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to day i saw the coooolest thing i have ever seen. i saw 2 marine ch-46 sea knight at tree top level hauling but to fight these fires we have around hear. but i didn't have a camra :thumbsup: so if they show up to marrow i weel try and have a camra with me

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to day i saw the coooolest thing i have ever seen. i saw 2 marine ch-46 sea knight at tree top level hauling but to fight these fires we have around hear. but i didn't have a camra :woot.gif: so if they show up to marrow i weel try and have a camra with me

I had to do that crap last year, it was not fun. We did not have any com with the Fire Fighters, it sucked good thing I only had to do it one day.

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Get some good pics of both sides please.....i missed two Firefighter 46s the other day at the Gap fire.

to day i saw the coooolest thing i have ever seen. i saw 2 marine ch-46 sea knight at tree top level hauling but to fight these fires we have around hear. but i didn't have a camra :woot.gif: so if they show up to marrow i weel try and have a camra with me
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Get some good pics of both sides please.....i missed two Firefighter 46s the other day at the Gap fire.

Me too, we had them flying out of Lemoore on the Oliver fire, but I couldn't get a good shot, everytime they came over I was in heavy trees or brush.

SSgtd6152, I imagine that must be frustrating. We had a milco aircraft to talk to the 4 CH-46s assigned to the fire, but even with that comms seemed to be poor with the 46s. Just know you guys are still appreciated on the ground even if not as effective and efficient as you could be with the proper equipment.

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Me too, we had them flying out of Lemoore on the Oliver fire, but I couldn't get a good shot, everytime they came over I was in heavy trees or brush.

SSgtd6152, I imagine that must be frustrating. We had a milco aircraft to talk to the 4 CH-46s assigned to the fire, but even with that comms seemed to be poor with the 46s. Just know you guys are still appreciated on the ground even if not as effective and efficient as you could be with the proper equipment.

It was the same thing with the 53, we had to have San Diego's fire bird with us at all times. The guys on the deck would call him he would call us it did get frustrating. But the Governater used us unlike the last guy (Gray Davis) that was in office when 1/2 of San Diego was on Fire just because he did not GW for help. Mr. Davis put politics above the people. My squadron had 9 up bird and the President told Davis he could use us and he did not take up the President's offer I think it was a good thing that guy was fired.

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I had to do that crap last year, it was not fun. We did not have any com with the Fire Fighters, it sucked good thing I only had to do it one day.

One of our pilots said he felt bad for the Military aircraft last year and it was the perfect example of civies going "more helicopters=problem solved, how hard can it be??" Pretty freaking hard, turns out military helicopters aren't equipped to fight forest fires :thumbsup:

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...turns out military helicopters aren't equipped to fight forest fires...

Most of them were designed more with starting fires in mind...but in a pinch, I'm sure they're appreciated. Didn't anyone think to work the comms bugs out beforehand? Some of those red-patches that work LZs could have come in handy in that situation, I would think. I'm not talking about crypto and just handing over radios to anyone, but embedding a radio operator with the right gear with the smoke jumpers and firefighters just makes sense (to me at least).

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Well, not a USMC fire fighting CH-46, but a Swedish one!

Over here it's called HKP 4 (HKP means Helicopter, and

the 4 just following the series starting at 1..) and it carries

the Bambi Bucket. Carries about 3000 liters of water.

Sorry about the large pics... ;)

2007-10-20_002.jpg

2007-10-20_003.jpg

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Most of them were designed more with starting fires in mind...but in a pinch, I'm sure they're appreciated. Didn't anyone think to work the comms bugs out beforehand? Some of those red-patches that work LZs could have come in handy in that situation, I would think. I'm not talking about crypto and just handing over radios to anyone, but embedding a radio operator with the right gear with the smoke jumpers and firefighters just makes sense (to me at least).

The helicopters are quite capable, Columbia uses the Vertol 107 (CH-46) and Boeing 234 (CH-47) very effectively, and LA County is using Blackhawks.

The real problem is politics and money. An obscure law from the 30's prevents the regular use of the military on fires which would provide them with the experience to get really good (they seem to have the skills just not the practice), and would probably loosen up some money to equip them with compatable radios. A certain number of pilots receive training each year but my understanding is there is nothing in place to make sure the pilots who actually end up flying a fire are the same pilots who got the training.

The contract aircraft do a great job, they have some great pilots so I'd hate to see them go. On the otherhand I'd love to see the military better integrated and not just a jury rigged resource of last resort.

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We used to train for fire bucket standby all of the time both at Tustin and Futenma with the 53's

What's the capacity of a 53's bucket? In liters, if you have, I use the metric system.. <_<

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I know Heavy Lift was using a 53, I think it was tanked for 1000 gallons (3780 liters). The most recent aircraft iD guide came out in 1994 so the 53 isn't listed.

Most of the type 3 (light) helicopters (Bell 206, A-Star, Allouette 3 etc) typically carry 100-150 gallons (378-567 liters), the Lama can carry 180 gallons (680 liters)

Type 2 (medium) helicopters (Bell 205, 212, 412, Sikorsky S-58T) typically carry 300-450 gallons (1134-1701 liters)

The type 1 (heavy) helicopters carry a lot more

Bell 214 660-800 gallons (2495-3024 liters)

UH-60 660 gallons (2495 liters)

Super Puma 900 gallons (3402 liters)

Sikorosky S-61 900 gallons (3402 liters)

Vertol 107 (CH-46) 1000 gallons (3780 liters) although I believe the USMC CH-46s are carrying much less for some reason.

Boeing 234 (CH-47) 3000 gallons (11340 liters)

Sikorsky S-64 Skycrane 2000 gallons (7560 liters)

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Thanks a lot Aaronw, very nice information! :thumbsup:

We carry about 2000 liters with our Super Puma in the Swedish AF,

our CH-46 carry about 2500 liters. When I talked to a Dutch AF Cougar

crew (modern Super Puma), they told me they had 5000 liter buckets

for their aircraft. They also had buckets for the Chinook, carrying about

10000 liters, probably the same you mention.

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Thanks a lot Aaronw, very nice information! :salute:

We carry about 2000 liters with our Super Puma in the Swedish AF,

our CH-46 carry about 2500 liters. When I talked to a Dutch AF Cougar

crew (modern Super Puma), they told me they had 5000 liter buckets

for their aircraft. They also had buckets for the Chinook, carrying about

10000 liters, probably the same you mention.

There are a ton of variables, climate, altitude and of course how the helicopter is equipped. I'd say it is safe to guess most military helos have to carry less water because of all the equipment on the helicopter. Most of the civilian helos are stripped of any non-essential equipment. If you have a look at the 234's flown by Columbia they even cut away most of the side sponsons to reduce weight.

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I know Heavy Lift was using a 53, I think it was tanked for 1000 gallons (3780 liters). The most recent aircraft iD guide came out in 1994 so the 53 isn't listed.

HEAVYLIFT never actually flew the CH-53D with the internal tank , N68HL only flew with a bucket. N53HL was being set-up with the internal tank but wasnt completed when the company closed and sold to HTS. HTS now has Heavylifts last CH-54 and the two CH-53s......maybe they will fly again under the HTS name.

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