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Stratospheremodels

1/48th SUKHOI T-4 MACH 3 bomber !! From Stratosphere

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I created and made that kit 13 years ago, it was actually the 6th kit I created. Although I had stopped making that vacform kit a long time ago, I found out I still have ONE LAST SET of that kit plus some extra parts for a 2nd one.

P7290359.jpg

So, if people are interested, I am offering this set for sale, with the following proposition:

I have a set with complete fuselage, “Concorde†nose, a new fin of the proper size, engine bay and internal inlet splitters and ramps, transparent canopy, ejection seats, bulkheads.The wood parts that you see on the photo represent the extra parts I will vacform to complete the set.

When I created the kit in 1995 there were no official blueprints and the aircraft was still classified, so I used photos from various magazines to create a blueprint.

Years later one of my clients in Germany sent me a set of drawings from an Ukrainian magazine (but they were not official drawings and many elements did not match, but it gave me an idea of what I would have to change). Now that real blueprints have been published a few years ago, here is what I will change and include:

1ST OPTION :

**The basic last kit set plus:

**I will provide a fuselage plug to lenghten the fuselage (the real size is about 5 to 6 cm longer then how I built it. Since I still have the masters, it will be easy for me to make a fuselage plug from a fiberglass mold). I will also include an engine bay plug (it will add about 2 or 3 cm to the original part). I no longuer have the master for this engine bay but it will easy for me to make a fiberglass mold for a vacform a plug. I have the masters for the dorsal spines, so I can provide a plug.

**I no longer have the master for the wings so I will make new custom wings out of thick plastic sheet to complete this kit set (I have 1/8th styrene sheets in stock). I will also make new masters for the engine exhausts (to vacform new parts).

**I still have the master for the landing gear and for the wheels I will make new molds and will cast new metal landing gear parts for the kit.

Also, new canards will be included.

**So I am offering for sale the fuselage set you see here and I will make a new custom wing from scratch with thick styrene sheet, new masters for the exhausts, new canards, new molds for the landing gear and metal castings, or... I could include the masters for the landing gear along with the kit (but you would have to make your own molds and castings as metal cast parts would be stronger than the glued metal tubes here), and I will included new fuselage plugs and engine bay plug, everything that you need to have a complete kit.

**I would offer the kit in that form FOR SALE for $800.00.

Just for building the wing, there is a lot of work for me to do, plus making the new molds for landing gear, casting small metal and resin parts and making the new extension plug molds and vacforming.

Since this is the last one set I have and there are no 1/48th scale SUKHOI T-4 SOTKA on the market, this is the only ticket for the SOTKA, guys..!

OR, 2ND OPTION :

**I am offering an all new SUKHOI T-4 SOTKA made of fiberglass ! I still have the master parts for the fuselage and it would be relatively easy for me to make a new master for the engine bay to make new parts (that version would have all scribed panel lines (the vacform version does not have panel lines). I would make a custom handmade wing for the kit which would be made of thick styrene sheet (or maybe cast resin wings) and with new metal cast landing gear and cast wheels.

The model would be offered in kit form for 2000,00$.

You would have yourself a very strong model of the SOTKA since it would be made of fiberglass.

The model would be very limited edition and very rare, since probably only 1 or 2 would be made, worldwide.

The time to make all the new fiberglass molds and fiberglass parts would be a couple months or more (if I work at it full time)(since I work on other projects as well, calculate about double that time for delivery time or more).

OR 3RD OPTION :

I would offer the fiberglass kit version with custom hand made plastic sheet wing fully painted and assembled for 5000.00$.

Please let me know if you are interested, as I want to get that set off my floor or start the new project, but I would be interested to make it into an exciting 1/48th scale fiberglass version if there is public interest, as I would like to revive the aircraft and make it higher quality and with all the external details and scribing.

Stephane.

Website: http://www.picturetrail.com/stratospheremodels

E-mail: stratospheremodels@yahoo.fr

P7290361.jpg

The big Blackbird is there to show scale. Both are at 1/48th.

P7290362.jpg

Edited by Stratospheremodels

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Too rich for my blood.

But very nice X-31 I saw on your page. I just bought the horrendous ATTIC 1/48 X-31 and I was wondering how much yours go for?

Very interested.

How about making an X-32? ATTIC's is absolutely, positively, most definitely, horrendous. ( I also bought that blob of resin)

Man, an X-29 would be nice also!

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Too rich for my blood.

But very nice X-31 I saw on your page. I just bought the horrendous ATTIC 1/48 X-31 and I was wondering how much yours go for?

Very interested.

How about making an X-32? ATTIC's is absolutely, positively, most definitely, horrendous. ( I also bought that blob of resin)

Man, an X-29 would be nice also!

Hi Pookie, nice that you like my X-31 kit ! The kit price is 98.95$.

Now about the X-32 (talking about unpopular aircraft that i happen to love), it might get Zacto posting all kinds of joke pictures, but seriously, i loved the X-32, and several years ago as it was just out the factory, i was preparing a to design a kit of it. Needless to say, the idea got teared to shreds by modellers (on another forum i must say) because they called it the 'ugliest aircraft ever built'.. On a positive note, one of the 2 only supporters, a girl, called it 'so ugly it's cute' (!).

I loved the shape, the wing would have been a challenge to build (lots of very subtle curves), i had done a lot of research about it. I have not tested the waters here because i was burned elsewhere, but i would think i would shoot myself in the foot if i tried making it. I don't know, maybe later i will see.

I have never heard about that company name, i did not even knew anyone else had made a X-31 (a bad one) or even an X-32.. (except for the totally inaccurate Italeri attempt (they made their kit much too early).

Stephane.

Stratosphere Models.

Edited by Stratospheremodels

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P7290363.jpg

These are the parts for the LAST SUKHOI T-4 SOTKA SET I HAVE and which i am offering for sale. The wood parts just represent the extra parts i will vacform to complete the kit. And like i mentionned, i will make a totally custom hand made wing out of thick styrene sheet to make it a complete kit. I am posting the landing gear parts in just a moment.

I will also include fuselage and engine bay plugs to lenghten the model and bring it to its real accurate dimensions (i designed that kit 13 years ago, long before official blueprints became available. When drawings became available the kit was already retired, but i calculated what i would have to add and change to bring it to an accurate standard.

The fin i will most likely replace (it is made of two halves) with a new one piece part made from a single thick sheet of styrene, to make it better and much less prone to warpage.

Most of the parts you see here i can vacform again if needed as i have the masters (the only masters i no longuer have are the engine bay (though i can make a new one quickly) and the wings (the new wing i will make will be much better, and stronger).

P7290364.jpg

Landing gear master parts. I will have to make new molds for these (only if someone wants to buy the kit). I have some wheels left to, but i will need to make new molds for the bigger wheels too.

And two castings for the ejection seats (i still have the master for that one also, so i can make new (pressure cast, polyurethane) castings if needed (those shown here are old polyester ones, but still good).

Stephane.

Stratosphere Models

Website: http://www.picturetrail.com/stratospheremodels

E-mail: stratospheremodels@yahoo.fr

Edited by Stratospheremodels

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800 dollars is also a bit stiff for me. Why not make this a limited run kit so you can sell more copies at a lower price? You might even make more money this way too.

I built the Amodel 1/72 and it's 60 cm in length. A 1/48 beast would be over 1 metre long, COOL!!!

Looking at the parts, I don't see panel lines. Is it because of the lighting or did I miss something?

Cheers,

Terry

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800 dollars is also a bit stiff for me. Why not make this a limited run kit so you can sell more copies at a lower price? You might even make more money this way too.

I built the Amodel 1/72 and it's 60 cm in length. A 1/48 beast would be over 1 metre long, COOL!!!

Looking at the parts, I don't see panel lines. Is it because of the lighting or did I miss something?

Cheers,

Terry

Hi Terry, for 800$ you would get yourself the only game in town, and an all new CUSTOM, HAND MADE wing set (that alone would keep me busy for several weeks..! I don't know if you know how tough it is to sand and shape thick styrene sheet, but the shape is quite more complex than it looks, meaning, i must remove a lot of material to go from that sharp leading edge to that thick middle to that thin trailing edge. And the wing root is thick while the tip of the wing is sharp. That already gives you an idea of the work.. (and lets not even think one second about making it out of thin styrene sheet built over styrene spars, that type of building would be so flimsy and subject to so much warping due to the glues and low strenght of the assembly that it would not last more than a few days..). Not to mention that i must make new molds for the landing gear and wheels, buy metal (there are minimum quantities i must buy or i can't buy any at all (and i use an alloy that is much stronger than pure tin), last time i checked (years ago) it was 75.00$ just for 5 pounds of metal (minimum), without counting shipping cost. In view of the high level metals have reached in recent years, i can expect that price to have doubled, even for recycled BM-41 !

Molds mean i must buy silicone, as well as resin to make new castings, and fiberglass cloth and so on. Once i am through, i will probably have only 200$ worth of profit made on this sale. And i must still vacform other parts, design molds for new fuselage plugs and make fiberglass copies so i can vacform the plugs.. I am not interested to make this a return to vacform.. i got out of it long ago for very obvious reasons (it was not bringing in any money), and i already saw the sales back then for such an aircraft (extremely small, counted on one hand alone). If i make a limited run, it have to bring me a living, so i prefer to make it out of good material and as an extremely limited fiberglass run (since i know only 1 or 2 max will sell). If you want your own model kit designer working for you alone for several weeks, consider 800.00$ to be a very cheap, cheap, cheap rate (and i won't make money).

So the more i think about it, the more i would prefer to sell the fiberglass version rather than only an upgrade to complete this set (for so much work just to scratch build the wing only and all the rest of the work).

Yes you are right, there were no panel lines on the old version, because they were male master parts. At the fineness of the panel lines on the real aircraft, any panel lines scribed on the male masters would have looked like canyons. That`s why i am offering to make a fiberglass version which would have the panel lines finely scribed and bring the highest realism to it. Now if i do this as a one of a kind or two of a kind, i might be scribing the panel lines directly on the final parts (meaning bringing even more value to the final aircraft model kit). I will not try to scribe them on the masters, as those were made out of various kinds of soft wood and other materials. So most certainly, i will have to scribe panel lines on the fiberglass parts i will make from the future fiberglass molds.

Stephane.

Stratosphere Models.

Website: http://www.picturetrail.com/stratospheremodels

E-mail: stratospheremodels@yahoo.fr

Edited by Stratospheremodels

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Hi guys,

please let me know quickly if anyone of you is seriously interested by the Sukhoi T-4.

because i need to know very soon if i can start this 2000$ fiberglass VERY LIMITED kit of the Sotka or not.

If there is interest and someone is ready to make a deposit for it, i can start working on it. If not, i will just bury the project and the parts will just go into the garbage can, like i did with the parts of most of my old vacform kits from 13 years ago recently.

I have to know NOW, because if you love the Sotka, this is the way to get it in 1-48th scale, this will be your ticket.

If not, i don't see anyway it will be done again.

Stephane.

Stratosphere Models.

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OK guys,

i am officially killing the Sukhoi T-4 revival and accurizing project due to lack of public interest.

I guess the masters will go the way of the trash bin in some time in the near future, the same way some other of my old vacform master parts from 13 years ago went since last year. Well, like i had learned back in the 1990`s, Mach 3 and Russian does not equate public interest i guess. I would have thought, given the size of the forum and given that back in 1995 i had only very limited visibility to talk about the older version of my T-4 kit, but i guess i was wrong. The T-4 seems to be a too limited subject. Too bad.. it would have looked really neat as a fully corrected and detailled large size fiberglass 1-48th kit version.

Stephane.

Stratosphere Models.

Hi guys,

please let me know quickly if anyone of you is seriously interested by the Sukhoi T-4.

because i need to know very soon if i can start this 2000$ fiberglass VERY LIMITED kit of the Sotka or not.

If there is interest and someone is ready to make a deposit for it, i can start working on it. If not, i will just bury the project and the parts will just go into the garbage can, like i did with the parts of most of my old vacform kits from 13 years ago recently.

I have to know NOW, because if you love the Sotka, this is the way to get it in 1-48th scale, this will be your ticket.

If not, i don't see anyway it will be done again.

Stephane.

Stratosphere Models.

Edited by Stratospheremodels

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OK guys,

i am officially killing the Sukhoi T-4 revival and accurizing project due to lack of public interest.

I guess the masters will go the way of the trash bin in some time in the near future, the same way some other of my old vacform master parts from 13 years ago went since last year. Well, like i had learned back in the 1990`s, Mach 3 and Russian does not equate public interest i guess. I would have thought, given the size of the forum and given that back in 1995 i had only very limited visibility to talk about the older version of my T-4 kit, but i guess i was wrong. The T-4 seems to be a too limited subject. Too bad.. it would have looked really neat as a fully corrected and detailled large size fiberglass 1-48th kit version.

Stephane.

Stratosphere Models.

Hello Stephane,

I confess I read your post with some amusement. Please don't take this the wrong way but I suspect that the lack of public interest might be less to do with the subject and more to do with the price?

It is my guess that if you were able to offer this subject at an affordable cost, you would probably have had significantly more interest.

What a shame you are n't able to align your prices more with the mainstream. Some of the more esoteric offerings could prove quite popular for modellers desiring that little something different.

Out of curiosity, how many kits do you sell and to what demographic? Do you sell to individuals or is it institutions that buy your products?

Good luck with your future projects though. :coolio:

B)

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There is not going to be much interest in anything that big anyway. I wonder how a 1/144 kit at a reasonable price would sell.

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Sounds to me like yet another case of stolen joy.

I'm afraid I have to say that Stephan, aside from your obvious skill and talent at producing models that are interesting, you have a flair for the dramatic that hasn't been seen, well, since the meteoric descent of another purveyor of fine model accessories.

Was all the emotionalism intended to make us feel bad that we couldn't fork over the cash to buy one of your kits? I don't know anyone who can just touch $800 at a moment's notice. I don't know, perhaps you have millions in the bank and consider $800 a pittance. If that's the case, then I would recommend you hang out here more often and note the threads that talk about the lack of money, the cost of kits and the need to consult with a spouse before spending any money.

Many folks here are hardpressed to come up with $15 for a 1/72 kit. Also there are younger modelers here who either live on an allowance or don't have a "living wage' to speak of and have to ask a parent for a kit as a gift for their birthday or likewise.

I think you are being presumptuous, sir. I think you are also acting like something of a raconteur who when the uneducated masses don't want to listen to your tales of salvation, you are somehow offended that they cannot seem to see how witty and funny your stories are. So you leave town in a huff somehow blaming them.

No, sir. Your kit is quite adequate, your skills, high. Your marketing, on the other hand, leaves something to be desired. Why destroy the masters? Have they done something wrong? Are they the offensive party at which you are angry? Or, why not put them carefully away, so that maybe someday you can use them again instead of claiming somehow that "modelers obviously don't know good when they see it".

In other words, grow up.

Or, have I, by addressing the obvious, been somehow blacklisted now? 'Tis no matter. I cannot afford your kits anyway.

RS

:banana::cheers:

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Would love to bite on that but I need $5000 + another 600 for my Nikon D3. Got some weddings on tap that I need to have a decent DSLR (may have to rent the first couple weddings). So no can do. Nice aircraft though. And I love Russian birds.

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I would think that Moai deserves to be given one, he is our Moai! Or, instead of throwing them in the bin, they could be made a burnt offering for Moai.

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"I guess the masters will go the way of the trash bin in some time in the near future"

:coolio:

:woot.gif: Puh-leeze!

Don't laugh, several did.

I cannnot keep all the old (vacform) masters that were catching dust since 1999 or so, not only due to limited space, but also because some were already deformed by heat due to years of vacforming). Most of the T-4 masters however (except for the wing parts) were not deformed by heat and are still good, thus my previous proposal to revive the kit in a totally different format. I also did throw quite a lot of my old F-106 B resin conversion parts in 1-48th scale (i freely admit that back in 1994, the resin parts i did for that one were pretty primitive compared to what i produce today, but i also got rid of them because the 106 conversion had never been selling more than a handful. I kept the nice vacform canopy and spine parts though (i had many of them) and offered some of them here a year or two ago to those who were interested).

I am sorry you or some others have read me wrongly about what i wrote because the only thing i feel sorry for here is wasting good parts that are still usable for an aircraft i like and which i really wished to revive and make into the accurized model that this aircraft truly deserves. I wish i could bring the project to a new, updated, accurized fiberglass version, but given that it would take MONTHS to make and create, working at it full time (and where would the financing come from "If" i sold even just one of that (very limited, 1 or 2 kits worldwide) if at the end of the months of work nodoby bought the (very costly to create) new kit ? Well, that's why i won't commit to something that costly to create unless there was clear interest from serious buyers.

If someone think even for one second i thought i was "going to get rich" with the T-4, it is completely beside the track, as i know first hand the aircraft if not popular. I would have chosen a giant model of say the Sukhoi 30 or 35 if i wanted to get rich, not the T-4. I just saw those wood master parts that will soon start to rot in their wood box and i hate to see them stay that way and not evolve into a new kit that is accurized (and given the way the parts smell right now, (they are absorbing humidity since well over a decade) i know that sooner or later the wood will start to decay (i would say sooner than later). People who know me closely would also know that i had wasting things (thus my reaction).

So in case you wondered, those are the explanations for my posting.

Some may take their dreams for realities, but be serious please, do you imagine just one second that anyone who makes resin kits could afford to go through a project like that with the potential (i stress the word potential here) of selling only 1 or 2 only worldwide and with the amount of time and expenses involved to sell it at the price of a 15$ kit ? Please, be serious. Nobody is able to do that, and even the (very limited run) injected 1-72nd kit version from Russia sells for over a hundred of dollars a piece (and that's injected.. not custom made fiberglass and resin)(i wonder how many they sold.. probably only a few dozens only).

If you want to make a test and you want to ask for such an aircraft model in that scale to be built for you by say PacMin, just go and ask them the price they will charge you for just one or even half a dozen of them and come back to see me after. Things have a cost, and the price i asked for it i am ready to bet is way below what PacMin would ask you. And you have to make a deposit on it for them to make it for you also. That's what they call business.

Stephane.

Stratosphere Models.

Edited by Stratospheremodels

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Hi, thank you Geedubelyer,

For an answer to your post, please read my earlier post.

I think it would take a long post from me to explain the financial realities involved for resin kit designer and for the production of such kits, but i think if you do a bit of research you will find out that no one creating such kits (largely made by hand, and where each individual part is molded by hand one by one in individual silicone molds) can offer such kits at the same price as injected plastic kits (against whom you well know we cannot compete, given that injection tooling allows them to make thousands of castings in mere hours (as opposed to a few dozens or hundred of kits over years for resin kit makers).

My demographic ? Well, they are all adults (no children have the skills to play with resin kits and the tools needed to assemble them (and neither would i want to see them playing with epoxy glues or razor saws and Dremels and such..). As for your other question concerning production quantities, i am sure that you will understand that this is confidential.

Another word about custom made kits or display models. I happen to have a couple of very large custom made fiberglass models at home. The two are not complete yet, but once painted and fully assembled and equiped with internal lighting, one of them will be offered for 6000.00$. That's a one-of-a-kind folks (and no, it's not the T-4). If some of you know the one-of-a-kind or custom made display model market and if you knew the specific model i am talking about that i will offer for 6000$ once completed, you would realize i will be selling it below market value for a custom made model of similar size and complexity. The custom made model field (which is what the T-4 was here, a giant, fiberglass model project offer) have prices that have nothing in common with (small) production resin kits, due to their limited market, complexity, lenght of time to design, and the spendings involved in creating them. You would be surprised the prices some institutions and companies offer for custom made models (sadly, they don't need T-4s i must say). But that market is also highly competitive, and you'd better be able to produce those models Very fast when they need them (for say an air show). But because those get built usually with costly technologies (read CNC) they have a price tag that goes with it (and the fact they are produced very fast also accounts for the (very) high price tag those companies charge. In comparison, for my handmade custom made giant models, my prices are maybe 3 to 4 times lower than those offered by companies that use CNC for their custom made display models.

Stephane.

Stratosphere Models.

Hello Stephane,

I confess I read your post with some amusement. Please don't take this the wrong way but I suspect that the lack of public interest might be less to do with the subject and more to do with the price?

It is my guess that if you were able to offer this subject at an affordable cost, you would probably have had significantly more interest.

What a shame you are n't able to align your prices more with the mainstream. Some of the more esoteric offerings could prove quite popular for modellers desiring that little something different.

Out of curiosity, how many kits do you sell and to what demographic? Do you sell to individuals or is it institutions that buy your products?

Good luck with your future projects though. :)

:cheers:

Edited by Stratospheremodels

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I'm curious, with this model are you talking about a kit, or a model that you've built/painted/finished? I can imagine and well understand why a finished, prebuilt model would go for so much money, but I can't see spending that much money on a model kit. Not trying to criticize, just genuinely curious.

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I'm curious, with this model are you talking about a kit, or a model that you've built/painted/finished? I can imagine and well understand why a finished, prebuilt model would go for so much money, but I can't see spending that much money on a model kit. Not trying to criticize, just genuinely curious.

Hi illithid,

I offered to make it either in kit form, or fully assembled and painted. In both case the amount of work to redesign the kit and make new parts made of fiberglass and fully detail those parts (scribing them) as well as making basically a one-of-a- kind or two-of-a-kind hand made wing for it (molds for a cast resin wing would be too large to fit in my pressure pot) would have cost me a lot to do. Think about the fact that if i spent two months full time making the new fiberglass version, i must earn two months of revenue to pay the bills. If i manage to sell only one of those custom made fiberglass kit (not the fully painted and assembled version) i am just covering one month of my work and living expenses. If i fully assemble and paint that kit to sell as a display model it i think it would add a few more weeks of work if not a month to bring it to a high level.

Just for to show you an exemple, some of my previous kits master parts for other kits (not aircrafts) took me as much as 6 or 7 months to design (in the case of my biggest kits). If i had originally build them as custom made fiberglass models that i expect would have sold to maybe only 1 or 2 copies worldwide, i would have had to price the final models according to the amount of work i spent full time on the project (in other words, the cost of the project), then, add a profit margin to it. If we look at 7 months of work, we are looking at 5K's figure.

Today i build faster, but still, some projects like those i undertook 10 years ago were pretty much complex, to a level that would be hard to build by hand significantly faster today (unless one used CAD and CNC)(but then the price asked would not be very much lower due to the higher costs involved in acquiring the equipment to accomplish this, it would just be faster and more accurate).

Stephane.

Edited by Stratospheremodels

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Oops... let me correct that,

The A Models (partly injected, and partly made of fiberglass resin actually) very limited model kit of the T-4 Sotka which i mentionned somewhere in my thread is sold way over 100$ per kit, it is more like over 500$ to be exact, way higher than i thought:

http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?AMO-72001

Stephane

Stratosphere Models.

Edited by Stratospheremodels

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Oops... let me correct that,

The A Models (partly injected, and partly made of fiberglass resin actually) very limited model kit of the T-4 Sotka which i mentionned somewhere in my thread is sold way over 100$ per kit, it is more like over 500$ to be exact, way higher than i thought:

http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?AMO-72001

Stephane

Stratosphere Models.

So? Look here:

http://www.aviapress.com/viewonekit.htm?ZVD-7002

80 bucks for 1/144 Tu-160? I have seen it on other american webshops for 19.99...I bought mine for 15-17 in Russia. IMO that shop is WAAAAAAAAAY overpriced. I cant remember have seen Amodel T-4 kit over 200 in webshop before. (not counting ebay)

Go figure.

108 bucks here:

http://www.hobbyterra.com/product.asp?idProduct=190

Edited by Berkut

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