DutyCat Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 (edited) I came across a Microscale 72-403 decal sheet which has some early TPS A-7s on it, including a nice DamBusters bird. Unfortunately, the instructions were not included! So, I found the aircraft , BuNo 158823, modex 401, depicted in an OLD (June 1983) issue of Scale Aircraft Modeling magazine that I had laying around for the past 25 years. So far, so good. Decals and a good reference, except............the decals and the reference don't quite match. Color call outs in the article are 36375 light ghost gray for the top and 36495 light gray for the bottom. Okay, that makes sense, as I know that the very early TPS schemes used the very light gray on the undersides. Article calls for all insignia and markings, except for underside stars and bars, to be 36495 light gray. That would also make sense as it would contrast with the light ghost gray topside. Here is where it gets tricky. Decals for the markings are all done in what appears to be 36375 light ghost gray, NOT 36495 light gray. So, if I apply them, then they will be practically invisible! Now, I also now that the A-7 community used medium blue-gray 35237 quite a bit, so maybe that is where one mistake lies. So, the way I figure it, I can do it a one of several different ways. Since I can't use 36375 for the top, I must either: Go with 36320 over 36495. Good contrast between the upper and lower paint with markings being slightly lighter than the topside color. Go with 36320 over 36375. 36375 markings. Standard stuff. Go with 35237 over 36375 or 36320. Go with 35237 over 36495. 36375 markings. Striking paint contrast and good contrast with markings. The question is, what is accurate using 36375 markings? I know there was a lot of experimentation early on. I have so far not been able to locate any pics of very early TPS A-7.s. Edited June 3, 2008 by DutyCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lgl007 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 My next project is a 1/48 A-7E. I have Microscale decals to do an early TPS scheme VA-27 (Oct 1982). The decals are in two tones... as the jet scheme in darker gray (FS36320) on top and lighter on bottom (FS36495). So I don't have the problem you do... but here's the catch. One of our ARC members (Gerry) worked on these jets in the early 80's... and he never saw a two tone scheme on any of them! They were always one solid gray color. So now I'm also stuck. I have a true eye witness account vs. the decal manufacturer's account. Even the AirDoc low vis decal set available also calls for a two tone scheme... I'm inclined myself to go with the two tone scheme only to accommodate the different decal gray's or one of them will fade in as in your case... I believe Gerry is correct and I'd love to do a single gray scheme but the decals won't allow for that in my case :-( So in your case the answer is clear... listen to eye witness accounts and only paint the sucker one solid gray... :-) Case solved! Here is a pic of my decals and the instructions... -Greg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 See, your sheet is calling for 36495 on the bottom also! Since you mentioned pics, I went back and looked at the article again. I didn't even look at the pics before. I had gone straight for the profiles. Anyway, there, plane as day is a photo of a Dambusters plane in the two tone scheme. It is a small black and white pic, but you can see it well enough. Markings and underside are VERY light (like 36495 light), and topside gray seems too dark to be 36375. More like 36320, or even 35237. But, hard to tell in a photo sometimes. I have reached the conclusion that both the article and decals are right, but the decals probably represent the aircraft at a later date, maybe when the two tone gray scheme(and 36495) was dropped. It explains why the markings on the decal sheet are all done in light ghost gray. So now, is the overall color 36320, with 36375 markings? Or is it 35237 with 36375 markings? Or two tone 36320 over 36375 with 36375 markings? If I could get ahold of the instructions for 72-403 I would be set! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I have instructions for 72-402 and that calls for two tone TPS scheme. The two tone TPS could have been a west coast thing, back then both coasts did things differently. I don't recall seeing any A-7's at Cecil Field in the two tone TPS scheme when I was there or afterwards. If you have photos then that trumps everything, kind of hard to argue with a photo. Reddog :lol: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 Well, I don't think VA-195 was at Cecil. I sure don't recall seeing them there during my Viking days. This pic in the magazine is of two aircraft with wings folded, parked alongside each other. You can see the bottom of the wing is very light gray. The fuselage, under the wing is also very light gray. You really cannot see so much underneath because the topside gray comes all the way down to the bottom. Also the tail is in pretty heavy shadow so it is hard to make out also. When I get a chance I'll try to scan the pic and post it here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Nope, VA-195 was a west coast squadron, along with VA-27. The squadrons at Cecil from what I can remember were VA-12, 15, 37, 46, 66, 72, 81, 82, 83, 86, 87, 105 and 174. We also had one reserve A-7 squadron there, I believe it was VA-203, and one Marine A-4 squadron there when I first got there, can't remember what squadron that was though. Reddog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted June 4, 2008 Author Share Posted June 4, 2008 (edited) Ok, here is the pic. Sorry about the quality, but it was photocopied out of a magazine. Pic was taken in 1982, according to the article, which, as I said, was a June 1983 issue. It is hard to make out too much, but the giveaways are the underside of the folded wing, the pylons, and the fuselage under the wing. Actually, the pic in the magazine shows the fuselage under the wing a little better than this scan does. In the scan, it does not appear the light gray goes all the way up to the leading edge of the wing. But in the magazine, it obviously does. Oh, and if you have instructions for 72-402, what are the color call outs. Got any remnants of that 72-402 sheet? Edited June 4, 2008 by DutyCat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 (edited) 72-402 calls for 36320 on the top, 36495 on the bottom and 36440 on the top of the leading edge of the wings and top of the fuselage spine. I have a complete set of decals, haven't used them yet but plan to do a VA-82 jet. That photo definitely shows a two tone paint scheme. I don't recall seeing any A-7's at Cecil painted like that. Could have been a west coast thing or an early TPS scheme before I got into A-7's. When I got to VA-82 we still had two jets in the grey/white scheme, the rest where one color grey with low vis markings. Reddog Edited June 5, 2008 by Reddog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DutyCat Posted June 5, 2008 Author Share Posted June 5, 2008 36440? Light Gull Gray? That makes no sense, especially on the leading edge of the wing. Its not even a TPS color. I got the the instructions for 72-403 getting mailed to me, so we'll see what it says. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog Posted June 5, 2008 Share Posted June 5, 2008 The painting instructions are the same as the ones lgl007 (Greg) posted, even the squadrons are the same. I don't think superscale got it right on this one. :D Reddog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
warhawk1130 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) Ok, here is the pic. Sorry about the quality, but it was photocopied out of a magazine. Pic was taken in 1982, according to the article, which, as I said, was a June 1983 issue. It is hard to make out too much, but the giveaways are the underside of the folded wing, the pylons, and the fuselage under the wing. Actually, the pic in the magazine shows the fuselage under the wing a little better than this scan does. In the scan, it does not appear the light gray goes all the way up to the leading edge of the wing. But in the magazine, it obviously does. Oh, and if you have instructions for 72-402, what are the color call outs. Got any remnants of that 72-402 sheet? You are in luck....I was in VA-195 at the time of this photo...they were switching us to different airwings at the time (82-83) cvw-11 to cvw-15, cvw-15 to cvw-9, it was hell for us, always having to repaint the tail letters LOL. I was an AZ assigned to maintenance control and the new lowvis scheme was amazing to see. From what I recall, the aircraft was lowvis gray over the entire airframe with the exception of the underside of the wings and the fuselage below that area (length of the wing, lower end extending all the way under and to the oposite side)which was a dirty white. VA-195 was stationed at NAS lemoore until around 1987 when they transfered, along with VA-192) to atsugi after the F/A-18 transition. Edited June 25, 2008 by warhawk1130 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
warhawk1130 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) This is a FS9 repaint I am still in work on, going from memory..... Edited June 25, 2008 by warhawk1130 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
warhawk1130 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 And, the final set, model finished! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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