is the upper rear decking added, as well as the bottom front piece. The foremost bit of rear decking is over the wireless operator/gunner's cockpit. It is thinned to under a hundredth of an inch, and will be pierced after the gun ring is made and installed. Since the gun ring should lap a little over the sides of the fuselage, I am waiting till all work on the fuselage sides is completed to do this. The bottom front piece, below the opening in the floor at the bomb-aimer's position, has been given a 'rounded channel' contour on its inner surface.

Here is the start of the process of adding the raised decking in the cockpit area. The first piece, immediately behind the 'extra' station behind the pilot's cockpit, is solid, prepared from a laminate of two pieces of 2mm sheet, and filed to the proper contour: it front provides the rear bulkhead of the 'extra' station, and the bulkhead of a radio equipment compartment immediately behind it. A bulkhead shaped to the proper conture divides the pilot's and 'extra' cockit openings.

Here are the deckings in place. They are made from 0.15" sheet, rolled to the proper curve and glued in place. After finish sanding, the openings are cut through. There is an extension at the front of the pilot's decking, made from 2mmx.25mm strip: this is pierced through on the starboard side for a round window intended to shed some extra light on the instrument panel, which was later put in from the front, fitted inder the forward lip of this piece. The notch showing in the photograph is to accommodate the breech of the pilot's Vickers gun, which is a prominent feature of the cockpit, and enclosed by a fairing on the outside of the machine.