B-24D Ploesti Raider -- Old Baldy

[Mark S.]

Gents:

New 72nd scale decals for your B-24D

Mark

[Dennis the peasant]

Good deal mate, nice to have an another option for a Ploesti bird. I like the tanker also.

Dennis

[Chuck1945]

Link to purchase? Or are you going to be at the IPMS Nationals? I can wait till then if need be.

[Mark S.]

Chuck:

The link is: http://www.millcreekconsultants.com/WolfPak_home.html They will be on sale next week.

Mark

[Steve N]

Looks great! The more Ploesti raider decals the better!

Just one minor nitpick..I believe the insignias on the B-24 should have a red surround. I don't think the border was changed to blue until September.

SN

[Chuck1945]

Looks great! The more Ploesti raider decals the better!

Just one minor nitpick..I believe the insignias on the B-24 should have a red surround. I don't think the border was changed to blue until September.

SN

The side view in the artwork indicates a yellow outline with bars added. I would need to visit my library to see if there is a picture of this one in Black Sunday or the book about the 98 BG at Ploesti to check on the bars. Off the top of my head, I dont recall seeing any red borders - mostly just stars within blue circles. The 389 BG was a relative newcomer so some its aircraft may have featured later versions of the national insignia, but the other bomb groups had been in theater for quite a while so most of their aircraft would be wearing earlier markings.

[Steve N]

I looked through my copy of Black Sunday. Some of the planes have bars added to the insignia..most obviously have the red border. On some, the border appears darker than the star-circle, but this may be due to fading of the original insignia, or an artifact of the film/processing.

Of course, with only B&W photos to go by, it's a judgement call. I based my belief on the fact that the red border was specified in early '43, and wasn't changed to blue until the end of summer. The Straberry B!tch has red-bordered insignia, and she didn't enter service until September.

SN

[Mark S.]

Gents:

I had a conversation with a gent who was a prop mechanic servicing those B-24's Although he admits that his memory is fading at 90 he remarked that there were a wide range of markings on the aircraft. He also mentioned that yellow bordered circles with a white star were common. From a visual standpoint it's very difficult to determine color from a black and white photo when the colors have similar values for saturation, and brightness.

Mark

[Steve N]

Yeah, the summer of '43 was very much a transitional period for U.S. markings..espeically in North Africa, where you had a mix of star-in-circle insignia, some with yellow "Operation Torch" surrounds, and some with bars added (some outlined, some not.) And even more so with the Ploesti raiders, which were a motley crew of bomb groups from in theatre and borrowed from England. Some of the British-based aircraft even had "grayed out" insignias to reduce visibility. Add to that the fact that almost all the available photos are in black and white, and it makes for some frustrating research!

SN

[Mark S.]

Gents:

The decals are in and I'm accepting orders.

http://www.millcreekconsultants.com/WolfPak_home.html

Mark

[Dennis the peasant]

Yeah, the summer of '43 was very much a transitional period for U.S. markings..espeically in North Africa, where you had a mix of star-in-circle insignia, some with yellow "Operation Torch" surrounds, and some with bars added (some outlined, some not.) And even more so with the Ploesti raiders, which were a motley crew of bomb groups from in theatre and borrowed from England. Some of the British-based aircraft even had "grayed out" insignias to reduce visibility. Add to that the fact that almost all the available photos are in black and white, and it makes for some frustrating research!

SN

After looking at the book "Ploesti, Black Sunday," there are at least two pictures of aircraft from the same squadron/group as Old Baldy at Ploesti (one inflight and one crashed) that had yellow surrounds on their national insignia. The fin red/white/blue tail flash and ID letter (in one case) is plainly visible, and the national insignia surround is clearly lighter than the red of the tail flash and ID letter. The surround only covers the roundel, not the bars which both planes have painted on.

Dennis

[dixieflyer]

Not to nit-pick, but wasn't the red on the fin flash a very dark red, much darker IIRC that the insignia red used by the US in their short-lived surrounds? Seems like it was a very dark red as was used on Brit roundels of the period. I'm not saying that the outline is not supposed to be yellow, but that even is if was red, it was a lighter red. (Of course this is all wacko if they were using orthochromatic film instead of panchromatic. ;) )

Warren

[Mark S.]

Gents:

You need to remember that pigments in those days especially reds and some yellows faded quickly. It wasn't until the 70's that they developed a red that wouldn't fade under ultraviolet light in the big three automakers. It could be that the red of the surround faded since it was factory applied before the additional markings were added. It would be interesting if someone had knowledge of the serial nos. of the aircraft from production records that carried the red surround. As for the yellow surround on Old Baldy it was probably field applied.

Mark

[dixieflyer]

Very true Mark. I just wanted to bring up the fact that, if memory serves, the red used on the fin flashes was not necessarily the same shade as the red used on the U.S. insignia surrounds in '43. Add in fading, as you wisely brought up, and us not knowing the film type (although much less orthochromatic film was used then) or filters used on the cameras, and it becomes dangerous for us to become too dogmatic when it comes to interpreting B&W photos.

Warren

[Steve N]

Just to muddy the waters some more...

If the insignias had yellow surrounds, those would have been applied at the same time as the RAF fin flash. The bars and red border would have been added weeks or months later. The red border was narrower than the yellow surround (on some Tidal Wave aircraft very thin) which is why you can see the yellow peeking out from behind in some photos..as correctly depicted on the decal sheet. Looking back at the artwork though, I noticed the colors on the fin flash are reversed. The red bar should be forward, and the blue aft.

As I said earlier, I'm basing my belief in the red border on the fact that it the spec wasn't changed to blue until at least a few weeks after Tidal Wave..meaning any aircraft on the raid with star & bar insignia (in my opinion) would most likely have had red borders. As an aside, the Strawberry B!tch didn't enter service until a month after the raid, and she carried red-bordered insignia.

I hope I haven't offended anyone by starting this discussion..it certainly wasn't my intent.

SN

Edited July 2, 2008 by Steve N

[Mark S.]

Gents:

As an engineer I work from facts and not supposition. My information indicates yellow around the star in the circle. If anyone has hard photographic evidence contrary please post. A color photo would be what it takes.

Mark

[Steve N]

Mark,

I actually agree with you on the yellow..in fact, that's a detail no other decal maker has ever gotten right. I was referring to the border around the bars, and possibly the star, within the yellow. Just so we're on the same page, here's a really crude rendering of what I'm talking about. Like you, I wish someone had shot a few color pics of the Ploesti birds.

Steve