Typhoon

[Colin W]

Hi

I'm just about to decal my Revell Typhoon but the Model Alliance decals I have for 29 SQN are only for 2 seaters. The kit decals are for single seaters but have the IR pod on the port nose which I havn't fitted. So the question is did 29 fly any single seaters without the IR pod and if so what were there serials?

There are lots of pics out there but I cant find one of the port nose of a single seater which is confirmed as 29squ.

Thanks in advance

Colin W

[kstater94]

Being a training squadron, 29 squadron has more two seat Typhoons than single seat.

I think as of right now they have six two seat Typhoons and one single seater Typhoons assigned to them. The one F.2 is ZJ911 (coded BZ)

When I was over there last year I did photograph one of their other single seat F.2s (ZJ920, coded BX) but it is currently at Warton being upgraded to FGR.4 standard.

Hope this helps

Cheers

John

Edited September 11, 2008 by kstater94

[Bobski]

Hi

I'm just about to decal my Revell Typhoon but the Model Alliance decals I have for 29 SQN are only for 2 seaters. The kit decals are for single seaters but have the IR pod on the port nose which I havn't fitted. So the question is did 29 fly any single seaters without the IR pod and if so what were there serials?

There are lots of pics out there but I cant find one of the port nose of a single seater which is confirmed as 29squ.

Thanks in advance

Colin W

All of 29 Sqns Typhoons were initially delivered without the PIRATE sensor on the nose, so the kit decals will be correct. They currently only have one or two with a PIRATE fitted, but it was retro-fitted to the jets rather than being delivered from new and I don't think they have been delivered out of Warton yet. Only a few jets have had it fitted from new and all belong to either 17 Sqn or 11 Sqn.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Bobski

[gary1701]

Hi,

I believe, from memory the single seater's with 29 have gone something roughly like this. ZJ911/BZ, ZJ915/BY, ZJ921/BW and ZJ920/BX were the inital four delivered. all without the IRST fit. Last year they were joined by ZJ910/BV after BAe had finished with trials (lightning?) on this airframe. ZJ915/BY disappeared from flying ops at some point early last year. possibly even 2006 to be used as a hangar queen - a role I think it still performs. ZJ921/BW and ZJ920/BX went back to Warton for block 5 upgrade a while ago, leaving the remaining two as the usual single seaters on the sqn for most of 2007 and 2008 so far. In the last couple of weeks it looks like ZJ910/BV has also gone to Warton for upgrade and ZJ921 has just recently come back from block 5, but has apparently been remarked and coded for 3 Sqn (ZJ921/QO-H), I haven't seen a pic to confirm that though. If all that is accurate, then at the moment ZJ911/BZ is the only single seater in 29 Sqn marks actually operating. Given that the FGR4's - either new builds or upgrades - are going to 11 and now 3 Sqn, I'd guess that it'll be a while before 29 (the OCU) gets any for basic conversion work - they haven't had any to date.

Gary

Edited September 11, 2008 by gary1701

[Colin W]

So basically any current F2 single seater will be OK. This means ZJ920 or ZJ911 will be OK!Sorted

Thanks

But meanwhile ........ I was looking at the stencils and there is a huge difference between those for the Revell kit and those from Model Alliance. Do you know how accurate the kit ones are or should I use Model Alliances?

Thanks

Colin

[Bobski]

So basically any current F2 single seater will be OK. This means ZJ920 or ZJ911 will be OK!Sorted

Thanks

But meanwhile ........ I was looking at the stencils and there is a huge difference between those for the Revell kit and those from Model Alliance. Do you know how accurate the kit ones are or should I use Model Alliances?

Thanks

Colin

Another quick point on 29 Sqn is that they rarely carry stores. You'll have dummy ASRAAMs and dummy AMRAAMs, but that's usually about it. Tanks alternate between wing and centreline.

I believe that ZJ915 was the one that had the prang at Coningsby so it doesn't surprise me it's a hangar queen...

As for decals, there is some debate on this. Personally I would go for the kit decals, as they were done after the Model Alliance decals (and those are for the twin-seater). From comparing them to the jet (I got some funny looks walking around a jet holding the decal sheet in my hand ) I would say that the kit decals are mostly correct, however watch out for the dark grey markings (ie some of the stencils and the serial numbers) - these are a touch dark and will come out a lot more prominently on the model than they would on the real jet.

If I remember rightly, ZJ910 arrived here last week for it's upgrade and is currently having its fuel tanks drained in preparation for it's deep strip...

[Colin W]

Fantastic. Thanks Bobski.

Since I move around a lot I rairly add stores but have added the ASRAAM rails so it looks closer to the EAP which always carried these.

I'm glad I asked before I stuck the ModelAlliance ones on!

Colin

[Colin W]

Well it appears there is more to this than meets the eye.

The numbering system on the Revell decal sheet is totally wrong! For example the diamond shaped air exhaust on the fin is marked as decal 23 on the instructions, but decal 23 is a piece of bilingual German and English text. The correct decal is number 67 or 68 (port and stbd). Likewise decal 66 clearly says "Danger Airbrake" but has no location on the diagram near the Airbrake. The location which looks right is marked as 21. Decal 21 is way too small for me to read but doesnt look like anything to do with an airbrake.

There are a few others which are obviously wrong but are less obvious and so my confidence is low as to the accuracy of the whole sheet.

I see a few of these Revell tornados have been built so have i got some wierd instructions or did someone figure out what to do.?

Thanks

Colin

[Bobski]

Well it appears there is more to this than meets the eye.

The numbering system on the Revell decal sheet is totally wrong! For example the diamond shaped air exhaust on the fin is marked as decal 23 on the instructions, but decal 23 is a piece of bilingual German and English text. The correct decal is number 67 or 68 (port and stbd). Likewise decal 66 clearly says "Danger Airbrake" but has no location on the diagram near the Airbrake. The location which looks right is marked as 21. Decal 21 is way too small for me to read but doesnt look like anything to do with an airbrake.

There are a few others which are obviously wrong but are less obvious and so my confidence is low as to the accuracy of the whole sheet.

I see a few of these Revell tornados have been built so have i got some wierd instructions or did someone figure out what to do.?

Thanks

Colin

I think it's a problem with the instructions - I had some similar problems, but you can usually guess your way around the important ones - the 'Danger - Airbrake' stencil is the right one for the one marked as decal 21. When I built mine I binned a lot of the stencils because the instructions were irritating me, but that's just my impatience. Look carefully at the decal and the instructions to find the location and try to ignore the numbers!

If you can find someone to scan the decals and instruction sheet for the 1/72 scale single seater, they are correct and should be able to be used as a guide as the sheets are very similar.

As for the ASRAAM rails and the far outboard pylons, they are actually permanently fitted to the aircraft. The rail has a chaff dispenser fitted to the back that is part of the DASS system. It's one to watch out for if anyone plans on doing a QRA bird. The rails themselves are very similar for the two outer pylons, so you can adapt a spare set of outer rails, but if you're fitting the inner rail you need to modify the rear end of it as this rail does not have the chaff dispenser.

[gary1701]

Hi again,

Bob, the aircraft that had the nose wheel collapse at Coningsby was T1 ZJ810/BI - back in January 2006. The aircraft has still not been repaired and the locals say it still sits in the 29 Sqn hangar, presumably also being used as a spares source. It's supposedly been due to fly again a number of times this year but so far no such luck. F2 ZJ915/BY was a active aircraft when first delivered before falling into disuse as a spares source, same as ZJ925/QO-R and FGR4 ZJ940, which was delivered from Warton and was stored straight away without being issued to a sqn. Other recent changes include a pair of former 17 Sqn jets; ZJ927/AG and ZJ928/AF have gone to 3 Sqn as QO-M and QO-N. although they apparently haven't flown yet in the new markings.

Gary

[Bobski]

Hi again,

Bob, the aircraft that had the nose wheel collapse at Coningsby was T1 ZJ810/BI - back in January 2006. The aircraft has still not been repaired and the locals say it still sits in the 29 Sqn hangar, presumably also being used as a spares source. It's supposedly been due to fly again a number of times this year but so far no such luck. F2 ZJ915/BY was a active aircraft when first delivered before falling into disuse as a spares source, same as ZJ925/QO-R and FGR4 ZJ940, which was delivered from Warton and was stored straight away without being issued to a sqn. Other recent changes include a pair of former 17 Sqn jets; ZJ927/AG and ZJ928/AF have gone to 3 Sqn as QO-M and QO-N. although they apparently haven't flown yet in the new markings.

Gary

Ah, that's right - I knew there was a single-seat prang and a twin-seat prang. I was getting muddled with the one that got pranged in the US (ZJ943 I believe).

ZJ940 going straight into store explains a lot - like why the only photos of it kicking about seem to be of the jet in primer at Warton. As far as I am aware, ZJ810 is due to be repaired and flown, but I don't know about ZJ943.

I know there's a lot of re-jigging of serial numbers going on at the moment. A lot of the new Block 5 jets coming out of upgrade at Warton will be rotated into frontline units while the F.2s will rotate into 29 Sqn and then upgrade. Some of the jets will be moving out of 17 Sqn too shortly, to make room for the first Tranche 2 jets. I believe 17 Sqn are due to get them when they get their EIS clearance.

[gary1701]

Bob,

Thanks, interesting stuff. I need some new markings jets to photograph in next month or so if and when I can get up to Coningsby. I've heard that the jet pranged in the US (ZJ943/DK) has still not been returned and I haven't heard what CAT damage it is, which will obviously decide if it will be repaired or not. Although given the lack of urgency with the earlier accident repair even if they did it probably would not reappear for ages! When 17 got their full complement of block 5 jets a while ago (3x FGR4 and one T3), I expected further deliveries to go to 11 Sqn, given they were the lead air-to-ground outfit and they still only had half a sqn of FGR4s - made even worse by the loss of one in the US. Yet the last two back (ZJ917/QO-G and ZJ921/BW to QO-H) have gone to 3 Sqn, and I've seen the first one flying with that unit. Even one of 3 Sqn's F2s has been transferred to 11 Sqn (ZJ929/QO-A to DL), which seems very peculiar given the priorities that both units have.

One thing I've heard which I was suprised about was that the inital RAF Tranche 2 jets (block 8 I believe) will not carry over the air-to-ground capabilty from the previous block 5 configuration, and will, at least in the short term, revert back to a pure air-to-air role only. I'm not sure if that is accurate or not because it makes no sense to me whatsoever as it will probably make the jets surplus to requirements when they are delivered - I believe the first two have already conducted their first flights at Warton. Understand if you can't comment on that but am just personally quite curious about that.

Gary

[Andre]

If you can find someone to scan the decals and instruction sheet for the 1/72 scale single seater, they are correct and should be able to be used as a guide as the sheets are very similar.

You can get these instructions from Revells site.

HTH,

Andre

[Bobski]

You can get these instructions from Revells site.

HTH,

Andre

That's cool. You'll still need a scan of the decal sheet though, as the numbers are different to the 1/48 kit.

Bob,

Thanks, interesting stuff. I need some new markings jets to photograph in next month or so if and when I can get up to Coningsby. I've heard that the jet pranged in the US (ZJ943/DK) has still not been returned and I haven't heard what CAT damage it is, which will obviously decide if it will be repaired or not. Although given the lack of urgency with the earlier accident repair even if they did it probably would not reappear for ages! When 17 got their full complement of block 5 jets a while ago (3x FGR4 and one T3), I expected further deliveries to go to 11 Sqn, given they were the lead air-to-ground outfit and they still only had half a sqn of FGR4s - made even worse by the loss of one in the US. Yet the last two back (ZJ917/QO-G and ZJ921/BW to QO-H) have gone to 3 Sqn, and I've seen the first one flying with that unit. Even one of 3 Sqn's F2s has been transferred to 11 Sqn (ZJ929/QO-A to DL), which seems very peculiar given the priorities that both units have.

One thing I've heard which I was suprised about was that the inital RAF Tranche 2 jets (block 8 I believe) will not carry over the air-to-ground capabilty from the previous block 5 configuration, and will, at least in the short term, revert back to a pure air-to-air role only. I'm not sure if that is accurate or not because it makes no sense to me whatsoever as it will probably make the jets surplus to requirements when they are delivered - I believe the first two have already conducted their first flights at Warton. Understand if you can't comment on that but am just personally quite curious about that.

Gary

ZJ943 is still being assessed, so I can't comment on that. I do know it was damaged pretty badly.

There are currently a shedload of F.2s and T.1s at Warton getting their Block 5 upgrade. These come from various squadrons, but my understanding is that where they go when they are complete depends on operational need. Latest to arrive is ZJ920/BX from 29 Sqn. The number of jets in for upgrade at the moment means that there is a lot of rotation going on. It's a good job those squadron markings are all vinyl decals and not painted on!

The first 3 RAF Trance 2 jets have flown. BS039/ZJ946 was the first on August 6th (I got very wet standing out in the pouring rain watching it), followed by BS040/ZJ947 and BS038/ZJ945. Some photos below (all credit, copyright and kudos to Neil Bury for posting them on Airliners.net).

BS039/ZJ946

BS040/ZJ947

I've also seen the first Saudi jet waiting in assembly for its ground runs. BS042/CS001/ZK060 if anyone is interested. Other than the serial number, all markings are the same as the regular UK jets in primer.

Regarding Block 5 versus Block 8 capabilities, I'm afraid I can't discuss that.

Edited September 13, 2008 by Bobski