Skyking Posted January 5, 2009 Author Share Posted January 5, 2009 Hiya Holmes, thanks for following along. The rear struts are kind of the same, but they have the added brace strut going forward from the base, forming a vee. It wasn't that much more difficult to make as the fronts. And speaking of struts, the hard part of this build is over. I've been dreading the struts from the day I started, always having that nagging little doubt in the back of my mind if I would actually be able to do them or not. Turns out it wasn't quite as bad as I thought it would be, the hardest part being getting my fat fingers under the wing to measure and cut them. I had assumed a couple of odd looking contortions at a couple of points along the way, and wondered if any of them might put me in traction for a month, but after much patience and spread over a 6 day period, I can finally say they are cut to length and fit well. The only thing I have to do is add the cuffs to the tops and bottoms. I'll use the same technique I used on the front struts, epoxy putty sanded to shape over plastic disc's. After these are done I'll glue the struts to the floats, paint them, and then I can focus on the airplane again. From there it'll be almost straight kit building. The jig is down and the wings are supported just by the struts, and everything stayed nice and straight. Yippeee! This view gives an idea of the arraignment. All that's left to do is cuff the tops and bottoms, paint them and the hard part is over. That bright orange thingie on top of the wing is a screwdriver handle. I used the weight of it to stabilize the wings while I cut and fit the struts. Thanks for following along. Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOLMES Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Mike, the struts showing its arraigments looks pretty good.Will the glue be strong enough to hold them in place. The wings are looking FANTASTIC and so PERFECT { now go rest your 'fat' fingers after that very precise work !!} and not out of line at all.... Mike if you are saying that the rear struts have an added brace , well in that case will the glue that you have used or are gonna use will suffice to keep them strenghtened so thay do not come apart. { sorry for the stupid questions!} Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chukw Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Hi, Mike- looking fantastic! I was a bit leery of the strut cuffs at first- but went and checked the photos. I thought they had to be more concave in profile, but the real deal was more conical, just like yours. I still can't tell form the photos if the bases of the "suction cups" were circular of more like a "fat teardrop" like the typical structure of the day. What, me worry? ;D All hair-splitting aside, it's good to see you making progress on this beauty- happy new year, brother! chuk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skyking Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hi Holmes, Thanks for following along. The glue will be fine, as it was intended simply to hold everything in place until the cuffs, which are solid epoxy, cured and held everything in place. I have a feeling that the struts themselves would fail before the joints will, as they are all embedded in epoxy and are very strong. Hi Chuk, thanks for stopping by. The maddening thing about this whole project is the references are skimpy at best. I have four decent pictures to work from, a line profile drawing, and that's it. There were no drawings or references of the specific floats, but I do have drawings of the floats used on the Curtiss Condor, and they were the same length and beam, and from looking at the pictures, the hull profile and step profile were very close, so I used those. The top cuffs of the struts look like they might be as you described, more of a streamlined airfoil section than a round "cup". If that's the case then all I have to do is sand them from round to airfoil shape, which is no biggie. I've got all the cuffs made, all that remains now is to polish them smooth and prime and paint them, and glue the struts to the floats. I'll post some pictures later on just before painting and right after. Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOLMES Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) Mike, Any progress since your last post, Please. Thank you HOLMES... Edited January 25, 2009 by HOLMES Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skyking Posted January 25, 2009 Author Share Posted January 25, 2009 Hi Holmes, Thnaks for stopping by and checking up. I'm also working on this in between the Oregon and the Boeing. I've got the wings attached and right now I'm doing all the boring stuff of filling seams and sanding filler. Stuff that's about as exciting to look at as watching grass grow. Once I get into the riveting and panel line making I'll post some updates. It won't be long. Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
singeri Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Mike - really neat project....very adventurous build....keep the updates coming! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOLMES Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 (edited) Mike, I know you are busy with the Oregon because I am following that thread too.... Boeing? did not know you were doing that !! Well thank you for the latest update and look forward to the pictures once you have done what you said.. Keep at it... Nice and light fingered now Please.... :lol: HOLMES. :) Edited January 26, 2009 by HOLMES Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOLMES Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Mike, any pics yet that you want to share with us...getting withdrawl symptoms.. HOLMES :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOLMES Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Mike any pics yet? HOLMES..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skyking Posted March 5, 2009 Author Share Posted March 5, 2009 Mikeany pics yet? Here's your fix Holmes..lol. Sorry it's been a while. I got side tracked on a few other projects, but now that they are finished I can focus on this turkey again. For those that may have been wondering what happened to this, (and for those that could care less too..lol) I've been able to get back to it after a couple of smaller projects and the Brooklyn, and I can focus on it again. The floats are finished and painted, and I've got the beaching dollies made, they just need to be painted yet. They are made from various strips of .040 plastic sheet, and some road wheels I got out of the spares box from an old creepy crawlie kit. Rather than try to scribe the panel lines, I masked them all and sprayed primer in heavy applications along the edge of the tape, creating a ridge of primer. Once the tape was removed, it left a nice simulation of an overlap panel joint. I'm torn about rivets. Do I use my rivet maker (pounce wheel) or do I use rivet decals, or just leave them off altogether? The pounce wheel I'm afraid will slip and damage the finish, and I'm afraid the decals will look fake. I'm leaning more towards leaving them off, but they are pretty prominent on the real airplane. I'll practice on some scrap before I commit to the model. Here's the fuselage in all its finished white primed glory. Man what a seam hog this thing was. strips of .030 and .040 were used to fill the gap between the wing and fuselage, then CA was used to do the main filling, followed by red spot putty for a final finish. The Stabilizers weren't much better, but after much trial and error and sanding and fitting I got them pretty tight, then glued and CA'ed them in place. On the fuselage I sanded off all the raised panel lines and rivet lines, and did the same for the panel lines as I did on the floats. I prefer this method over scribing, as it's a simple fix if I screw up. Simply sand them down, remask and respray. Much easier than repairing a misguided scribe line. Again the rivet dilemma, but I'll do the same on this that I do on the floats. The canopy that's on there now is an old Squadron vacform that I used as a mask. I'll use the kit glass after I dip it in Future. Little bit closer to give a better view of the overlap panel lines. It's difficult to see them because of the white primer, but I think they are more subtle and to scale than scribed lines. I hope to have this finished in four weeks for a show in Buffalo, but that will all depend on the modeling gods. Till next time, Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chukw Posted March 5, 2009 Share Posted March 5, 2009 Very nice, Mike! Those overlapping panels will make you the beloved guy in all of modeldom- the perfect solution to the hull texture problem. The logical rivet solution would be the Archer's rised rivet decals, but that could get pricey on a boat like this! I've just started my first gear-wheel riveting job- not so tough and quite rewarding. More on that in a couple of weeks! Cheers- chuk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skyking Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 Hi there Chuk, The logical rivet solution would be the Archer's rised rivet decals Holy Bumps Batman, I never knew these existed. Thanks for turning me onto them Chuk. I just ordered two sheets and I think these will be just what the Doc ordered. I messed around with a riveter tool and various other methods and just wasn't happy with the results. This should be just the ticket. Thanks again Chuk. Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skyking Posted March 17, 2009 Author Share Posted March 17, 2009 It's been a few days since I've posted anything of any substance, and all I can say is Wow to all the other great builds going on. Between Pete's Viper, Guys Tomcat, Pierre's Felixtowe, a host of others and now Chuk's Me-210, I'm a bit embarrassed to post pictures of this slug, but here goes. I was hoping to get it finished before a show in Buffalo next month, but there's no way that'll happen, not with what lays before me, as you will see in a moment. I've got a splash of color on it. The tops of the wings have been painted with Model Master Chrome Yellow and allowed to set for 6 days before I handled it. I shot a base coat of Mr. Surfacer 1000 first, and had no problems with the yellow being translucent. I was a bit concerned that my primer wold go on too thick and conceal all the panel lines, but I was worried for nothing, they remained sharp and clear. I wish the Devastator didn't have such prominent rivets, but it does, so they need to be there. Many thanks to Chuk for turning me onto these Raised Rivet Details from Archer Fine Transfers. I ordered the smaller of the sets, .008 diameter, and was afraid they may appear to be too large, but once on the model they don't look too bad. I tried using a pounce wheel and just was not happy with the results. As soon as I got these I knew it was problem solved. The only thing is, they are very tedious to apply. What you see here (both sides) took me the better part of 6 hours, and I've got the entire fuselage and wings to do. It's a good thing I like applying decals..lol. I have both beaching cradles painted and weathered with pastel chalks. Being this airplane served at a test center, and not an operational unit, it was pretty well maintained even by Navy standards, so it won't be terribly weathered. The chalk gave me a nice effect without having to worry it was overdone. Well that's all for now. I'll put up a couple of more shots when I get the riveting party finished. Comments welcome as always. Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geedubelyer Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 Man, those yellow wings look good Did I read correctly Mike, you've still got to "rivet" the wings yet? Will that mean another coat of yellow? The rivet transfers look very good from your photos. Are they waterslide and are they easy to apply? (I have a Trumpeter A-10 with alot of raised rivets on the tail that I'll probably need to replace at some point in the distant future.) It's good to see your progress so far. The beaching cradles look great. It would appear that you're getting over your fear of weathering. The pastels that you've used on the wood are perfect! Keep at it when you can. This is getting better and better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HOLMES Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 (edited) Hello Mike, Ah that's better....No more cold turkey Okay the coloring is looking very bright and BRILLIANT.... I recall asking if it would be silver and yellow....Are you still gonna combine it with the Silver lacquer... I am sure that it will look STUNNING... And those Rivet Declas are AWESOME and they do look small and fiddly... Ok Question....you know how sometime ordinary decals fade and yellow and then curl up{ sometimes } and maybe fall off and you have to replace them; WELL will you have to do that to the Archers Rivet Decal or are they there for EVER.... I can't rmember if you said if you were gonna lace the Torpedo as in the old B/W photo.... Glad you posted more pics.... Looking forward to seeing this again .... { hos is the USS Oregon coming along ?} Edited March 17, 2009 by HOLMES Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JMan Posted March 17, 2009 Share Posted March 17, 2009 WOW, this is one nice looking Devastator! Cant wait to see how those rivets come out with a nice coat of pain on them! Fantastic job! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skyking Posted March 18, 2009 Author Share Posted March 18, 2009 Hiya Guy, thanks for stopping by. Did I read correctly Mike, you've still got to "rivet" the wings yet? Will that mean another coat of yellow?The rivet transfers look very good from your photos. Are they waterslide and are they easy to apply? (I have a Trumpeter A-10 with alot of raised rivets on the tail that I'll probably need to replace at some point in the distant future.) yes you read correctly..lol. I will do the wings after I get the fuselage painted. My reasoning is I have to mask the wings to apply the aluminum lacquer, and I'm afraid I will pull up the rivet decals with the tape. I will mask the wings, spray the aluminum, remove the masking, then I will paint the rivets while still on the sheet and apply them, then seal everything in Future. At least that's the plan for now. They are VERY easy to apply, but what takes time is scootching them around with a brush to make sure they are all straight in line and not looking like a snake. I did all the ones along the panel lines first. Then I'll use dividers to lay out the lines in between, and the lines running lengthwise. I think I'm going to need another sheet of them though. Hiya Holmes, Okay the coloring is looking very bright and BRILLIANT.... I recall asking if it would be silver and yellow....Are you still gonna combine it with the Silver lacquer... I am sure that it will look STUNNING... And those Rivet Declas are AWESOME and they do look small and fiddly... Ok Question....you know how sometime ordinary decals fade and yellow and then curl up{ sometimes } and maybe fall off and you have to replace them; WELL will you have to do that to the Archers Rivet Decal or are they there for EVER.... I can't rmember if you said if you were gonna lace the Torpedo as in the old B/W photo.... Yes the fuselage will be aluminum lacquered. Because this was a test aircraft and not assigned to any unit, the coloring is somewhat bland for the era. What will make this unique is the floats. These decals won't have a problem with yellowing as they will be under the paint Holmes. The exception would be the wings, but seeing as the wings are yellow hopefully it will blend..lol. These shouldn't;t be a problem though as there isn't much of an overcoat on them. Time will tell. Yes I will be including the Torpedo too. Not sure if it'll be a test Torpedo yet or a production. And yes the Oregon is finished..lol. I'll have to shoot some new pictures. Hi JMan, Thanks for the comments. I'll put some shots up when I get a chance. I'm still laying the fuselage rivets and I suspect it'll take a few days. Cheers Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pete "Pig" Fleischmann Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 HI Mike! Wowowo! This is really working out to be another showpiece. The cradle is brilliant, BTW. The pastel weathering looks perfect-The wheels look like they weigh 500Lbs. Superb. I'm glad to see you using the Archer rivets. Like Guy, I've been looking at those for the eventual A-10 and HH-60G in the big scale. I'll be picking your brain on those, and watching with interest. As usual Mike, You always teach us something with every post! Regards.. Pig Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chukw Posted March 18, 2009 Share Posted March 18, 2009 I've said so elsewhere- but you're really doing this up right, Mike! I predict that by the time you apply the 9.874th rivet decal you'll be cursing my name- but the model will look great! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skyking Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) Hi Pete, Chuk, I predict that by the time you apply the 9.874th rivet decal you'll be cursing my name- Ummm Chuk, I think it'll be happening a lot sooner, more like the 300th..lol. Seriously it's not all that bad, just a few things to watch out for, which I'll try to cover here in case anyone else wants to give these decals a go. Here's a shot of a portion of the sheet. I got the sheet of .008", with three different pitch spacings, and another sheet of double row rivets. The sheet size is about 3" x 4.5", and are covered with a single layer of carrier, so you will have to cut out your strips to separate them. The carrier film is very thin, and will stand up to handling with short lengths. If you try to apply strips in excess of an inch or so, it would be wise to apply another coat of decal carrier to give them a little more strength, although you may trade off some flexibility. I've had no issues with curves, and they will keep a fairly straight line without too much fuss. Do not use Setting Solution until you have them placed where you want them, otherwise if you try to move them after they will scrunch up and it's a bear to smooth them back down again. I am very pleased with them so far. They look uniform in size, apply fairly easy and really add a nice touch. I find this easier than using a pounce wheel or riveter, and they are a true raised rivet, not a hole simulating one. After another 8 hours of decaling this is as far as I have gotten. To say it's tedious is an understatement, but it's not because of a problem with the decals, it's just me taking my time to make sure my runs are reasonably straight and parallel with each other. I'm using a fuselage half from another kit, along with a pair of dividers to lay out my locations, and so far it's working pretty well. The up and down rivet lines will be the closer spaced rivets. I'll use the middle spaced for the longitudinal rivets, and the widest spaced for the fairings around the tail feathers. The Doubles will be used where appropriate, and this is where Ginter's book is an invaluable aid in placing them. I am going to have to order a second sheet though I think. I have plenty of the close spaced rivets for the laterals, but nowhere near enough for the longitudinal. I'm going to have more invested in this silly thing in rivet decals than anything else.. Cheers Mike Edited March 23, 2009 by Skyking Quote Link to post Share on other sites
FrankC Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Man that is incredible work! WOW even! I can't wait to see what those rivets look like - I hope you can see em! Frank Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Old Man Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Great to see you making progress still on this one, Mr. King! Excellent progress.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skyking Posted April 5, 2009 Author Share Posted April 5, 2009 (edited) Hi Frank Thanks for the comments. They should be pretty visible under the paint. I sure hope so. If they dissapear after all this work I'll not be a happy camper. Hi there OM. Long time no see. Thanks for the comments. Well I got MOST of the fuselage done. I still have to do the fin, and the underside of the wings. I can then mask off the yellow, shoot the aluminum, then I'll spray yellow on even more rivets and apply to the top of the wing. In the background you can see that I've begun riveting the floats also. Yeegads this is pain the pitot tube. I've gone cross eyed trying to keep things straight and even, and in spite of the efforsts, there's a few spots where they are a bit crooked. It's near impossible to keep the runs perfectly straight and even. Will I ever do it again? I don't think so, at least not in 1/48th scale. The smallest rivet size is .008", and they look a wee bit large for a 48th scale airplane. In 32nd I think they'ed be spot on, but in 48th scale I think the best way to go would be the riveter tool like Chuk is using on his 410. The pros and cons of these rivet decals are: Pros Easy to apply. Respond well to setting solution 3 Dimensional, not a depression in the plastic Cons Difficult to keep in a straight line Expensive to use on an entire model. Small areas they are perfect. Thanks for stopping by. Next installment will have some aluminum paint, and that'll be the real acid test, if the carrier film will show underneath the paint or not. Cheers Mike Edited April 5, 2009 by Skyking Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geedubelyer Posted April 5, 2009 Share Posted April 5, 2009 Crumbs....... That's alot of rivetting Mike. Mind you, they do look very good! So if I've understood you correctly,........you plan to paint the decals yellow on the backing paper and then apply them? Once they are in place, any plans to use a wash of some kind to highlight them or possibly a light dry-brush with a lighter shade of yellow? I'm certainly looking forward to seeing the aluminium applied. It should make a nice contrast to the wings and bring this bird to life even more. Keep at it, only a few hundred more rivets to go............ :D :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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