Harder & Steebeck question

[jrallman]

I have searched this forum for an answer to this, and while people have alluded to it and mentioned it, I haven't been able to find a straight answer. What are the differences between the Infinity and the Evolution? From what I can tell, it looks like the Infinity has the option of getting the trigger tension knob and the open rear assembly for releasing the needle without removing the rear cover. Is that all? Seems like quite a price difference for just that. Thanks for any input.

Edited February 6, 2008 by jrallman

[speedlimit]

I have searched this forum for an answer to this, and while people have alluded to it and mentioned it, I haven't been able to find a straight answer. What are the differences between the Infinity and the Evolution? From what I can tell, it looks like the Infinity has the option of getting the trigger tension knob and the open rear assembly for releasing the needle without removing the rear cover. Is that all? Seems like quite a price difference for just that. Thanks for any input.

Hey Jay are you talking about airbrush or cars? LOL

Eric

[Av8fan]

Its a good question.

I dont know if you have seen these pages yet:

H&S Evo

H&S Infinity

[niart17]

wow, that infinity looks nice! I like the distance attachment for doing straight lines...that's cool.

I don't know the differences, it appears like the adjustablilty on the infinity is greater and it has more bells and whistles, but i don't own either, so i'm basically just talking hot air. Both look like nice brushes.

[habu2]

Hey Jay are you talking about airbrush or cars? LOL

I was gonna guess theology...

[MikeV]

While I am sure they are excellent airbrushes, I wonder why someone would want to buy a product that is so hard to get parts for? If you drop a needle and have no spare it takes forever to get one as the distributor is so far away. Whatever. Just my humble opinion.

[PBoilermaker]

While I am sure they are excellent airbrushes, I wonder why someone would want to buy a product that is so hard to get parts for? If you drop a needle and have no spare it takes forever to get one as the distributor is so far away. Whatever. Just my humble opinion.

H&S has multiple US dealers with reasonable prices. Spare parts at a good price are not hard to get at all.

EDIT: Here you go -> http://germanairbrush.com/dealers.html

Edited February 6, 2008 by PBoilermaker

[BOC262]

I own an Infinity. As I understand it, the main difference between the Infinity and the Evolution is with the Infinity you can pull the needle out of the front of the brush for cleaning. That way is quicker, as there is less disassembly involved, and since you are not pulling a dirty (paint covered) needle through the guts of the airbrush, the whole brush will stay cleaner, longer, with less need to break it down for a thorough cleaning.

The Infinity also has different "limiter" mechanism for restricting the maximum amount of paint flow.

The price difference, IMHO, is you're paying for the convenience/advanced features on the Infinity, and H&S has positioned it to be their top of the line brush.

I like my Infinity a LOT. Coming from 30 years of using a Passche H was like changing from a Ford Model T to a Lamborghini.

[PBoilermaker]

I own an Infinity. As I understand it, the main difference between the Infinity and the Evolution is with the Infinity you can pull the needle out of the front of the brush for cleaning. That way is quicker, as there is less disassembly involved, and since you are not pulling a dirty (paint covered) needle through the guts of the airbrush, the whole brush will stay cleaner, longer, with less need to break it down for a thorough cleaning.

The Infinity also has different "limiter" mechanism for restricting the maximum amount of paint flow.

The price difference, IMHO, is you're paying for the convenience/advanced features on the Infinity, and H&S has positioned it to be their top of the line brush.

I like my Infinity a LOT. Coming from 30 years of using a Passche H was like changing from a Ford Model T to a Lamborghini.

I love mine, too!

[MikeV]

H&S has multiple US dealers with reasonable prices. Spare parts at a good price are not hard to get at all.

EDIT: Here you go -> http://germanairbrush.com/dealers.html

But do they have a lifetime warranty like Badger? I didn't think so. :D

I just looked at one link......$40 for a nozzle?

Sounds like they are just as overpriced as Iwata.

Edited February 6, 2008 by MikeV

[metroman]

My Evolutions needle can be removed from the front, but as to your question I don't know what differences there are.

The above post about spare parts being lengthy to obtain is out of date, as the website mentioned (in Florida) has all the parts and has helped me out several times with things. PReviously you had to send to Obeeliks in Belgium and pay and wait, but thankfully things have gotten better.

You'll not regret your purchase, it is an expertly crafted piece that will endure; and do post some of your work when you get it running.

Regards,

Brian

Edited February 6, 2008 by metroman

[Av8fan]

The pricing for parts for the H&S needs to be looked at a bit more.

the $43 dollar price includes:

nozzle, air cap, needle cap, and needle.

For example a single .15 nozzle without needle is $15.64

The .15 needle is $10.24.

Jrallman, buy what you like. You know what you can afford, and afford to support parts wise.

Heck, I have yet to use my Infinity, but this year for sure.

I have no doubt that some of the badger brushes are very good. I have yet to use them, so I cant speak to the line.

Edited for trying to make a bit more sense

Edited February 7, 2008 by Av8fan

[PBoilermaker]

But do they have a lifetime warranty like Badger? I didn't think so.

I have a Badger, too...http://www.badgerbadgerbadger.com/

I just looked at one link......$40 for a nozzle?

Sounds like they are just as overpriced as Iwata.

High quality instruments command higher prices. As AV8's post points out, you need to look closer at what you get for your money, but it's absurd to bash something just because it is too expensive for your tastes.

[Isaac]

I bash monster cable all the time. LOL.

[niart17]

well, i don't want to stir the pot too much, as obviously some people have very strong opinions about their particular brand of brushes.....BUT...

based on discussions i've had with some professional airbrush artists, badgers are pretty good brushes, fairly reliable and relatively inexpensive, the ford of airbrushes if you will. nothing wrong with them and they will get the job done. especially for hobby work like we mostly do building models.

but some of these german made brushes such as H & S are really more like german made cars. more precise machining, tighter tolerences and in general just better "feeling" brushes. and like a porsche, with proper maintainance and care, you can do some amazing stuff, but not really cheap either. (although apparently not as expensive as i thought they were)

So according to them, it basically a matter of what you want, economy with pretty good performance. or precision and autobahn capable speeds? there is nothing wrong with either one.

So not knocking the badger (as that's the brush i use currently, my trusty Ford if you will) but i really would love to get the H & S. and take that sucker out on the open road.

Just my two cents. sorry for stealing the thread temporarily.

Bill

Edited February 7, 2008 by niart17

[PBoilermaker]

well, i don't want to stir the pot too much, as obviously some people have very strong opinions about their particular brand of brushes.....BUT...

based on discussions i've had with some professional airbrush artists, badgers are pretty good brushes, fairly reliable and relatively inexpensive, the ford of airbrushes if you will. nothing wrong with them and they will get the job done. especially for hobby work like we mostly do building models.

but some of these german made brushes such as H & S are really more like german made cars. more precise machining, tighter tolerences and in general just better "feeling" brushes. and like a porsche, with proper maintainance and care, you can do some amazing stuff, but not really cheap either. (although apparently not as expensive as i thought they were)

So according to them, it basically a matter of what you want, economy with pretty good performance. or precision and autobahn capable speeds? there is nothing wrong with either one.

So not knocking the badger (as that's the brush i use currently, my trusty Ford if you will) but i really would love to get the H & S. and take that sucker out on the open road.

Just my two cents. sorry for stealing the thread temporarily.

Bill

Excellent analogy. I agree.

-Mike

[Chuck1945]

Jay,

in response to your question regarding the H&S Evolution and Infinity, I have both so I think I can answer.

The parts that matter - nozzle, and needle are the same for both. Evolutions have a dial to control air where the hose connects to the brush, but I never use this, preferring to control at the compressor. The infinity has a knurled adjustment wheel to set a needle movement limiter and as such is supposed to be repeatable, while the one on the Evolution lacks presets. Again this is feature of no particular importance to me, but ymmv.

Both are hands down easier to take apart for cleaning then the Iwata HP-C they replaced, and both permit the needle to be withdrawn from the front. The Inifinty wins on overall cool appearance, but if I had it to do over, I would not have bought the Infinity and continued to just change out needles and tips on the Evolution. As it stands now, the Infinity has the smaller paint cup attached and the 0.15mm tip and needle combo, while the Evolutionhas the larger paint cup and the 0.4mm tip/needle combo.

Buy either with confidence, the differences are more cosmetic then real in my estimation.

[MikeV]

well, i don't want to stir the pot too much, as obviously some people have very strong opinions about their particular brand of brushes.....BUT...

based on discussions i've had with some professional airbrush artists, badgers are pretty good brushes, fairly reliable and relatively inexpensive, the ford of airbrushes if you will. nothing wrong with them and they will get the job done. especially for hobby work like we mostly do building models.

but some of these german made brushes such as H & S are really more like german made cars. more precise machining, tighter tolerences and in general just better "feeling" brushes. and like a porsche, with proper maintainance and care, you can do some amazing stuff, but not really cheap either. (although apparently not as expensive as i thought they were)

So according to them, it basically a matter of what you want, economy with pretty good performance. or precision and autobahn capable speeds? there is nothing wrong with either one.

So not knocking the badger (as that's the brush i use currently, my trusty Ford if you will) but i really would love to get the H & S. and take that sucker out on the open road.

Just my two cents. sorry for stealing the thread temporarily.

Bill

Well I would not consider Badger a "Ford" and the H&S as superior like a Porsche but you are entitled to your opinion. I had an Iwata and my Badger 100LG is just as smooth if not smoother so tolerances are not that much different. What it all boils down to is perception! People perceive one brand that is more expensive as being somehow superior but I disagree.

It is the hand wielding the airbrush that creates the art and not the brand or price of the airbrush!

Example:

This was painted with an Aztek which I consider one of the worst airbrushes out there:

This was painted by Dru Blair with a Badger Sotar 20/20:

High quality instruments command higher prices. As AV8's post points out, you need to look closer at what you get for your money, but it's absurd to bash something just because it is too expensive for your tastes.

It is not absurd, it is my opinion as is yours. Check out the prices of a head for an Iwata Micron and then tell me the price is worth it because it is "a high quality instrument." I don't buy it sorry.

Buy what you like and use it, that is the best bet. They are all well made capable instruments that can perform well enough for any modeling. Painting models is not near as complex as what some of the instruments were designed for.

My $.02 also and I am not trying to steal the thread either.

Edited February 7, 2008 by MikeV

[ScottD]

Well I would not consider Badger a "Ford" and the H&S as superior like a Porsche but you are entitled to your opinion. I had an Iwata and my Badger 100LG is just as smooth if not smoother so tolerances are not that much different. What it all boils down to is perception! People perceive one brand that is more expensive as being somehow superior but I disagree.

Iwata are slightly overrated IMO. I have had a couple and the Infinity is the best overall airbrush I've owned in the past 20 years. It stands up to wear and tear better then any Iwata or its close cousin, the Tamiya Super Fine airbrush and is far easier to clean to boot.

As for Badger, I got a Badge 200 just to do single coats because I wanted a larger bore airbrush, I used it a total of three times before I noticed that the nozzle had a tear in it. I got a new nozzle, put it in, then went to use it again...the stupid needle tore through the nozzle with out me even using it once! Now its just a paperweight, and I'll wind up dumping it on Ebay or something.

I would have been much better off getting the large bore needle for the Infinity to do the same thing. No other airbrush offers the same range in needle and nozzle sizes like the infinity does either, you can go from tiny .15 needle size to .6 needle just changing out the nozzle and needle on it. No other airbrush has that flexibilably from what I've seen. Not to mention all the compentions on the H&S airbrush are made out of Stainless steel like the nozzle and needles, not brass or mild steel like they are on all other brands.

[niart17]

It is the hand wielding the airbrush that creates the art and not the brand or price of the airbrush!

My $.02 also and I am not trying to steal the thread either.

i'm sorry, i hope you didn't take that as a stab at you, i agree, the instrument is just that, a tool. some artists can produce incredible work with a straw and some finger paint. for instance, i feel i draw better with a cheap ol yellow #2 pencil than with my $40 art pencil set. but there are differences in quality of the instrument itself. so it's really just what you're comfortable with and what you want to pay for.

again, i hope it didn't come across like an insult, it wasn't intended to be.

:lol:

Bill

[Av8fan]

The hand wielding the instrument has a lot to do with the result.

A good friend of mine has an a/b, but he just prefers to brush paint where he can.

And the results are fantastic.

I cant stand it lolol.

We compare built kits once in a great while and his work is just great.

[jrallman]

Thanks for all the responses guys. First, I too like Badger and Iwata. I have a Badger 175 and an Iwata HP-B. I was considering an H&S to keep as a fine detail AB only. My Iwata doesn't have an option of a .15 tip where the H&S does, so that is my reason for inquiring into the H&S line, plus they look easier to break down and maintain than my Iwata. Thanks again for the info guys.

[ThatJeffGuy]

plus they look easier to break down and maintain than my Iwata. Thanks again for the info guys.

That part I _can_ vouch for. No wrench required, needle comes out the front. The only thing that's

a little different is I have trouble putting it back in from the front.....it just seems to go in more

easily from the back-end but that might just be me. I think Chuck has mentioned before that he

inserts and removes from the front on his.

[MikeV]

i'm sorry, i hope you didn't take that as a stab at you, i agree, the instrument is just that, a tool. some artists can produce incredible work with a straw and some finger paint. for instance, i feel i draw better with a cheap ol yellow #2 pencil than with my $40 art pencil set. but there are differences in quality of the instrument itself. so it's really just what you're comfortable with and what you want to pay for.

again, i hope it didn't come across like an insult, it wasn't intended to be.

Bill

No Bill, not at all my friend, I was just making a point. ;)

[Chuck1945]

That part I _can_ vouch for. No wrench required, needle comes out the front. The only thing that's

a little different is I have trouble putting it back in from the front.....it just seems to go in more

easily from the back-end but that might just be me. I think Chuck has mentioned before that he

inserts and removes from the front on his.

I also like the ability to remove the needle from the front and the ability to remove the tip without the use of any special tools. If I were to remove the weight attached to the rear of my HP-C's needle, I guess it too would be front removable, but it would still need a special tool.

When I use either the Infinity or Evolution, I do remove the needle from the front, but I re-insert the needle from the rear. I also never store the brush with the needle/tip in the brush, rather I use the storage tubes that come with the H&S. I think this is a hold over from the days when I used a Badger 150 and too many times the needle would be stuck when it was left in - probably a function of my cleaning (or lack thereof).