Adam Baker Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 (edited) Well, after pulling out my CH-53E, I pulled this kit out as well. Again, no progress, but a pic of the box, as a starting point Like my -53, Im stuck on how far I want to go w/ detail on this one. No budget to buy anything aftermarket at the moment, so anything I do will be scratch, and since I dont really have any experience w/ scratch building, its probably just gonna be a seat of the pants sort of thing, haha. Need to work on gathering up reference images, so far I dont believe I have any Black Hawk/Pave Hawk images to work w/. And since Im going to be working on scratch building stuff, reference images are a definite must. Hopefully I'll have progress to report by the end of the weekend. Building will be slow, since I only have a couple of days each week where I've got any free time to even think about building. Edited November 29, 2008 by Adam Baker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Avus Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 (edited) Welcome aboard! Since I'm working on a Pave Hawk too I can help you with reference pictures and informatin gathered through out the years. Let me know what you need. Edited June 29, 2008 by Avus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted June 29, 2008 Author Share Posted June 29, 2008 At this point, I'd take pretty much anything. I dont have any images saved for Blackhawks/Pave Hawks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Avus Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 OK, to get an idea on what you are about to build you could have a look here on the ARC walkarounds #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 on the USAF picture gallery and on Primeportal, that's where I got 90% of the picture I have. As for the model I have all the aftermarket I knew about (2 Eduard PE sets and 2 Cobra Co resin sets) and still I am scratch building a lot of details. I admit that I am particularly picky on this model, but consider that the interior has as good as no details, many of which can be seen even once the two halves are put together. Hope this helps for the start. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 Doh! Ive gotten most of hte walk arounds here on ARC for my CH-53, dont know why I didnt think about it for this one, haha. I think Ive gotten quite a few for my '53 from PrimePortal. However, I never thought about the USAF website, thanks a ton for that one. May be able to find one's for my '53 as well. For detail, Im probably going to be trying my hands a lot at scratch building. I'd hoped to get the Eduard sets and some CC sets for both this one, as well as the '53, but w/ the wife not having worked in over 3 months, there's just no budget for it. Guess thats not such a bad thing. Just pushes me to try new things, and expand my abilities. Ive never tried to do what Im about to do on either of the models Im doing for this GB. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Doppel Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Hi Guys, I don't know if this will assist you much but I recently converted the Italeri 1/48 Pavehawk back to a S70A9 Black Hawk of the 5AAAVN here in Australia. I did a review and detailed build description which may or may not be of use to you with interior detail. I have attached the link, if it is of use. Besides the fact that the Pavehawk has the internal long range tank etc, I have improved the interior a bit to correctly portray the interior of a Blackhawk. Some of the items may be of use to you http://www.aussiemodeller.com/pages/Galler..._Blackhawk.html Regards Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aggressor Supporter Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 Looking forward to this big Pave Hawk build! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Avus Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 I'll be following your build, Adam, as I am working on the same helo, so feel free to ask for information. <thread stealing> Great build, Andrew! </thread stealing> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew Doppel Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I'll be following your build, Adam, as I am working on the same helo, so feel free to ask for information.<thread stealing> Great build, Andrew! </thread stealing> Cheers Avus B) Andrew Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 (edited) Well, I finally got around to starting on this one tonight. Ive kinda gotten burnt out a little bit on my '53 build, especially w/ the fact that I honestly doubt its going to be done before the Jan 1 deadline, but thats another story. Pulled the Pave Hawk out, and just started going through it. This one is going to be done pretty much OOB. I dont plan on doing any of the stuff to this, that Im trying w/ the '53. Probably do a few fixes here & there that will just generally make the completed model look better, but thats about it. No major hacking on the model, or anything like that. Here are some pic's I took a little while ago, just pretty much dry fitting parts together. Discovered several fit issues that are going to have to be solved. The main issue being the fitment of the interior floor pan. It just doesnt fit well at all, all the way around. Ive taken note of several things that Avus has done in his build, that Im going to try doing w/ mine. However, the biggest issue w/ the floor that Ive discovered, is it seems that the tub where the belly hook is located, seems to be too deep. Its causing the floor pan to be pushed upwards, preventing it from lining up w/ the troop doors at all. As it stands right now, Im almost definitely going to have to shave some material off that tub, just to get the floor to sit on its alignment tabs, and get it aligned w/ the doors. Just things dry fitted together In this shot, if you look at the rear bulk head, you can see htat it doesnt match the contours of the fuselage. I saw that Avus built up the fuselage, to make it work, I think Im going to attempt the same thing. Here's a shot looking at the backside of the rear bulkhead, showing the fit problem And then the problem w/ the floor not matching w/ the rear troop doors. Port Side Starboard side The port side seems to be the one that has the bigger fit issue at the moment. Almost like the floor pan isnt sitting level. And at this point, it wouldnt surprise me much if its in fact, not sitting level. Ive also noticed that the interior roof panel doesnt match very well where the upper control panel is located. Not sure what Im going to do about that, but I'd imagine I'll add material, similar to how Avus "massaged" his parts to make them fit. Edited September 17, 2008 by Adam Baker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
charles Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 i will enjoy this one Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Avus Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 Wow, I've been quoted! TO your questions: The main issue being the fitment of the interior floor pan. It just doesnt fit well at all, all the way around. Ive taken note of several things that Avus has done in his build, that Im going to try doing w/ mine. [...] Ive also noticed that the interior roof panel doesnt match very well where the upper control panel is located. Not sure what Im going to do about that, but I'd imagine I'll add material, similar to how Avus "massaged" his parts to make them fit. Guess it's the only way to "fill the gap", since you have to it before painting. I've added styrene strips and then sanded them where necessary. The gaps have been drammatically reduced but still the fit is not perfect. Maybe I'll fill them once in place trying not to damage (too much) the paint. However, the biggest issue w/ the floor that Ive discovered, is it seems that the tub where the belly hook is located, seems to be too deep. It is! Eduard's instructions tell you how much to cut it. I'm having problem opening their page at www.eduard.cz but there you can search for the product and they also have the instructions in PDF. Looking forward to see your progress on this build! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted September 17, 2008 Author Share Posted September 17, 2008 Ok, haha, glad to know Im not nuts w/ that tub on the bottom. According to the Eduard instructions on their site, 1.5mm needs to be removed from the tub. I'll probably work on that this weekend. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
doupnik Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 (edited) OK, not being critical here, but I've noticed some problems. Your 53 is way too squat and they are supposed to have 3 engines, not two, and those side doors are way too big. All kidding aside, I'm looking forward to your build. Looks like you have your work cut out for you... Out of the frying pan and into the fire. ;) mason Edited September 20, 2008 by doupnik Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted September 20, 2008 Author Share Posted September 20, 2008 (edited) Hahaha, yea, Ive noticed those same problems. And for some reason, this darn tail rotor wont fold, hahaha. IM actually working on this one right now. Just got done trimming down the rim of the tub on the bottom of the interior floor panel, and I have to say that the fit inside the fuselage is a whole lot better now. It sits down on its locating tabs now, and the rear bulkhead seems to almost fit perfect. Gonna put it all back together & see how it fits. Here you can see the floor fits pretty even w/ the bottom of the troop door, but there's still a pretty nasty gap between the 2, thats going to take a lot of filling. Guess Im glad I have a bunch of sheet styrene laying around. And unfortunately the rear bulkhead doesnt fit as well as I was thinking it would. But its not too bad. I think that I'll mark the position of the bulkhead onto the sides of the fuselage, and then just start gluing in pieces of .010 styrene, until its really close. Edited September 20, 2008 by Adam Baker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 Well, I managed to get a fair bit of this one done today. Got a lot of parts assembled for painting. Going to try to get as many assemblies together and painted in batches as I can. Then I can work on assembling the larger sections. I can already tell its going to be real interesting getting the interior put in & the gaps removed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Avus Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 (edited) Then I can work on assembling the larger sections. I can already tell its going to be real interesting getting the interior put in & the gaps removed. Yep, that was my biggest concern! Regarding the rear bulkhead I "cheated" a little, since there should be some kind of sound proofing I added a wide strip of styrene tha covers the gap. Edited September 22, 2008 by Avus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 Ok, made a good bit of progress tonight. I was really hoping to get some paint down tonight, but its not happening. Just got too much prep work to do still to be able to put down any paint. Oh well, hopefully this weekend. Started by working on the gap around the rear bulkhead. My last set of pic's has a shot of the huge gap around the rear bulkhead. I started by adding a piece of .010" styrene to each side of the fuselage, and then test fitting the interior, to see how it looked. It looked better, but there was still a noticeable gap around the bulkhead. So I pulled it apart, and then added a second piece of .010" styrene to each side. After adding the second piece to each side, the fit looked a lot better. There's still a small gap, but I can live w/ it. Once its all assembled, it shouldnt be visible, and I think that once I get the fuselage glued togehter, Im going to add some styrene to the back side of the bulkhead, just in case there's any light that comes through from the top. This is how the gap looks now, after the sheet styrene was added. Here you can see the styrene overhanging the door opening. I wanted to do it this way, so there wasnt a visible step inside the crew compartment. Once I got that taken care of, I started working on the gap between the interior floor pan, and the troop door. I started out by measuring the width of the door, and then I cut a piece of .020" styrene, and stuck it in the door. And once it was all cleaned up, this is how it looks now. It fills the gap almost completely. Definitely looks a whole lot better than it did. I think that Im going to find a way to brace the interior floor pan, so that when its all glued together, the floor pan wont move, and then that way I can put down putty in the gap thats left, and not have to worry about it cracking out w/ the floor pan moving. Unfortunately its going to mean having to paint the interior parts, partially assembling the interior, and hten assembling the fuselage. And then having to fill the seam w/ putty, and then having ot repaint that area. Definitely going to be interesting getting it all done. Here's how the interior of the fuselage looks w/ the styrene added to it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Avus Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 That's the way to do it. Great work! Interesting: you added styrene to the fuselage, I added it to the floor. The result is the same but the approach is different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 I thought about adding it to the floor pan, but it looked like the edge of the floor pan had an angle to it, so I wasnt sure how well I could get it to line up w/ the fuselage. I think that maybe adding it to the floor pan might be better, but this worked out pretty good. I just have to make sure to add reinforcement underneath the floor pan, so that it doesnt move at all once its all glued together, otherwise what ever putty I put in will crack & flake out once I start working on cleaning it up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marine4 ever Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 nice work adam. i like scratch building!!!! semper fi Dan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted September 27, 2008 Author Share Posted September 27, 2008 (edited) Just thought I'd post up a small update as Im workin this one. Was finally able to get a little bit of paint on this one this week. Got the rear area of the interior painted, but dont have any pic's at the moment. Today's task has been to box in the areas around the corner windows in the nose. Made a decent bit of progress so far, and I think it looks pretty good. This is where Im at right now. A shot of the port side, to give you an idea of what I started with. And this is what ive gotten done on the starboard side. The styrene was formed by putting a piece of .010" styrene into the opening, and tracing it w/ a pencil to get the correct shape. Then I cut it, and started working on it to make sure it was the right shape. Once I was happy w/ the shape, I assembled the fuselage w/ the interior in place, and then I layed the piece of styrene in the opening, and traced around the interior pieces, so I knew where to cut the styrene. Once that was done, I trimmed it and then glued it in place. And voila, thats about where Im at right now. Now the task is to figure out how to get the small curved section thats still open. Its got a compound curve to it, so thats going to be interesting. It woudlnt be so bad, but all the styrene has to go inside the opening. The window for that area fills it up pretty good, so I cant let the styrene overlap the edge of the fuselage. Ive got a copule of ideas on how to pull it off, but we'll see. Im hoping to get the interior painted up today, so that I can get it all assembled and into the fuselage, and start working on getting the fuselage buttoned up for the last time, but we'll see. I want to get these window areas boxed in before I do any painting. Anyone got any clue what color that area should be? Im going to assume it should probably be the same flat black as the cockpit. *edit* Ok, played around w/ it, and Ive got the starboard side pretty much finished up. It was a lot easier to get it in than I was thinking it was going to be. Thankfully it doesnt have to be extremely accurate, once the window is in you cant really be able to tell what it looks like, and it'll almost disappear once its all painted black.. *edit #2* Ok, just got hte port side done. Not quite as clean as the starboard side, didnt get the styrene trimmed quite as close as the starboard side, but again, once its all painted black, and the windows are in, you'll never be able to tell, and this one definitely isnt a show piece, its just a nice fun OOB build to give me a break from my '53 build. Now its time to paint the cockpit. Hopefully I can get the interior assembled tonight. Edited September 27, 2008 by Adam Baker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
doupnik Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Nice work! Your build is coming along, I like the styrene work. With yours and the other H-60 builds I am really thinking about picking one up for the stash, I may even build it. mason Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted September 28, 2008 Author Share Posted September 28, 2008 (edited) K, got some parts painted. Now Im working on dry brushing the instrument panel & other parts, trying to pick out some details, and then I'll start working on assembling things. Unfortunately I forgot to paint a few things, but not a huge deal, I can fire the AB back up again tomorrow and paint what I missed. Might actually manage to get the fuselage together this weekend. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to bring out all the detail & such, and make the cockpit & interiors more realistic? My experience is pretty much limited to just basic dry brushing of the details on the IP & that sort of thing. I'll dry brush pretty much everything, to help high light things, but beyond that I dont really know how to do anything. One of the things I'd really like to do is to make the instrument panel more realistic. Dry brushing helps a ton, bringing out the details, but I want to have more than that when Im done, but not really sure how to go about achieving it. Edited September 28, 2008 by Adam Baker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adam Baker Posted September 29, 2008 Author Share Posted September 29, 2008 Ok, next update. Got most of the interior assembled, and ready to go. Drybrushed pretty much everything, to help bring out the details. Not spectacular, but I like it. And now I have it setting up, letting the glue dry, so that I can start assembling the fuselage. Not sure if Im going to get the fuselage started tonight or not. If I dont, I'll start working on it on Tuesday night. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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