Harder & Steebeck question

[BOC262]

I both remove and replace the needle of my Infinity through the front. Yes, there is a little bit of "resistance" when re-inserting the needle, but it doesn't really require any force to get it to move beyond that resistance. I wonder if perhaps you aren't loosening the needle retaining nut quite enough?

I also re-assemble the airbrush after it is dry after a cleaning, and have never had any problem with the needle sticking.

No criticisms--just my .02 cents. YMMV

[ThatJeffGuy]

I both remove and replace the needle of my Infinity through the front. Yes, there is a little bit of "resistance" when re-inserting the needle, but it doesn't really require any force to get it to move beyond that resistance. I wonder if perhaps you aren't loosening the needle retaining nut quite enough?

Nut is plenty loose but that little bit of resistance scared me off. Thanks, I'll give it a try next time I

use it.

:D

[PBoilermaker]

It is not absurd, it is my opinion as is yours. Check out the prices of a head for an Iwata Micron and then tell me the price is worth it because it is "a high quality instrument." I don't buy it sorry.

If the market didn't support the price Iwata charges for that part, it would be priced differently. They have a reputation for manufacturing tools of above-average quality and they can charge a premium. You don't have to "buy" anything, figuratively or literally.

Buy what you like and use it, that is the best bet.

Bingo.

J, you won't be disappointed with an H&S airbrush.

-Mike

[jrallman]

Another question about the two. I see that the Infinity has that neato looking spacer tip you can add on. If the Evolution uses the same needle and nozel, does that mean that that spacer tip will fit on it as well? I don't know if I would use it or not, but it might be nice to have the option.

[ThatJeffGuy]

If the nozzle is the same then it will fit....it's just another doo-dad (technical term ) that comes

with the 2-in-1 package. But the part can be ordered separately AFAIK. I think it would only be useful

in artwork / illustration though I might be wrong.

[MikeV]

Thanks for all the responses guys. First, I too like Badger and Iwata. I have a Badger 175 and an Iwata HP-B. I was considering an H&S to keep as a fine detail AB only. My Iwata doesn't have an option of a .15 tip where the H&S does, so that is my reason for inquiring into the H&S line, plus they look easier to break down and maintain than my Iwata. Thanks again for the info guys.

Jay,

What "fine detail" are you talking about and what paints are you using?

I highly doubt you will get modeling paints to reliably spray through a .15 mm tip in any airbrush.

Those tiny tips were designed for extremely fine pigments such as are found in inks and urethanes, not acrylics and enamels as us modelers use.

[asvennevik]

To the best of my knowledge the differences between the Infinity and Evolution are internal - the air channel is improved, and so is the paint channel I believe. This makes the Infinity spray somewhat better than the Evolution.

As for the 0.15mm nozzle I have had no problems spraying Gunze and Vallejo acrylics, no blockage, no paint build-up, just a very fine spray and a beautiful opaque coat.

Anders

[Chuck1945]

Another question about the two. I see that the Infinity has that neato looking spacer tip you can add on. If the Evolution uses the same needle and nozel, does that mean that that spacer tip will fit on it as well? I don't know if I would use it or not, but it might be nice to have the option.

This gets confusing because I don't have parts diagrams to use, but here goes. The spray end of the Evolution/Infinity use a two part design. The part the needle slips into I call the nozzle, and then the nozzle fits into the tip which in turn screws into the body of the brush. Both the Evolution and Infinity use the same needle/nozzle parts. Afaik, the tips that actually ship with the two models are distinct and different even though they are interchangable. The little stand tip gizmo is supposed to hold the tip a fixed distance from the surface and is, I suspect, of little use painting models. In fact, I do not even have one. It slips over the tip, but since I do not have one (at least I could not find it amongst all the H&S parts I have in a little storage drawer) I can not verify that it would also fit the standard Evolution tip.

FWIW, even though the nozzle/needle is the same, I can get a tighter spray with the tip/nozzle/needle combo that ships with the Evolution. For some reason the more open tip of the Infinity seems to permit more over spray - may just be operator error, but I have started using Evolution style tips on both brushes.

I highly doubt you will get modeling paints to reliably spray through a .15 mm tip in any airbrush.

Gunze, Tamiya, and Xtracrlix all spray just fine using the 0.15mm tip Edited February 8, 2008 by Chuck1945

[metroman]

Me too, no probs shooting Gunze through the .15 setup. Only stuff that wouldn't go well was Alclad, but it's just a snap with the .4 size.

Brian

[MikeV]

Gunze, Tamiya, and Xtracrlix all spray just fine using the 0.15mm tip

Are these paints finer pigments than ever before or is H&S mistaken about that nozzle size?

Does the paint continue to flow well the whole time or are there difficulties?

I have had many of the top experts in the field tell me that these paints don't flow well through the .18 mm Micron B airbrush or even the .23 mm Micron C and yet you are doing it with a nozzle even smaller?

Something is fishy.

[David Walker]

I have had many of the top experts in the field tell me that these paints don't flow well through the .18 mm Micron B airbrush....

Apparently they were wrong.

Edited February 8, 2008 by David Walker

[Chuck1945]

MikeV:

Does the paint continue to flow well the whole time or are there difficulties?

Yes the paint continues to flow the whole time, and no, there were no difficulties although Tamiya's Flat Aluminium did have a little trouble with the 0.15mm tip, but the other colors I have used (WWII Luftwaffe mottling and mirror wave patterns in 1/72) have worked just fine. PollyScale however does not spray well, but then I had problems with PollyScale attempting to do fine lines in my Iwata and the Badger 150 I was using before that.

Can't address the Iwata Custom Micron since I have never used one, but regardless of what 'experts' have told you, I have consistently been able to spray Gunze and Tamiya (as well as Xtracrilix) using the H&S Evolution and Infinity brushes with a 0.15mm tip. If more area needs to be covered, this is not the best option, 0.2mm or 0.4mm will work better as the coverage area increases, bit the point here is that the 0.15mm tip does work.

[The 3rd Placer]

MikeV, You make a good point about those airbrush art examples, but I'm sure those are VERY large paintings....they are not in 72nd or 48th scale like the subjects we work on. I believe a modeler could make almost any airbrush "work". The "cheaper" or featureless ones would simply need aids such as masking templates etc. to achieve the same result.

Ryan (Infinity user )

[MikeV]

MikeV, You make a good point about those airbrush art examples, but I'm sure those are VERY large paintings....they are not in 72nd or 48th scale like the subjects we work on. I believe a modeler could make almost any airbrush "work". The "cheaper" or featureless ones would simply need aids such as masking templates etc. to achieve the same result.

Ryan (Infinity user )

The B-1 painting is 33" x 24" and I would imagine the other is around that size or smaller which I would not consider as very large.

Yes we do work on small aircraft scales, but what are we painting for the most part? Freehand Camo, and such is our normal work. Some German aircraft have a little more in depth paint schemes but I still say that can be done with practically any airbrush on the market and buying $300 Iwata Microns for modeling is total overkill unless you are planning on painting freehand nose art.

I believe that with practice you can spray just as fine of a line with a Badger 100LG as you can get with your Infinity, Iwata, Olympos, Grex, or any other using our modeling paints.

If people want to spend the money and try one because they like it then go for it, but let's not sway the less experienced airbrush users into thinking they are going to paint like Dru Blair because they bought the airbrush he or other well known artists use.

Edited February 8, 2008 by MikeV

[niart17]

Just something to point out about Dru Blair and other great artists. He uses a lot more than just an airbrush to get the level of photorealism he achieved. In a lot of his paintings, he uses x-acto knives to remove paint for fine fine lines, and he incorporates alot of Prismacolors for small detail work. Plus he's cutting friskets out tha wazoo.

It's one thing to be able to layer and layer and layer, and scrape and cut to get detail without worrying so much about the surface detail, for a lot of his paintings are sold as prints. But a model on the other hand, it's 3-dimensional, the surface texture has just as much to do with realism as do the colors....two totally different art processes.

this isn't an arguement btw, just something to think about when you look at wonderful airbrush artwork.

Bill

Edited February 8, 2008 by niart17

[upupandaway]

Jay,

in response to your question regarding the H&S Evolution and Infinity, I have both so I think I can answer. :)

The parts that matter - nozzle, and needle are the same for both. Evolutions have a dial to control air where the hose connects to the brush, but I never use this, preferring to control at the compressor. The infinity has a knurled adjustment wheel to set a needle movement limiter and as such is supposed to be repeatable, while the one on the Evolution lacks presets. Again this is feature of no particular importance to me, but ymmv.

Both are hands down easier to take apart for cleaning then the Iwata HP-C they replaced, and both permit the needle to be withdrawn from the front. The Inifinty wins on overall cool appearance, but if I had it to do over, I would not have bought the Infinity and continued to just change out needles and tips on the Evolution. As it stands now, the Infinity has the smaller paint cup attached and the 0.15mm tip and needle combo, while the Evolutionhas the larger paint cup and the 0.4mm tip/needle combo.

Buy either with confidence, the differences are more cosmetic then real in my estimation.

Hi!

After trying several cheaper airbrushes I decided top get me a H&S Evolution about one and a half years ago.

What I can say about it is, that although I don´t spray this particular metal color with it I have never had any problems with any paint ot paint flow. It is very well balanced, smooth to hold and really very easy and quick to clean.

The 0.2 needle works with all paints I use. I don´t know about the 0.15 needle since I haven´t really used it much yet but there as well I ahd no trouble. It´s just very fragile.

Only once in a while I clean the sealings because there´s only very little paint residue in the gun if cleaned thoroughly.

While I also found it rather pricy I must say that I never regretted buying it and even got some updates like a different end cap (~40€) and air control. This allows for presets for paint flow and can be switched on and off easily and quickly. The´ve also got different paint cups and you can use it without them when using just very small amounts of paint.

The Infinity:

I once read that the it is merely supposed to be used by graphic artists I believe. It´s got a fancier look :wacko: and those tips (at the front) are all meant for very special, less modeling-related purposes.

Sounds like an ad? I really like this airbrush and want to give it some credit! :D

Edited February 8, 2008 by upupandaway

[MikeV]

Just something to point out about Dru Blair and other great artists. He uses a lot more than just an airbrush to get the level of photorealism he achieved. In a lot of his paintings, he uses x-acto knives to remove paint for fine fine lines, and he incorporates alot of Prismacolors for small detail work. Plus he's cutting friskets out tha wazoo.

It's one thing to be able to layer and layer and layer, and scrape and cut to get detail without worrying so much about the surface detail, for a lot of his paintings are sold as prints. But a model on the other hand, it's 3-dimensional, the surface texture has just as much to do with realism as do the colors....two totally different art processes.

this isn't an arguement btw, just something to think about when you look at wonderful airbrush artwork.

Bill

I agree Bill and I am well aware of that my friend.

[Chuck1945]

MikeV

I believe that with practice you can spray just as fine of a line with a Badger 100LG as you can get with your Infinity, Iwata, Olympos, Grex, or any other using our modeling paints.

If people want to spend the money and try one because they like it then go for it, but let's not sway the less experienced airbrush users into thinking they are going to paint like Dru Blair because they bought the airbrush he or other well known artists use.

I understand what you are saying and at least partialy agree. A begining airbrush user is probably going to get a much bigger bang for the buck with a Badger 150 then with one of the higher end Iwatas or H&S models (although there are some Iwatas that are more at an entry level.

That said however, I know in my own case I started 40+ years ago with a Paasche H, upgraded several years later to a Badger 150, and then a Paasche VSR that was my first gravity feed model. Each airbrush purchase gave me the ability to do more detailed (finer lines) then the prior one. My only regret was a purchase of a Testors Aztek, while it probably was on par with the H or 150 in spray abilities, it never felt comfortable to use and I eventually tossed it.

I could not get the VSR to spray acrylics when I made the switch about 10 years ago so I went shopping for a new gravity feed model. I was all set to get a Badger 100 when I heard about Iwata and Dixie Art. I discovered I could buy a HP-C from Dixie Art for what a Badger 100 would have cost at my local art/hobby dealers. (~$100 at the time). Now I find my newer H&S airbrushes may not be a significant improvement over the HP-C in so far as actual spraying is concerned, but they are easier and more convenient to use then the Iwata.

[MikeV]

MikeV

I understand what you are saying and at least partialy agree. A begining airbrush user is probably going to get a much bigger bang for the buck with a Badger 150 then with one of the higher end Iwatas or H&S models (although there are some Iwatas that are more at an entry level.

That said however, I know in my own case I started 40+ years ago with a Paasche H, upgraded several years later to a Badger 150, and then a Paasche VSR that was my first gravity feed model. Each airbrush purchase gave me the ability to do more detailed (finer lines) then the prior one. My only regret was a purchase of a Testors Aztek, while it probably was on par with the H or 150 in spray abilities, it never felt comfortable to use and I eventually tossed it.

I could not get the VSR to spray acrylics when I made the switch about 10 years ago so I went shopping for a new gravity feed model. I was all set to get a Badger 100 when I heard about Iwata and Dixie Art. I discovered I could buy a HP-C from Dixie Art for what a Badger 100 would have cost at my local art/hobby dealers. (~$100 at the time). Now I find my newer H&S airbrushes may not be a significant improvement over the HP-C in so far as actual spraying is concerned, but they are easier and more convenient to use then the Iwata.

That's cool Chuck. As long as you are happy with what you use then all is good.

[jrallman]

Thanks again guys. I think I am leaning towards the Evolution Silverline and adding the .15 tip etc. I don't anticipate any problems with the paint pigments since I have had no trouble at all with the .2 tip on my Iwata, and others seem to have no trouble with the .15 tip. As for what detail I want to paint, it varies. Everything from complicated luftwaffe camo ot using it to add fine shading and lightening for weathering effects etc. While I can do most of this with my Iwata, the smaller tip will make it a bit easier to do the really fine stuff, plus the ease of having a front removable needle is a big plus too.

[Chuck1945]

My Evolution is also a Silverline, purchased as the 2-in-1 set with the 0.15mm and 0.4mm tips. If you intend to continue to use your Iwata as well, fine, but if you are contemplating making a switch to H&S (what I eventually did simply because the H&S was so much easier to clean) I would suggest also getting the 0.2mm needle and tip, especialy if you order it along with the rest (saves shipping).

The 0.15mm tip and needle are great for detailed work, but the extremely fine spray pattern means it takes longer to cover a given area - for general work the 0.2mm may be a better choice. I came to this conclusion after adding a 0.2mm set and found myself using it more then either of the other two sizes. Since you build in larger scales then I do, you may well find the 0.2mm set works fine. Something to think about at least :P

[Jose]

My Evolution is also a Silverline, purchased as the 2-in-1 set with the 0.15mm and 0.4mm tips. If you intend to continue to use your Iwata as well, fine, but if you are contemplating making a switch to H&S (what I eventually did simply because the H&S was so much easier to clean) I would suggest also getting the 0.2mm needle and tip, especialy if you order it along with the rest (saves shipping).

The 0.15mm tip and needle are great for detailed work, but the extremely fine spray pattern means it takes longer to cover a given area - for general work the 0.2mm may be a better choice. I came to this conclusion after adding a 0.2mm set and found myself using it more then either of the other two sizes. Since you build in larger scales then I do, you may well find the 0.2mm set works fine. Something to think about at least :P

Can you easily switch between the .2 and the .4mm? I couldn't get my Iwata Eclipse to give me any meaningful spray when I switched from a .35 to a .5mm set up.

Jose

[upupandaway]

Can you easily switch between the .2 and the .4mm? I couldn't get my Iwata Eclipse to give me any meaningful spray when I switched from a .35 to a .5mm set up.

Jose

Takes about one minute to switch between the tips. You just unscrew the tip in its housing, pull out the needle, screw on the new tip and insert the 0.4 needle.

[Jose]

Takes about one minute to switch between the tips. You just unscrew the tip in its housing, pull out the needle, screw on the new tip and insert the 0.4 needle.

Do you find having to change your PSI significantly in order to achieve consistent spray after changing the tip? I may have missed some of the earlier comments in the thread but my other questions are:

1. Do you use acrylics?

2. Does it have teflon packing?

3. What about service in the USA?

4. Who sells it in the USA?

I appreciate your comments,

Regards,

Jose

[Av8fan]

H&S has multiple US dealers with reasonable prices. Spare parts at a good price are not hard to get at all.

EDIT: Here you go -> http://germanairbrush.com/dealers.html

Here is the dealers list.