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Adding Retarder to Tamiya Paints


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Forumites,

I think that Tamiya paints brush like ______________ (fill in the blank). :( I have seen it posted elsewhere that you can add retarder to it, and it behaves much better. Anyone here done that? I just buggered up a 1/72nd scale pilot I was working on trying to paint Tamiya flesh. This paint does not like itself at all. When I went back over what I had just brushed on to smooth it out, most of it lifted up. :banana: I have had this happen when trying to brush their "clear" colors.

Any other ideas besides the retarder.

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Add a small amount of Createx, Liquitex, or Golden retarder to a small amount of 90% isopropyl alcohol (a thimble-full). Dip your brush in that before loading it with paint, and periodically thereafter as needed. Always paint Tamiya acrylics with a "wet edge"—and never paint over paint that has been applied but not fully cured. Wait until it cures and apply another coat.

You can also just use your small amount of alcohol to dilute a small amount of paint, and paint with that mixture. Either technique works.

I brush paint with Tamiya acrylics by choice—I prefer them to all others for brush painting. (However, I have yet to try some of the newer brands, as I have plenty of Tamiya on hand and it is easy to obtain.)

For brushing, it is a "demanding" medium. But it gives excellent results once mastered.

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First, give the figure/tiny part a coat of primer. This can as well be good old enamel paint. Brush on a coat of white or gray, just what you prefer. That way the next coat will adhere much better than on the plain plastic.

Second: Two days ago, I discovered an interesting article on armorama by Adam Wilder. Adam is one of the best armor modelers on this planet. In this article, he states that Tamiya paints aren't acrylics and they go on much better using lacquer thinner. He airbrushes them, but anyway, it should work when brushing them as well.

May they be acrylics or not, bottom line is this guy knows what he's talking about. He also mentions that they airbrush much smoother that way.

Try it, and let us know how it worked!

Oliver

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First, give the figure/tiny part a coat of primer. This can as well be good old enamel paint. <snip>Second: Two days ago, I discovered an interesting article on armorama by Adam Wilder. <snip> he states that Tamiya paints aren't acrylics and they go on much better using lacquer thinner.

  1. If you are going to use enamel paint as a primer, and lacquer thinner as a reducing solvent, why bother using acrylics at all? Just use enamels and lacquers!
  2. Tamiya acryilics are, indeed, acrylics.

What Adam Wilder may be doing is essentially using the Tamiya acrylic as a pigment. This is the case if his particular brand of lacquer thinner contains high molecular weight organic solvents like acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, toluene, etc. Many lacquer thinners do. However, "lacquer thinner" has no definite composition—it is what ever the manufacturer chooses to put in it. Many lacquer thinners are mostly alcohols—the best solvents for Tamiya acrylics, and the proper thinner for the original or traditional binder in lacquers. This latter may be why some people think that Tamiya and Gunze acrylics are lacquers, because they can use the same solvent system.

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  1. If you are going to use enamel paint as a primer, and lacquer thinner as a reducing solvent, why bother using acrylics at all? Just use enamels and lacquers!

Couple points here, since I just switched over to using Lacquer thinner to spray my Tamiya and Gunze paint...

First off, Acrylic paint is far better suited to applying thinner-based washes to..you don't have to worry as much about paint lifting on you when you apply an oil-based wash to them. Acrylic paint also seems to dry faster (to me at least) then Enamels and just as fast as Lacquer based paints.

Gunze Lacquer based paint is a PIA to get in the USA.

Spraying Tamiya with their airbrushing thinner (non-lacquer based) can cause problems with the paint setting up in midflight and leaving you with a really grainy flat finish.

I can still clean up my equipment using water and/or Windex and strip my models using Windex if I need to, I can't do that with Lacquer or Enamel paint.

Keeping with that, be careful which Lacquer thinner you use with Tamiya and Gunze paint, I found out the local hardware store stuff is great for cleaning your airbrush with, but will totally break down Tamiya or Gunze making it useless for airbrushing. I've had good luck with Mr Hobby/Gunze lacquer thinner with Retarder in it but the retarter slows the paint drying down too much for my likes, it normally takes over night for Gunze Acrylic to fully set up and it makes it hard to weather, since the color shifts ever so slightly while it dries.

I have a bottle of Tamiya Lacquer thinner on the way from Rainbow10 and a big bottle of GAIANOTES Lacquer thinner also, which MIG exclaimed is the best Lacquer thinner out there for Tamiya Paints. When I get them I'll report back on my thoughts.

The other nice thing about using Lacquer Thinner for thinning Tamiya paint is you can get some super thin coats of paint...check this article out for more info:

http://hyperscale.com/features/2002/gekkogc_3.htm

About halfway down you can see the results...

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Please don't take this the wrong way as it is not intended to be belligerent in any way... but why continue to use Tamiya or Gunze acrylics for brush painting? I've read threads time and time again about these issues. It's one thing to use this paint as 'touch up' paint for extremely small areas, but it's another to try and paint a figure or larger parts. Do yourself a favor... buy some Citadel Acrylic paints from the Games Workshop. This stuff is incredible. Not only is it developed for brushpainting so it goes on smooth and perfect, but dries incredibly quickly and to a diamond hard finish. It can be use don any surface including metal. You don't need that many as you will have to mix your own shades to suit the purpose. So get the basic. colors. .. white, black, green, gray, red, yellow, blue... from here you can mix pretty much any color. They come in very small containers but last a VERY long time... I have some that are over 5 years old... if they thicken just add plain 'ol water. And use water as a thinner.

Although I have airbrushed it successfully using Tamiya Thinner ... You can use water but the stuff dries inside your airbrush too quickly if water is used exclusively. I also use this stuff for panel lines using only water, a wee bit of dishwashing liquid and a tiny bit of Citadel paint... let try about 10 minutes then rub off with a paper towel... viola... perfect panel lines!

This cockpit and figures were entirely painted by using Citadel paints (no airbrushing) ... using the wash described above, dry brushing and thinning:

IMG_1649Medium.jpg

Here's a sample of my panel lines using this paint...

04.jpg

This F-15E exhaust was entirely hand painted... only the final gloss on the 'golden' ring was airbrushed on...

10.jpg

This entire model was hand painted with the exception of the base yellow/brown on the tank and the black/gray post shading on it... and the gray base on the kublewagen...

Tiger-25Small.jpg

Tiger-22Small.jpg

Tiger-11Small.jpg

Tiger-26Small.jpg

Tiger16Small.jpg

It's a good investment in MHO.

Best,

-Greg

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Thanks guys for all the tips and advice. Greg, I do use Citadel acryllics. However:

- I am 3+ hours away from the closest LHS :worship:

- I was in need of some "flesh" paint which I happened to have on hand for some reason in my small collection of Tamiya paints, and not in my small collection of Citadel paints :salute:

- the figure I was painting was a 1/72nd pilot, and I only needed to cover his face :lol:

So, I wanted to use what was at hand instead of placing a mail order for a bottle of paint. I had heard about the retarder before, and just wanted to check. Once again thanks for all the help and encouragement.

Warren

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Greg,

Certainly no problem, if nothing else, I was glad to see someone else preach the attributes of Citadel paints. I do like them. Unfortunately for me, since there is such a long, dry spell for me between modeling sessions, my acryllic paint tends to go bad. Just had to reorder a bunch of different browns from Citadel that I try to use for simulating wood on WWI kits.

Warren

Edited by dixieflyer
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Add a small amount of Createx, Liquitex, or Golden retarder to a small amount of 90% isopropyl alcohol (a thimble-full). Dip your brush in that before loading it with paint, and periodically thereafter as needed. Always paint Tamiya acrylics with a "wet edge"—and never paint over paint that has been applied but not fully cured. Wait until it cures and apply another coat.

You can also just use your small amount of alcohol to dilute a small amount of paint, and paint with that mixture. Either technique works.

I brush paint with Tamiya acrylics by choice—I prefer them to all others for brush painting. (However, I have yet to try some of the newer brands, as I have plenty of Tamiya on hand and it is easy to obtain.)

For brushing, it is a "demanding" medium. But it gives excellent results once mastered.

I must say, loading the paint brush with the retarder/alcohol mix is a fantastic tip. I tried it all weekend with much better results than I had been getting before. :salute:

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Just a follow up, the mailman just dropped off my Rainbow10 package today and I tried out the Gainotes lacquer thinner with some Tamiya Paint and it works Awesome! I still need to try out the Tamiya Lacquer thinner I also got in the same package...

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Quick question to the knowledgeable ones here - any hobby shops that sell this so I could justify the shipping if I buy online?

OR, even better, would my local Michaels craft store stock this? I wanna' try the thimble full of iso + retarder on the brush trick!

TIA!

tracy

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Quick question to the knowledgeable ones here - any hobby shops that sell this so I could justify the shipping if I buy online? OR, even better, would my local Michaels craft store stock this? I wanna' try the thimble full of iso + retarder on the brush trick! TIA! tracy

Michaels carries several brands. All work.

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