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Jay Chladek

F-4 Phantom guide for the masses

99 posts in this topic

QF-4's are an odd bunch, especially the USN versions since they were used more for testing purposes instead of targets, unlike their USAF counterparts.

While some USN QF-4's were used as missile targets, it was common to use them as launchers and/or controllers for smaller-scale drones, or as carrier aircraft for new weapons, or to simulate a missile for radar/countermeasures work.

Note that test equipment would be added as needed for a particular program, so there is some variation.

External differences:

QF-4B - 2 Command and control antennae under forward fuselage, one on top behind radome.

QF-4N - 2 Command and control antennae under forward fuselage, may or may not have ejection seat in rear cockpit. Ma have other blade antennae on spine.

QF-4S - 2 Command and control antennae under forward fuselage, normally has both ejection seats.

The USAF ones had more 'lumps-n-bumps' than their USN counterparts, with scoring antennae on the wingtips, and control antennae on the spine and a disc-shaped one at the leading edge of the fin at the peak.

Ken

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Hey Ken, do you know where I might be able to acquire photos of a QF-4N cockpit (specifically the rear pit of one that had an ejection seat)? I've been searching high and low for a build I want to do. But so far, nada. BTW, thanks for the information on these oddball birds.

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Not a big expert but F-4C/D always used the rounded pylon and not the NAVY type,only F-110 Spectre had them.

Luigi

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Not a big expert but F-4C/D always used the rounded pylon and not the NAVY type,only F-110 Spectre had them.

Luigi

F-4C still used the USN style inboard pylon up until as late as 1966 when they made combat deployments to Vietnam,by 1967 they were pretty much replaced with the USAF style pylons.

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Hey Ken, do you know where I might be able to acquire photos of a QF-4N cockpit (specifically the rear pit of one that had an ejection seat)? I've been searching high and low for a build I want to do. But so far, nada. BTW, thanks for the information on these oddball birds.

Don't know of any places, I think it depends on the particular airframe at a particular time.

Educated guess: the rear cockpit would have the basic flight instruments left, plus whatever test/control equipment was needed. Anything radar related would be gone, but probably anything needed to operate the a/c would still be there. I don't think the rear cockpit would be stripped until it was converted to true drone status.

I know that the USAF drones keep a rear seat until the drone is finally checked out, there are circuit breakers in the rear cockpit that may need to be reset in flight and the back seater is the only one that can reset them, so the USN birds probably do the same thing.

I think for all QF-4's, the rear cockpit will eventually be stripped in order to save weight and remove any non-essential items, plus the receivers for the drone control systems were located in the rear cockpit.

Ken

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Made some minor tweeks to the list, including a mention that German F-4Fs utilize british style seat harnesses instead of US ones. Still collecting some data on QF-4 drones and will probably post that next week. The list grows.

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Thanks a lot for putting this together, does anyone know which boxings of the Has 1/48th F-4J are recessed?

Thanks

mason

Edited by doupnik

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Thanks a lot for putting this together, does anyone know which boxings of the Has 1/48th F-4J are recessed?

Pretty much any that have been released in the last few years, the recessed J came out in the late 80's/early 90's.

Ken

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One can sort of tell by the box art. If it isn't a High Grade kit and features that rather large bold sans serif font that Hasegawa was known for in the mid 1980s, it is probably a raised panel line kit. Only one I know that was a raised panel line kit for the J was the VF-84 boxing. However, to add confusion to the mix, Hasegawa recently issued the recessed panel line J model with the same box art and the same decal sheet layout as what was in the original raised panel line issue. It is Hasegawa limited edition kit issue #09338:3200. And I know for a fact it is the recessed panel line F-4J kit as I have one in my stash.

Edited by Jay Chladek

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Platz in Japan is also churning out unbuilt versions of other 1/144 aircraft previously only available as pre-painted trading models. I don't know if Phantoms are planned, but hopefully they will consider them.

Platz has indeed released a 1/144 Phantom kit - the F-4EJ & EJKai as a double kit box with 50th anniversary markings. I have built one of these for the GB (see thread). It's a simple build which can be done without glue, but has recessed lines, a cockpit with separate pilots and tanks. The decals are a bit temperamental, but for thisscale it's pretty good.

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F-4C still used the USN style inboard pylon up until as late as 1966 when they made combat deployments to Vietnam,by 1967 they were pretty much replaced with the USAF style pylons.

Do you have pics? I have shots of Gull Gray and white F-4Cs at MacDill in 1964 with rounded pylons. Never seen a bona fide F-4C production bird with Squid pylons on it.

FWIW, the NF-4Es at Edwards (the former Thunderbirds airplanes) never got either the long gun muzzle or the slatted wing. I photographed them in 1984 with short muzzle fairings (no guns fitted) and hard wings, and there are some still in existence that way.

And just to clarify - USN and British aft cockpits are totally different from all other F-4 cockpits. All others had consoles on both sides (like the front). USN & British (which was based on the F-4J) had a very odd setup, with a wall on the right where the refuelling probe well was located outboard.

J

Edited by Jennings

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I don't have any photo resources for straight pylons on Cs and Ds, but Darren Roberts apparently found some for gray over white F-4Cs that were overpainted with SEA camo (and which promptly shedded their camo paint not long after). The time period for those would be about 1965 or so.

Edited by Jay Chladek

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I don't have any photo resources for straight pylons on Cs and Ds, but Darren Roberts apparently found some for gray over white F-4Cs that were overpainted with SEA camo (and which promptly shedded their camo paint not long after). The time period for those would be about 1965 or so.

I was just checking out that build by Darren.....cool looking paint

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The Aerofax Minigraph on the F-4D has at least one photo of a curved leading edge on a pylon.

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External refuelling probe was fitted to all variants of IAF Phantoms, not just the Kurnass 2000. Biggest giveaways were the Hebrew script Kurnass 2000 on the fuselage side and a large black rectangular shaped antenna under the nose gun fairing.

IAF Phantoms did still have the boom refuelling door on the spine, and the door actually raised even when the boom was fitted to allow the refuelling system to engage.

Hi there

One thing about the External refueling probe also in use for modernized RF-4C (gost scheme) in Spanish Ejercito del Aire service but long time after the the retirement of the F-4C samples

Best day

Armando

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Hi there

In part because this forum and from other side always wanted to do I just got some of the early Phantoms molds so maybe I can help a little bit

Well one or two thing about the:

Early Hasegawa Phantom in 1/72 scale

US Navy F-4J (Showtime 100 decals that's the hook) very simple interior one part clear canopy, no bulges on the wing, no wing tanks so you better get add an IR bulge and replace the burner cans because is more close to a Early B model, already came with unslotted stabilators without middle reinforcement

US Navy F-4J new mold (late) you only can made the late J or and S version with slats (no hard wing) no weapons

Early USAF F-4E (Arkansas Traveler JJ 388TFW, JV 388 TFW, Israeli AF decals )

you got a simple interior, single piece clear canopy, both type of gun muzzle, hard wing no slats, lots of bombs well they look like M117, 3 fuel tanks, only kit with traveling pods/Falcons rails,

New mold F-4E (slat wing, AIM- rails, Photo BDA camaras, TISEO) no weapons, wing tanks and 2 kinda of big tanks early type and F-15 Type

For the Monogram kits

F-4D very nice interior only kits with extended air brakes, two types of ECM pods, SUU-16 gun pod, + 4 Sidewinders AIM-9B (for the decals suposed to be E type)+ 4 Sparrows AIM-7 + 2 wing tanks one seated pilot one standing (you can converted on C model sanding a little bit the IR under nose sensor or an early D model deleting it all Steve Ritchie 555 TFS OY only decal option

F-4J Early J very nice interior only kits with extended air brakes, hard wing, 3 fuel tanks, mid wings pylons with TER and 3 fuse extended MK 82 bombs + 4 Sidewinders AIM-9B (for the decals suposed to be D type)+ 4 Sparrows AIM-7 one seated pilot one standing more than one different decal release I got one with VFMA-333 Shamrocks at USS Nimitz

For ESCI

F-4E/F you got both types of slotted and unslotted stabilators and stat wing, 2 wing tanks and 4 sidewinders AIM-9 (something close to L-P better not to use) and 4 Sparrows AIM-7

Decals from 4 TFW SJ, German Luftwaffe Ghost scheme and a SEA Turkey AF

Decals from 3 TFW PN Battan nose art, Lufftwaffe spliter grays early scheme. RAAF (yes Australian) and 1 Jet sqn Ahat IDF AF (awesome accurate for those days)

RF-4C/E

you got both types of slotted and unslotted stabilators and stat wing, 3 external fuel tanks 2 different sets of afterburners short and large cans (need to be replace) and mid wing pylons (need to be replaced) Decals for USAF AR tail marking and AW51 Luftwaffe

Best day

Armando

PS still looking for the next ESCI batch arrival

Well the ESCI Phantoms just arrived so

ESCI F-4 C/ J

You got both sets of J-79 afterburners short for C and Large for J (early J without the Slats) 4 sidewinders that look very similar to P models and 4 Sparrows, 3 Fuel tanks, 2 different sets of stabilitors slotted and unslotted, two different sets of Mid wing pylons, IR sensor for C version (so that mean that you can also made an early D model)

Decals options depends on the boxing but some samples (SEA D 18 TFS Vampires & C Hawaii ANG), (SEA C Spanish AF Ejercito del Aire & Hi Vis US Marines)

ESCI F-4S RAF

Well Here you find 4 sidewinders that look very similar to P models and 4 Sparrows, 2 Fuel tanks, 2 different sets of stabilitors slotted and unslotted, two different sets of Mid wing pylons, a SUU-16 Gun Pod, the intake ECM antenas (extra E model gun parts)

Decals Options RAF Sqn 74 Tigers + Ghost Scheme US Marines

Monogram F-4C/D

Here You find 4 x AIM-9B, 4 x AIM-7E, a SUU-16 Gun Pod, 2 different ECM pods, Wing Tanks, towel rack antena for Loran navgation, Canopy open/closed Clear Parts, one pilot seated one walking Original decals for Steve Ritchie 555 TFS OY 1972 MiG killer

Monogram F-4J

Early J model no slatted wing or hard wing for armament: 4 x AIM-9B, 4 x AIM-7E, 2 TER mid wing pylon and 6 fuse extended 500 pound Mk82 HE, 3 Ext Fuel tanks Canopy open/closed Clear Parts, one pilot seated one walking decals for VF- USS Constalation other edition with VFMA-333 Shamrocks aboard USS Nimitz

Pending Italeri / Tamiya F-4 E/G/F kit

Best day

Armando

:)

Edited by RAGATIGER

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How about the (E)F-4C, the Wild Weasel 4, of which 36 were produced (modified from standard F-4C's). 12 of these saw combat in the latter days of the Vietnam conflict with the 67th TFS, whilst 12 were stationed at Spangdahlem with the 81st TFS and the last 12 went to the 35th TFW at George AFB.

And then the were the 2 F-4D's converted to Wild Weasels under Project Wild Weasel IV-B, though neither of those made it to operational status.

I am looking (specifically) for the Revell F4 C/D kit. My father flew the actual "C" version depicted on the box (64-0806) in Viet Nam. I would like to get my hands on one or more of the kits. Any suggestions?

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I am looking (specifically) for the Revell F4 C/D kit. My father flew the actual "C" version depicted on the box (64-0806) in Viet Nam. I would like to get my hands on one or more of the kits. Any suggestions?

Hi RCF

Actually that's a beautiful detailed kit (the only but is that detail is engraved or positive is a reduction from the 1/48 kit and only come with a single set of decals) but you only need to do small surgery in tin IR part because it's more a D than C unless you did that so

The other option is the Hasegawa the new Phantom F-4C/D version come with interesting decals options and dumb bombs sets in the older kit you only get post Vietnam Schemes (there is also ESCI kits but lacks detail on the cockpit the other option is Fujimi F-4D but this one is only a third option after the Hase and the Monogram kits)

If you're planing to get more than one of the Monogram kits I can offer you a decal set for one you'll have duplicate because you only got one option with it

Best day

Armando

PS check the whole F-4 Phantom guide for the mases is really interesting and educational :cheers:

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Hi Folks:

This is my first post on ARC. I´m really interest on built a F-4E USAF Vietnam War era. I bought a condor decals "Phantoms in NAM Part I" and my favourite option is "El Toro Bravo" an F-4E Early (Short Gun Muzzle and not Slatted Wing). The kit to do is a Italeri F-4E/F/G in 72nd scale but this model are a F-4E Late with Long Gun Muzzle and Slatted Wing. After 1971 the F-4E receive the Slatted Wing, my questions are:

The 67-0309 (El Toro Bravo, 388th TFW, 469th TFS) was retrofitted to late version on NAM period?

Did Survive the Vietnam War?

Someone have photos of this Aircraft? (I only found one on Osprey F-4 USAF MiG Killers 1972-73)

If 67-0309 are not retrofitted to Late E Version the options are make a F-4E Early with a Revell kit (F-4F modified) or make a Late E (Love War, other option of decals) with Italeri kit.

Many thanks for your responses

Regards from Chile.

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Hi Folks:

This is my first post on ARC. I´m really interest on built a F-4E USAF Vietnam War era. I bought a condor decals "Phantoms in NAM Part I" and my favourite option is "El Toro Bravo" an F-4E Early (Short Gun Muzzle and not Slatted Wing). The kit to do is a Italeri F-4E/F/G in 72nd scale but this model are a F-4E Late with Long Gun Muzzle and Slatted Wing. After 1971 the F-4E receive the Slatted Wing, my questions are:

The 67-0309 (El Toro Bravo, 388th TFW, 469th TFS) was retrofitted to late version on NAM period?

Did Survive the Vietnam War?

Someone have photos of this Aircraft? (I only found one on Osprey F-4 USAF MiG Killers 1972-73)

If 67-0309 are not retrofitted to Late E Version the options are make a F-4E Early with a Revell kit (F-4F modified) or make a Late E (Love War, other option of decals) with Italeri kit.

Many thanks for your responses

Regards from Chile.

Hola Colega Gremlin

Greetings from El Salvador

For a Vietnam War Phantom F-4E you can use both types of gun muzzles if you don't have a early sample I can give you one also if you interested (also can trade you an Arkansas Traveler decal set) you can contact me at armandogiron@yahoo.com

Not sure but no F-4E retrofited to slated wing during Vietnam War (you can find some samples in the IDF AF during Yom Kippur War but that happen in October '73

I'm also waiting for a Italeri Pahntom F-4 E/F/G and everything in 1/72 scale

Best day

Armando :P ;)

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Ok then

here comes the review for the Italeri Kits

you have

RF-4C/E

Hard wing, 2 types of burner cans (you better replace them) sparce cockpit with decals, nice recon nose but square type 2 types of mid wing pylons (crying to be replaced) no weapons or ECM, 2 external under wing fuel tanks + big under fuselage external fuel tank U/C can be possed up and down

2 Sets of Decals one for a USAF C JO tail marking and a Modern German Luftwaffe sample AG-51

F-4E/F/G

Sloted build wing moulded type, 2 types of burner cans (you better replace them) sparce cockpit with decals, two sets of under nose one for a gun armed E model and another for the G Wild Weasel model type 2 types of mid wing pylons (crying to be replaced) weapons (4 AIM-9 Sidewinders looks like P type + 4 AIM-7 Sparrows, ALQ-119 ECM, one AGM-45 Shrike, one AGM-78 Standard) 2 external under wing fuel tanks + big under fuselage external fuel tank U/C can be possed up and down (this kit shares clear parts and fuselage moulds with the early Recon model)

3 Sets of Decals one for a USAF E PN 3 TFW, USAF G PN 3 TFWl marking and a Modern F German Luftwaffe sample JBG-36

Edited by RAGATIGER

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OK then

Here comes the review for the Aftermarkets sets for Phantom F-4 (not decals)

Complete Detail sets for Hasegawa kits Late molds

Verlinden Mostly etched parts

F-4B/C/D/E/J/S

Cockpit detail for External canopy frames

Cockpit placards for B/C/D/J/S notice no E model

Radar Detail B/C/D/E/J/S (Resin + Etched)

Right Wing detail, and Photoetched detail for E/J/S afterburner cans (Resin + Etched)

Gatling gun (some parts but no canon barrel base contrary as included 1/48 scale detail set)

Ejection Seats nice resin samples

Aires for use in Revell Germany F-4F

Complete Cockpit, side panels and ejection seats (resin)

Cockpit intrument panels (frontal) & etched samples

Airwaves (etched brass)

F-4 canopy frames

Aeroclub (White Metal)

Phantom U/C

Ejection Seats for British Phantoms

Fightpath (etched brass)

USAF/US Navy Phantom Laders (also inclues in built steps) 2 each

Airkit Enterprise (resin)

RAF Phantom FOD Guards for Fujimi Kits

Pavla (resin)

Ejection Seat MB Mk7 (2)

Delta Pub (resin)

Israeli/Spanish F-4 IFR Probe

Aires (resin )

F-4F Phantom II Exhaust Nozzle (2)

High Flight (resin)

Afterburner Set (2)

Parangon (resin)

Phantom Flaps

Raphael AIM Phyton III (2) etched and Resin

Well thats all I know

Best day you all

Armando

Edited by RAGATIGER

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Hi All,

I have just starded doing a 1/7.5 scale Iranian Air Force F-4E and I need help regarding decals, can anyone suggest something please ??

Thanks

Mario

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Just for interest, the RAAF F-4Es were Blk 43 aircraft with hard wings and early cannon muzzle,later modified to have the luminous light strips,then the long cannon muzzle. All except 69-7203, which crashed were returned to the USAF at the end of their lease and most ended up as QF/F-4Gs. their serial numbers were 69-0304 - 69-0307 and 69-7201 -69-7217, 69-7219-69-7220 and 69-7234. 69-7234 was badly damaged in an accident that the USAF declared was unrepairable, but 3Aircraft Depot at RAAF base Amberley in Queeensland repaired it and I believe it was the last ex-RAAF F-4 shot down as a QF-4G. This aircraft and 69-7209 are illustrated on the Two Bobs QF-4G decal sheet.

HTH

Phil Hastie

Canberra, Australia

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Would anybody be interested in molding up some Monogram 1/48 F-4 tail hooks in resin to replace the anemic ones on my Hasegawa kits?? I've got a sacrifice one for the master..

J

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