chuck540z3 Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Just making sure the gear doors need red trim like most navy jets, but I'm having difficulty getting pics of this squadron. Also, it would appear that the air brake flaps on the bottom of the rear wings are totally red inside and also the area between the rear flaps. Anybody know for sure? TIA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andre Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Just making sure the gear doors need red trim like most navy jets, but I'm having difficulty getting pics of this squadron. Also, it would appear that the air brake flaps on the bottom of the rear wings are totally red inside and also the area between the rear flaps. The few walkaround pics I have do not show the red trim on 70s USN Phantom gear doors. The inside of the speed brake itself is normally red, with the speed brake well white. HTH! Cheers, Andre Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted July 23, 2008 Share Posted July 23, 2008 Tough question, that...I'm looking in the C&M book on the Navy Phantoms, and the section for VF-74 is a nice one...the gorgeous one with the big red lightning on the upper fuselage (one of my favs) definitely DOES have the red trim on the doors, and is dated 1973. Then another taken two years later in 1975 when they had yellow tail tips does NOT seem to have the white trim. A couple of grainy b/w photos from 1977 are unclear, but may be redless as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted July 23, 2008 Author Share Posted July 23, 2008 Tough question, that...I'm looking in the C&M book on the Navy Phantoms, and the section for VF-74 is a nice one...the gorgeous one with the big red lightning on the upper fuselage (one of my favs) definitely DOES have the red trim on the doors, and is dated 1973. Then another taken two years later in 1975 when they had yellow tail tips does NOT seem to have the white trim. A couple of grainy b/w photos from 1977 are unclear, but may be redless as well. Thanks guys- I guess the jury is still out. This was probably a time when the red trim was just becoming standard on navy fighters, but it's hit and miss depending on squadron and time period. I think I'll put it on anyway, since you do have a pic that shows it WAS there, at least for awhile. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Huey Gunner Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 I was in VF-194 (F-4J's) from 1976 to 1978. Along with our usual gull grey over white, we also had 3 Ferris paint scheme aircraft. All gear door edges were white. (Just looked up the pictures today) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phantom ordie Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 I spent quite a bit of time underneath Phantoms up until the mid 70's. As I recall it was a safety issue to those who were under during launches. All the pics I have and looking through cruise books the edges of most movable surfaces were red. It could have changed later on. I know most all early birds had the red edges. Can't say where it changed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chuck540z3 Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 I spent quite a bit of time underneath Phantoms up until the mid 70's. As I recall it was a safety issue to those who were under during launches. All the pics I have and looking through cruise books the edges of most movable surfaces were red. It could have changed later on. I know most all early birds had the red edges. Can't say where it changed. Thanks again guys- and this proves why I'm having trouble with what is "correct" for the squadron and time period. I've seen many pics with the red trim and quite a few without, so maybe there is no "wrong" way to paint them. Even if I paint them white, I'll bet 80% of those who look at it will think it's wrong, so to be safe I think I'll still go with the standard red trim. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pigsty Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 I spent quite a bit of time underneath Phantoms up until the mid 70's. As I recall it was a safety issue to those who were under during launches. All the pics I have and looking through cruise books the edges of most movable surfaces were red. It could have changed later on. I know most all early birds had the red edges. Can't say where it changed. Hang on - he says, spotting yet another problem on the way, or another excuse to say "sod it, it'll do" - does that mean the edges of the flaps as well, or just the undercarriage doors? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Huey Gunner Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 I was in VF-194 (F-4J's) from 1976 to 1978. Along with our usual gull grey over white, we also had 3 Ferris paint scheme aircraft. All gear door edges were white. (Just looked up the pictures today)Grrreeeaaattt! I'm replying to myself. Knew I was losing it! Anywho. While the gear doors did not have red trim, the commpression doors and flaps were still red. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Teeradej Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 (edited) for VF-74 is a nice one...the gorgeous one with the big red lightning on the upper fuselage (one of my favs) Was this scheme worn during Vietnam Wartime (Linebacker I & II)? Edited July 25, 2008 by Teeradej Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XPhantomTweet Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Was this scheme worn during Vietnam Wartime (Linebacker I & II)? Well, I was back in civilian life by 1972, but from 67-71 any of those "pinch hazard areas" I saw were red. I'm assuming everyone knows why they were red. (so the blood won't show) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cjcarrad Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 We had 15 new F-4Js arrive at Miramar in the summer of 1967, and the gear door rims were painted with a red stripe on the edge. After a few years with banged up older F-4B's, the factory freshness of a brand new aircraft was highly appreciated. The moving surface safety protocol was red edge or even full red as with deployed trailing edge flaps, or folding outer wing roots. Other areas as well, but the gear doors are the topic here so I'll go to the answer: While the factory doors were rimmed in Red, when new replacement doors were installed, they were delivered aboard ship in zinc chromate (yellow green) primer. In late 60's and early 70's 'nam deployments, when a big F-4J main tire blew, it usually destroyed the compound curved gear door, which then had to be replaced. Each replacement door had to be custom fitted to properly close the gear well, a very time consuming task with the aircraft up on jacks in the hangar deck. Although Phantoms were line assembled, they were still largely hand built, especially the doors and other skin panels. A down gripe F-4J waiting on a gear door fit up was a mission delay, but there were no short cuts to getting a big Phantom off its jacks and back up to the flight deck. Because of the time constraints, a replaced door was not finished in white until there was a breather for painting the door, or if the crud crew had a full repaint scheduled. But replacement doors almost never had red edges painted, that would be a time waster. Very often, replacement gear doors, and other replaced or repaired panels flew in zinc chromate until line maintenance could get around to painting or when the aircraft went to PAR. I imagine the lack of red stripes was a common condition in combat veteran aircraft, and it is entirely likely every F4-J built, that had carrier traps eventually needed at least one blown gear door replaced, except with the Blue Angels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 Regarding the ailerons and flaps, even USAF aircraft came out of the factory with red end caps. I can’t recall a single F-4 not so finished. The same applies to the inner surfaces of speed brakes, their actuators bodies, aux air door, their actuators and the RAT its doors and well. I cant recall one single exception. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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