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Sprue Shots of the CA TA-4J are now online


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http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/ca/pre_ca_4147.shtml

Potential drawbacks: flaps in the up position unless you want to cut them free and completely closed speed brakes. But looking at the sprues again I don't think it would be that difficult to reposition the flaps, or remove them altogether and replace them with flaps from the Has. or Pro Modeler kit. (same kit, different boxes)

Edited by David Walker
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Very interesting...Did I see that right...resin pits, seats, wheels and gear bays???

That's something about this kit compared to a hypothetical future release from a major manufacturer. Even if the kit is not a Tamiya kit, you get the resin pit, seats, wheels, bays etc. Even if a large company does come out with one, I may still buy this one because the price of the resin goodies after the kit itself may not be comparable to this kit, whatever the price may be.

Matt

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http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/ca/pre_ca_4147.shtml

Potential drawbacks: flaps in the up position unless you want to cut them free and completely closed speed brakes. But looking at the sprues again I don't think it would be that difficult to reposition the flaps, or remove them altogether and replace them with flaps from the Has. or Pro Modeler kit. (same kit, different boxes)

On the plus side, 5 pylons so TA-4F/G/K's are do-able (Although the fin tip will need replacing for a K). Also needs the bent probe, and different inst panels although these wouldn't 'd be hard to scratch build

As for Speedbrakes, they should be closed 90% of the time anyway, IMHO posing them open looks silly and totally unrealistic for a parked aircraft, unless your doing a last chance check or its flying. I'll concede the speedbrakes can sometimes open slightly with Hydraulics off on the ground

Dropped flaps are that hard on the A-4's, even if you have scratch build the whole flaps.

Perhaps if this sells well (which it will) we might see a family of T birds from CA, with USN trainers, then Aussie and Kiwi TA-4's

Edited by a4s4eva
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Then again, it could mean that they are pushing their injection molding abilities to a new level (as they always are) and that the ultimate goal is more styrene and less resin, which would make sense from a cost/benefit and sales levels perspective. If they could get close to the old Monogram kits from the '80's (in an all IM kit), that would really help control costs.

Pete

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1240_sleeping.gif

Unimpressed. While the quality of the plastic looks good, i wish the execution looked better. It looks too simplified. The LAU-7 sidewinder missile rail needs to be by itself and and then connect to the ADU-229 adaptor (like they have in the Hase kit) The representation they have in this kit looks almost like a direct copy of the one in the old Monogram AV-8A kit (which also should have been an ADU-229 / LAU-7 combo) They only include one, which means no foreign or VC-10 birds that carried two Winders or a CATM and AMCI pod on the outboard stations can be done OOB. Brakes should be open just to give the modeler the option, Seems we'll have another Flap about the flaps and no bent refueling probe, which many had.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft/attack/a4/ta4_01.jpg

http://instapinch.com/blog/wp-content/photos/orig_TA4.jpg

http://www.gibstuff.net/a4_alley/images6/TA-4_Hot_Refuel.jpg

http://www.timgerlach.com/facomp/TA-4J_UX.jpg

And this is just less than a 5 minute study of the sprues online. I refuse to butcher one of my Hase Skyhawks to upgrade this kit. And can someone please tell me the fasination with resin wheel wells? Especially on something that sitting on a shelf or display stand, most people will never see. All in all, for what you get and the likely price, it will keep me away from it.

Edited by Fuji
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Unimpressed.

But....but....but.....it's Classic Airframes! :thumbsup:

It amazes me that people always look at a CA kit and say that you get so much resin. Of course you do - they have to do the fine stuff in resin because they are unable to reproduce fine detail in injection molded plastic. And like Fuji said, what is there is often over simplified. I'm sure the run of TA-4's will sell quickly and I'm going to be very interested to see how these kits actually fit. Another area I'm interested to hear about once modelers have these kits on the bench is how many of the intection molded parts will be usable - I'm thinking of things like the gear doors that are often way too thick. At least they've done the wheels in resin - unlike the F-5's - so you've got a fighting chance they won't be the width of dragster slicks.

CA is a fine example of a limited run kit maker, they're not the best, they're not the worst. They're average no matter how many of the chosen ones would try to tell you otherwise.

Cheers,

Sean

Edited by Sean Bratton
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Concerning the styrene instrument panels, Skyhawk panels (with the exception of A-4M and N/H pits with ARBS bomb sights, or post Kuhu upgrade Kiwi hawks) are rather basic anyway with just the core flight instruments and maybe an engine/fuel guage here and there). These things aren't loaded to the gills with MFDs like say a typical Viper pit or round dial heavy like an F-4 Phantom pit. So styrene should be fine for them. I am kind of glad there aren't any pre-colored photoetched bits in the pit (maybe they are coming, who knows), so I can utilize some of my own creativity in the pit paintwork with paint, a black pen and some Prismacolor pencils.

What I see seems to be somewhere around Hasegawa (maybe something akin to a Hobbycraft kit without the obvious flaws and some resin wrinkles added). Overall I like what I see and will buy one of these anyway. I am not expecting a world beater, rather a kit I can build into a nice representation of a full size TA-4J with my meager skills (and the price looks reasonable, given the price of styrene these days). If the wait for a supposed major manufacturer's two seater Skyhawk doesn't materialize in say another 18 months after this one hits the market, then I might obtain a couple more for other uses. My primary TA-4J build won't be a Top Gun bird though, but rather a simple jet trainer from some place like NAS Jacksonville as the scooter looks great in white and red/orange IMHO.

So, when is CA going to get off their high horse and issue a two seater Draken? :thumbsup:

Edited by Jay Chladek
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mrhorse7uv.jpg

No sir, I don't like it

Another point is - Where is the canopy? Is it injection or vacuform? I can see the potential of frankenscooters here and I'm sure many will raid Hase kits to add the wings, open the brakes and such but is it worth it? If I was going to go through that, best give me a forward fuselage that I can graft onto the Hasegawa kit, it would reduce the cost. Take into consideration that the F-5 kits averaged about 40 bucks, add a hasegawa scooter at around 30 bucks (if you can't find a steal on ebay) and then the aires airbrake set (if you want to go that route) at 13 bucks. Add your aftermarket decals at around another 13 bucks and you have ta-4j that will cost you over a hundred (including all shipping) and a lot of work and hours to make it look decent (on par with most short run kits). IF Hasegawa does one, I would expect to be able to do two jets (including aftermarket decals) for this price with a lot less headaches. This is still my hobby, and I am expecting, like many i think, more bang for my (shrinking) buck. If its not up to par, I won't touch it. I'd prefer to graft the front of a Monogram OA-4M to a Hase A-4E. The result will probably look better, be about the same amount of hassle, cost a lot less and I can take more pride in the build. Granted, its not something I would do two or three times which is why I have waited for a Hasegawa TA-4, but no way am I going to spend 300 bucks to do my favorite three Scooters!

My primary TA-4J build won't be a Top Gun bird though, but rather a simple jet trainer from some place like NAS Jacksonville as the scooter looks great in white and red/orange

No TA-4s were based at NAS Jax, the main training wings were at Pensacola, Meridian and Kingsville. :thumbsup: If you mean a VA-45 bird they were based at NAS Cecil Field and were used as instrument training jets and they didn't operate in the white and dayglow orange scheme.

http://www.skyhawk.org/5e/g153459/html/153461.htm

http://www.skyhawk.org/5e/g153459/html/153471a.htm

http://www.skyhawk.org/5e/g153459/html/153497.htm

Edited by Fuji
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And can someone please tell me the fasination with resin wheel wells? Especially on something that sitting on a shelf or display stand, most people will never see.

Those are going to be a ******* to install - nothing against CA, just the way the Scooter's wells are designed (ie. the roof of the well is the skin of the wing) - lots of sanding, paper thin plastic, paper thin resin. Like adding AiRes bays into Hasegawa's kit... only more so.

And the instrument panels are naff.

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As for Speedbrakes, they should be closed 90% of the time anyway, IMHO posing them open looks silly and totally unrealistic for a parked aircraft, unless your doing a last chance check or its flying. I'll concede the speedbrakes can sometimes open slightly with Hydraulics off on the ground

Your last sentence there was actually my point. I'd like the option of having them slightly open.

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Another point is - Where is the canopy? Is it injection or vacuform?

According to the review they are injection molded: "one sprue of clear parts ( I do not have the clear parts yet because they are just being produced)"

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Aah well, I guess ya cant please everyone, and thats cool too.

I for one cant wait for mine to arrive so I can do a Kiwi KAHU upgrade bird. Looks like they got the upper wing profile right where the slat retracts into the wing giving it a nice smooth blend.

Great stuff CA you have filled another gap in my collection.

Cheers

Anthony

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For those who want flaps etc, the reivewer on the other site offers a solution;

What would I have liked to see? Maybe flaps and speed brakes. There is a great solution for that though. Aires has come up with a magnificent upgrade resin set for the Hasegawa Skyhawk. All the Aires parts should fit the Classic kit with minor fiddling. I intent to prove that very soon!

Now this kit is not my scale really but good to see its being done as it does fill a gap.

Julien

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Fuji

I'm goign to graft it onto my Hasegawa kit just because this looks to be a copy of the Hasegawa kit and One would surmise that the fit would be better then going with the Monogram OA-4M. I have the MOnogram kit and was goign to do this untill this kit was announced, now I'll use it. I see I'll only have to make one cut maybe two and take off the hump behind the canopy and I'm set. So maybe it will be an IAF TA-4J for next years nats????? Naaa I've allready startted my VFA-192 Golden Dragon. Too many kits tooooooo little time.

Jim

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Not surprised some of you are already complaining about the kit. You would probably complain if someone gave you free food and it wasn't cooked the way you liked it.

Makes one wonder why people like Jules even try. God bless him though for bringing a decent TA-4J to the market.

Dave

I concur Dave.People scream for one,now they say "But...but...you didn't make it the way I think you should have!"

I'm going to market my own TA-4 alternative,in the box you will find:

Large chunk of bass wood

Thermaform

Vacuform machine

5 pound block of styrene

10 large sheets of styrene

One X-acto handle

100 X-acto #11 blades

1 box of Band-Aids

I'll out-source the decals to a company on a small island in the south pacific that works for bananas to keep costs down.

There,since some people won't buy CA's TA-4 joy in a box,you can make your own!

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Well my take is this

Buy it if you want it "I am" and if you don't thats fine too. And heck even if you want to "Discuss" whats lacking thats fine too. What I hope people wont do is to start bashing one another for liking it or not liking. Thats why the forum is here, to talk about models, their fine points, thier flaws, and how we fix em. Just becasue some come out and rivit count or go the other way and are just thankfull one came out is no reason to get all worked up.

I for one am glad it came out and also that I understand that "I" will make changes. So ya I;m on the fence.

Jim

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