Question Phantom specialists - HAF slatted RF-4

[Eric B.]

Hi

Enclosed below a very interesting link on HAF (Greek) aircraft, beautiful photographs indeed

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/cgi-bin/ukarb...ST;f=43;t=44429

It serves to illustrate a new question..

Looking closer I discovered something I had never seen or knew of before on Phantom wings.

Whereas some RF-4Es have a common wing (for instance the previously German machine in green/green/black camo) with "leading edge flaps"

some probably are updated machines with ECM intake fairings a la F-4N. More interestingly they feature slatted wings that I thought were F-4E/G/S only devices (very visible on a left banking Phantom or another one taking off with afterburners - slat fairings also can be seen on front shots).

I had never seen slatted reco Phantoms or even been aware that some RF-4s were equipped with slatted wings. Anybody knows anything about this? Are there other reco Phantoms besides Greek a/c featuring slats equipped?

Greek Phantoms again!! Very interesting topic that is.

Cheers

Eric B.

[Dave Williams]

Some slatted wings RF-4Es were made for specific customers (Greece and Turkey). Generally, RF-4s were hard wing as the slatted wing was mostly developed to improve turning performance for air combat, which wasn't something RFs needed. I believe that both countries also got some ex-Luftwaffe hard wing RF-4s, so they operate both slatted and unslatted wing RF-4s as well as both recce noses.

Edited March 11, 2008 by Dave Williams

[Eric B.]

Thanks Dave,

Thank you for you kind reply. It confirms photos seen from the link with Greece operating ex German unslatted RF-4s and other machines equipped with slatted wings.

It also adds Turkey to my list of operators.

Another proof you learn everyday as I had never seen photos or read this information before..

Do you know if these aircraft were built new with slatted wings or were they retrofitted?

Cheers

Eric B.

[Jay Chladek]

I am pretty sure these planes were built new with slatted wings. I've heard towards the end of Phantom production when Greece and Turkey ordered some new build RF-4s, McD was tooled up to do slatted wings as they were essentially using the F-4E production line (the last variant they were producing). So these planes inherited the slatted wings as a result. I can't remember where I read that though.

[Eric B.]

Thanks Jay,

That is making RF-4 wings an interesting story. I knew last RF-4Bs inherited the thick wing for production line reasons. Now we have late RF-4Es inheriting the slatted wing for totally similar reasons;

It makes sense to me.

Cheers

Eric B.

[Double Ugly]

I am pretty sure these planes were built new with slatted wings. I've heard towards the end of Phantom production when Greece and Turkey ordered some new build RF-4s, McD was tooled up to do slatted wings as they were essentially using the F-4E production line (the last variant they were producing). So these planes inherited the slatted wings as a result. I can't remember where I read that though.

Yes you're right!

During the years 1977-78 the Hellenic Air Force received eight RF-4Es which joined the 348 Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron. The ECM fairings were added later, I think about 1983 and are the same shape as on the F-4Ns.

There are also two ECM antennas, one at the bottom of the radome...

...and another one on the parabrake door:

Also note that they have the "rounded" nose instead of the "streamlined" one on the ex-German airframes.

There are two mirrors on the rear canopy. The one on the photo might have been taken from an ex-German bird.

The stabilators are unslotted:

They were delivered in SEA camo. During the last years the existing aircraft have been repainted, but this time a lot more green have been applied.

Personally I don't like it:

The serial numbers:

77-0357 - 77-0358 (70357-70358) Two airframes, both of them w/o.

77-1761 - 77-1766 (71761-71766) Six airframes. 71761 and 71766 have been w/o.

[mmaker]

Eric,

all those RF-4E,equipped with intake ECM antennas,are 8 brand new US buys from the Peace Icarus II program.

(A4254 FY 77(GR))

77-0357 Military Assistance Program(MAP) Destroyed 10 Dec 79

77-0358 Military Assistance Program(MAP) Destroyed 11 Jul 85

77-1761 Direct Commercial Sale(DCS) Destroyed 7 May 87

77-1762 Direct Commercial Sale(DCS)

77-1763 Direct Commercial Sale(DCS)

77-1764 Direct Commercial Sale(DCS)

77-1765 Direct Commercial Sale(DCS)

77-1766 Direct Commercial Sale(DCS)

They came to Greece at 12 May 1980

Those Phantoms are just like USAF's RF-4C,with the same recon nose,slatted wings and non slotted stabilators.

Engines was J-79-17C with the longer exhausts,like those of the F-4E.

External differences from the Ex-Luftwaffe birds,are the more aerodynamic recon nose,slatted wings,formation lights strips(Ex-Luft doesnt have),different wing tips,doesnt have triangular strengthenings on stabilators, and the DIAS antennas.

[Eric B.]

Double Ugly and mmaker, as well as Jay and Dave thank you dearly for your kind and complete information.

Cheers

Eric B.

[yardbird78]

Interesting information to add to my Phantom library. Thanks.

Darwin

[Double Ugly]

If you wish to build one of these machines in 1/72 scale you have to get the E1, E2 parts from a Hasegawa F-4E. Then you can build an "early version" F-4E with the remaining parts but that's another story. These parts have the long wing fence (F-4S style) and you have to make the right ones for the F-4E version. See what I mean here.

You also have to use the W17 part for the camera bay door and the Q2, Q3, Q4 parts (provided in every 1/72scale Hasegawa F-4). You can take one of these Q-parts from your spares to make the radome ECM antenna by sanding it to the right shape.

At the end you have to buy an RF-4E model and not an RF-4C as the -Cs had the Navy style wing pylons...

Have a nice build...