Julien (UK) Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Hi, building a USN T-2A and the instructions say the orange is International Orange. However in the pics I have the orange is very bright, almost but not quite dayglo. What is this colour? Cheers, Julien Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Irving Babbitt Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 (edited) I tried out cybermodeler's new color schemes and color reference tables features, and for the TA-4 they have FS 12197 International Orange listed, too. I certainly understand what you're getting at regarding the lack of brightness, especially if you're using MM enamels as I did on my Luft F-104's tip tanks. Even over a white undercoat, it just looked kinda dull. Edited June 8, 2008 by Irving Babbitt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Julien (UK) Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 I tried out cybermodeler's new color schemes and color reference tables features, and for the TA-4 they have FS 12197 International Orange listed, too.I certainly understand what you're getting at regarding the lack of brightness, especially if you're using MM enamels as I did on my Luft F-104's tip tanks. Even over a white undercoat, it just looked kinda dull. For Luft F-104's xtracolor do the RAL2005 Leuchtorange, this does look right for German birds as I have seen it used. I am thinking of maybe putting a thin coat of something like this down and then the International orange on top? Julien Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aaronw Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Take a look at MM Chevy Engine Red, I know it sounds weird but it works for some versions of "International Orange" as it is a bright orange-red color. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 DO NOT, repeat DO NOT trust any photos you've seen published - ESPECIALLY online. Navy jets are painted FS 12197 International Orange and white, period. Get your FS fan deck and match to that. It's not bright red, it's International Orange, and there is *nothing* fluorescent/day glo about it in any way, shape, or form. The Germans used fluorescent colors on their airplanes, but the USN hasn't for decades. It's just plain old International Orange (which is actually a very red orange, but still). It's the same color used by the USCG and the same color used on chase airplanes at the AFFTC at Edwards. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hoops Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 International Orange may be right, but every time that I have looked at Model Master's version of it, it is way way to orange. From the bottle, Model Master Chevy Engine red is a much better match for the actual aircraft. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Walker Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 From the bottle, Model Master Chevy Engine red is a much better match for the actual aircraft. I agree, the Chevy Engine Red is just about perfect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sc2f100 Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Hawkeye's Hobbies makes a pretty nice match called fluorescent red-orange. I've used it, and it definitely looks the part. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aaronw Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 This is Model Master Acryl International Orange and this is MM Acryl Chevy Engine Red Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PBoilermaker Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I'd say it is closer to the bottled Chevy Engine Red. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 (edited) International Orange may be right, but every time that I have looked at Model Master's version of it, it is way way to orange. From the bottle, Model Master Chevy Engine red is a much better match for the actual aircraft. Which is why A) I don't use MM paint (they're crap), and b.) I have an FS fan deck on my desk. I didn't say MM's 12197 was the paint to use, just that Navy and USCG airplanes use 12197 (as, for that matter, does the Golden Gate Bridge authority). J Edited June 9, 2008 by Jennings Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Hawkeye's Hobbies makes a pretty nice match called fluorescent red-orange. I've used it, and it definitely looks the part. Except it's not fluorescent on the real airplanes... ;) J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Irving Babbitt Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 (edited) Wow, thanks for the confirmation on the Engine Red. My F-104 was one of Tamiya's 1/100 kits and I debated long and hard between the two shades and finally decided that International Orange would give the better scale look. But, after gentle weathering, a very fine mist coat to even out the decals, and a semi-gloss finish the orange washed out and looked a bit dull. The lesson learned from that build was this: if you need a color to be bright at the end of the build, make sure it's *really* bright from the start. PS/edit: Aaronw, thanks for the pictures, seeing the paints photographed confirmed what I was thinking. By the way, your masking work on the helicopter is way above average. Excellent work, if you don't mind me saying so. Edited June 9, 2008 by Irving Babbitt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jay Chladek Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Nope, it isn't dayglow or flourescent either according to my Mk1 eyeball. At the Combat Air Museum in Topeka, they have a TA-4J Skyhawk and it is the same condition it was in when they got it. The orange was not flourescent and if anything, it looked like it was touched up in spots with probably some Krylon spray cans at the maitenance depot. Orange does fade, so it is possible for it to go from a reddish deep orange to brighter orange, depending on how long the plane has been out in the sun during a typical year of nugget training between repaints. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 (edited) FWIW Accordning to the "MIL-STD-2161A (AS), PAINT SCHEMES AND EXTERIOR MARKINGS FOR US NAVY AND MARINE CORPS AIRCRAFT" the orange used on the T-2 is FS 12197. HTH Reddog :blink: Edited June 9, 2008 by Reddog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aim9xray Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Except it's not fluorescent on the real airplanes... Maybe. Depends on the time period. If Julien is building a T-2A (aka T2J-1) as he posted, fluorescent red orange would be correct for the late-late 50's - early 60's timeframe. (Ref: Amendment 1, MIL-C-18263(Aer) dated 30 April 1959 -via The Official Monogram US Navy and Marine Corps Aircraft Color Guide - Volume 3). So Julien - what exactly are you building and what are the other markings (i.e. squadron etc.)?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Julien (UK) Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 I am building a T-2A. I am backdating the Matchboc C with an old conversion by Esoteric models. details Here http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index....howtopic=151168 If I recall (not at home right now) decals for VT-7 and VT-9 in Orange/White and I think VT-7 in Grey/White. My offical US source of MM paint (or Chuck as I call him) is getting me the Chevy Red as I like the look of that colour) Julien Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 There's nothing magic about Chevy Engine Red. Just about any red with some yellow added to it will get you there. I mixed my own from Tamiya red and yellow and it looks great. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian P: Fightertown Decals Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I happen to have both Chevy Engine Red and Intl Orange here right now in trying to select paint and colors for a new decal sheet. The pictures I took are tough to replicate the color, but my thoughts are neither is 100% on. The Orange looks too dark and has a touch too much brown compared to the paint chip. The Red is too red. I'm going to play with mixes tonight, but my guess is mixing the two would get it right on. I'm thinking 3:1/Orange:Red... -brian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ReiRei0 Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Another consideration is how fast colors like red and orange fade in the hot sun of places like, say, Pensacola. The color you see on that airplane a couple years after it was last in the paint shop might be noticeably different than what's on the TSO, and what it looked like a day out of the paint shop. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jennings Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Regardless, the tech orders call for FS 12197. Faded or not faded, the original color is 12197, not fluorescent, day-glo, or otherwise. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
f14tomcat Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I found that MM Italian Guards Red is a good red orange. Wayne Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aaronw Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 (edited) There's nothing magic about Chevy Engine Red. Just about any red with some yellow added to it will get you there. I mixed my own from Tamiya red and yellow and it looks great.J Who said MM Chevy engine red is magical? It happens to be a close match in a popular easily obtained brand of model paint. If you have a mixed paint you prefer, great. I don't understand why Chevy Engine Red as an option for International Orange tends to set some people off, it seems to do so more than most colors. BTW it is very close to the color used on the Golden Gate Bridge so if that is International Orange FS12197, then I am even more sold on Chevy Engine Red, and I've been across that bridge quite a few times not basing that on photos. Next time I'm up there I think I'll bring a bottle of the MM paint. I wonder if it is a crime to paint the bridge with model paints? Edited June 10, 2008 by Aaronw Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Julien (UK) Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 BTW it is very close to the color used on the Golden Gate Bridge so if that is International Orange FS12197, then I am even more sold on Chevy Engine Red, and I've been across that bridge quite a few times not basing that on photos. Next time I'm up there I think I'll bring a bottle of the MM paint. I wonder if it is a crime to paint the bridge with model paints? Not a crime, but would take you a few bottles of MM to paint the Golden Gate Bridge me thinks Julien Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aaronw Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Not a crime, but would take you a few bottles of MM to paint the Golden Gate Bridge me thinks :D Julien Not the whole bridge, just some color samples jeez. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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