AIRFIX ARE DOING A 1/48 VULCAN!!?!?!!??!!?

[chek]

From a sales point of view, very few average modellers will have the available space to put, let alone display, a built up Vulcan in that scale.

Maybe a couple of hundred at most, imho.

It would make more sense to retool the 1/72 Vulcan to modern Tamiya-type standards, perhaps with B1 options included and be the

only game in town for a generation or two.

Paired with the whispered about Valiant to the same standard, of course.

[domvickery]

From a sales point of view, very few average modellers will have the available space to put, let alone display, a built up Vulcan in that scale.

Maybe a couple of hundred at most, imho.

It would make more sense to retool the 1/72 Vulcan to modern Tamiya-type standards, perhaps with B1 options included and be the

only game in town for a generation or two.

Paired with the whispered about Valiant to the same standard, of course.

I was going to suggest the same thing forget 48th wayyy to big just re-tool and correct the inaccuracies of the 72nd kit much more appeal

[Chox]

You can safely forget any notion of tooling up to Tamiya's standards!

I quite agree - an updated 72nd Vulcan would be a much better idea. Nice new engraved surface detail, undercarriage bay interiors, maybe a bomb bay interior too, and of course some better 300-series jet pipes or even better, 200-series jet pipes. Could even include a WE.177 or a Yellow Sun - would make a really nice kit. Including parts for a B1 might be pushing it though - you'd need new wing leading edges, vortex generators, new trailing edge control surfaces, new nose gear, new jet pipes and a new tail cone (unless it was a B1A)...

Edited November 16, 2008 by Chox

[tony.t]

As for the Vulcan, it's one of those subjects that would delight me, but you don't need many brain cells to work-out how the actual sales wouldn't be all that great. Apart from the keen folks like us, you can't imagine that there is much casual sales potential in a huge kit like that, costing gawd-knows how much. I guess it might have some mileage as a limited edition or something, but I dunno. You have to wonder just how popular the big Mossie will actually be, despite all the die-hard WWII fans getting excited about it. I mean, no matter how much you might like a subject, that's gonna be an awful lot of plastic to accommodate and pay for!

Some people will buy two, but A LOT more people will buy one, as it has a/ collectors', b/ gift and c/ die-hard/hard sell collector/ build factors.

I think you're entirely wrong looking back to a 1/72 heritage which is obsolete, and Airfix are obviously struggling with a policy which you've made abundantly clear is woefully out of date,

Look at aftermarket decal manufacturers for market indicators - wake up

Tony T

Edited November 16, 2008 by tony.t

[Chox]

Not quite sure where you get that idea from! Maybe you should have mentioned that theory while you were stood in front of the new Airfix 72nd scale Canberra B(I)8, Canberra PR9 and Hawk at Telford this weekend?!

Decal manufacturers are hardly "market indicators" - they merely provide accessories for whatever the kit manufacturers choose to produce. Truth is that 48th scale is no more popular than 72nd scale - just depends on the subject, your age, where you live etc. As far as I can determine, there is no great "policy" with Airfix other than trying to cater for what they think people want to buy. They have a pretty good grasp of what people's tastes are, excluding our own bizarre fetishes. Bear in mind that aircraft only make up maybe sixty percent of their kit range and sales.

You can't be sure that 48th scale is going to be any more popular than 72nd. Look at the Lightnings. I remember discussing this with a major national retailer and how he piled the kits on the shelves in response to all the enquiries they'd had. And then they just sat there for a long time. Look at the 72nd TSR2 - Airfix say they could have easily sold twice as many than were produced. Modellers are fickle creatures!

Edited November 17, 2008 by Chox

[tony.t]

I wish Airfix every success.

I grew up building them in the 1960s-1970s when I was a kid, before switching to 1/48, and later 1/32, and Airfix engendered a love of aircraft and model-making which endures.

But look at the statements from people like Afterburner decals.

I sincerely hope that you are right; I will reserve judgement.

Tony T

Edited November 17, 2008 by tony.t

[Chox]

Think maybe your answer's in the company you mention. You have to bear in mind that it's an American company so you'd expect them to be looking at things from an American perspective, whereas Airfix is a British and multi-national concern in terms of sales. The notion that 48th scale has to be more popular than 72nd scale is a very American concept and one which is certainly gaining ground elsewhere, but lots of people (particularly older modellers and British modellers) still need to be convinced. Actually I don't think anyone needs convincing either way - there's plenty of opportunity to explore every major scale depending on the subject, its size, what kits have been produced before, and so on.

Personally, I don't think there are any obvious rules or lessons. The way that kits sell always seems to be very subjective and depends on a whole lot of factors. Like I said before, I'd gleefully buy a 48th Vulcan or probably way more than just one, but I can't see it selling all that well in overall terms. Look at the Nimrod - okay, it hasn't got the Vulcan's "glamour" factor but even so, people were almost expiring with excitement and yet it evidently didn't sell all that well. Conversely, they sit on a TSR2 kit for years and years, and when they finally produce it, the kit (of a one-off prototype of an exclusively British subject) sells-out immediately. I think anyone who puts significant amounts of money into new kit subjects must be either very brave or slightly crazy!

Edited November 17, 2008 by Chox

[tony.t]

I wish Airfix every success.

I sincerely hope that you are right; I will reserve judgement.

Tony T

I'm not knocking anything; I just feel that that there is a big market for a big Vulcan, and that was the thrust of the argument before my brain cell count was raised in in some shallow ad hominem retort.

Vulcan needs to be viewed, IMHO, as a long-term 'gold page' in the portfolio, which can exercise muscle over a decade or more.

As for size, it wouldn't actually be that big - certainly smaller than the 1/24 Mosquito, Revell 1/32 Ju-88 etc. Where are people supposed to build and display those kits?

I am merely curious, above all else

Tony T

Edited November 17, 2008 by tony.t

[Chox]

Well according to my thumbnail calculations it would have a wing span roughly six inches greater than a 32nd Mosquito so it's a pretty big piece of plastic. It didn't seem quite so big when I used to grapple with the Aeroclub kit (which I eventualy sold!) but then I think maybe it's just that people imagine the Mosquito is gonna be bigger than it actually is, I dunno. But regardless of precise dimensions, both the big Mossie and a 48th Vulcan are certainly big, and that's the basic problem - like you say, where the hell do you put even one, and how much is it gonna cost? I accept that the Mossie has got lots of widespread appeal so I'm sure it will sell pretty well but much as I love the Vulcan, I have a sneaking suspicion that it wouldn't do quite so well in much the same way as the Lightning kits - everybody thinks they're fantastic but they don't actually buy all that many!

But who knows - I'd sure be very happy to see a big Vulcan kit, just like I'd love to see the 72nd kit improved. Then again I'd also love to see a really good 144th kit of the Vulcan too. Hmm, mental images of Vulcan dioramas, Operational Readiness Platforms, all those lovely unit markings...

[JasonW]

Where on earth would you put a 1/48 Vulcan? You plan on building a hanger in your backyard? ;)

[Jay Chladek]

Well, to put a 1/48 Vulcan in perspective, it won't be as big as a 1/48 Revell B-1B. So even I could manage to get one. I do hope they potentially proceed with it as Airfix can do a great job with it since both properties are uniquely British. As for the Nimrod, I am not surprised it was a slow seller since we are talking about a plane that isn't exactly sexy. It is a kind of bulgy looking thing that is based on a passenger jet which is older then the 707! Such subjects don't get the demand of the fighters, bombers and things that capture the imagination like the TSR.2 (because it got axed before it could show its true potential). But I am glad Airfix did press ahead with it as before it was announced, I would say the chances for a 1/72 injection tool Nimrod were less then for a new tool 1/72 P-3 Orion. Compare sales of the Nimrod with that of the Revell of Germany Atlantique and I imagine both kits weren't exactly stellar sellers.

Main reason a Yank like me purchased the Nimrod is the RAF brought them over to the Offutt AFB airshow a couple times and did a flying display with one. If I hadn't seen one up close, I am not entirely sure I would have bought the one I did get. If my finances improve I plan to acquire a second one so I can do one as a normal sub hunter and the second one as an R.1 to compliment my AMT/Ertl RC-135 Rivet Joint (and a second Rivet Joint is stashed to build up as an RAF bird if these do indeed get acquired to replace the R.1s in SIGINT and COMINT duties). Eventually, all the Nimrods in the pipeline will sell though and as such it seems Airfix made the right call doing the kit up as a limited numbers offering.

[Flankerman]

Look at the 72nd TSR2 - Airfix say they could have easily sold twice as many than were produced.

Which begs the question ...... so why didn't they (produce more, that is...???)

Unless they have a 'keep them wanting' policy like Disney with their DVD's ?

Ken

[Chox]

because it was before Hornby fully took over it seems.

Edited November 17, 2008 by Chox

[Edgar]

Which begs the question ...... so why didn't they (produce more, that is...???)

Unless they have a 'keep them wanting' policy like Disney with their DVD's ?

Ken

Airfix produced the TSR2 to the numbers ordered by the trade, who were warned that this was the policy for the kit. The trade badly underestimated the public's response, but Airfix continue to get the flak for the eventual shortfall. The trade overestimated the response for the Nimrod, but that's O.K., since it's the shopkeepers who're stuck with the stock.

Edgar

[Jonathan Mock]

Airfix produced the TSR2 to the numbers ordered by the trade, who were warned that this was the policy for the kit. The trade badly underestimated the public's response, but Airfix continue to get the flak for the eventual shortfall. The trade overestimated the response for the Nimrod, but that's O.K., since it's the shopkeepers who're stuck with the stock.

Edgar

Yup, unlike the old days when Humbrol had millions of quid of overstock gathering dust up at Marfleet, Hornby has sold all its Nimrods.

[Patrick_Nevin]

[snip] You have to wonder just how popular the big Mossie will actually be, despite all the die-hard WWII fans getting excited about it. I mean, no matter how much you might like a subject, that's gonna be an awful lot of plastic to accommodate and pay for!

I've thought about the Mosquito, after chatting to one of the Airfix gents about it. I really hope it works for them, and I might buy one myself on general principle, but it's on pretty murky ground IMHO.

The subject is a good one, but the price puts it up against the likes of theBrinzan Blitz (ob jet ref), which with the best will in the world is going to be hard competition in terms of detail. Or, for that matter, for the same money one could procure *three* Revell 88's (one gathers both Revell and various aftermarket companies are going to have a field day, with that wise choice. )

Which (though I've got a lot of time for Airfix) brings me to wondering if they've ever considered rebuilding their fortunes in a slightly easier way. They have a number of quite accurate, respected and unique moulds in 72, 48, 24th etc. Were they to enter into a partnership with, say a suitable resin and etch producer I believe they'd be able to put out upgraded versions of these subjects with a low additional tooling (and hence product) cost. You only have to see Revell's business model with the 88 to realise the critical importance of the last.

I would argue that the success of the aftermarket industry and possible aging of the profile of modellers gives us an overall push towards higher detail. This is a seller. I am sure I am not the only ARC member with both mixed-media kits and packages of kit + resin + etch + high-quality decals lying around. Although discovering exotic cabals of excellence to supply these bits is an entertaining pursuit in itself, I suspect entering a partnership agreement with suitable producers would enable Airfix to capitalise on their existing assets without as much danger as some of the solutions proposed in this thread.

After they get rich, mind, bash on with anything they want. I'd like a 219 myself - but I think 24th would be too small

Patrick

[Stephen]

Here are a couple of shots of the Vulcan on the Airfix stand.

Stephen

[B-1 Nut]

Now THAT is cool.

Glad to see people are thinking out of the box and giving us some cool new kits.

Now if I can just talk someone into doing a 1/48 AH-56.

[GCA333]

YES!!!

[Chox]

They're already kinda doing that Patrick - hence the forthcoming Eduard Lightning and Jaguar which (like the recently-issued Mirage 2000) are Airfix kits.

[tony.t]

Well according to my thumbnail calculations it would have a wing span roughly six inches greater than a 32nd Mosquito so it's a pretty big piece of plastic. It didn't seem quite so big when I used to grapple with the Aeroclub kit (which I eventualy sold!) but then I think maybe it's just that people imagine the Mosquito is gonna be bigger than it actually is, I dunno. But regardless of precise dimensions, both the big Mossie and a 48th Vulcan are certainly big, and that's the basic problem - like you say, where the hell do you put even one, and how much is it gonna cost? I accept that the Mossie has got lots of widespread appeal so I'm sure it will sell pretty well but much as I love the Vulcan, I have a sneaking suspicion that it wouldn't do quite so well in much the same way as the Lightning kits - everybody thinks they're fantastic but they don't actually buy all that many!

But who knows - I'd sure be very happy to see a big Vulcan kit, just like I'd love to see the 72nd kit improved. Then again I'd also love to see a really good 144th kit of the Vulcan too. Hmm, mental images of Vulcan dioramas, Operational Readiness Platforms, all those lovely unit markings...

I had an Aeroclub 1/48 Vulcan which I sold to a well-known Brit modeller flying for Emirate Airlines for what I originally paid several years earlier on the basis he would build it - just wanted to see it made by an expert modeller at a time, when I was in the process of moving twice in a year and a had a gut feeling an injection-moulded version would come along within a decade.

My recollection of the parts in the box was that is was very buildable in terms of overall size, and not substantially bigger in terms of ‘footprint’ than the 1/32 metal Mossie I have sitting comfortably at 45 degrees angle within an Ikea 50cm or so deep Ivar shelving system (which allows for bigger models poking out a bit at the wingtip etc, and three 1/32 scale jets per shelf if the wings are folded).

1/48 is only half as big again as 1/72 - it’s not colossal, and we’re not talking about a B-52-sized aircraft with the Vulcan. The difference is that it’s not only the Brits who enthuse about the mighty delta; I recall the American B-52 personnel at the IAT saying, on seeing XH558 flying all those years ago, ‘that if we had those we would have kept them flying’. It’s shape captures everyone’s imagination.

I think Alan Hall (RIP) hit it on the head twenty years ago when he said in SAM that the American market is dominated by 1/48 scale and bigger because model-makers usually take over the basement in a house. Things have moved on in the UK, too, with model-making dominating baby boom demographics and many in that category have a dedicated study and can use the garage for airbrushing.

Anyway, if Airfix make a 1/48 scale B.2 they can put me down for two, and they can add a K.2 Victor to the ‘what if?’ list also!

[fulcrum1]

Have the old MRC kit in 1/72 and I'll be getting this one in 1/48th! Probably have to buy a few Sea Harriers so they can fly in formation on my ceiling. My wife will not be pleased.........

[Chox]

Agreed Tony, the Aeroclub kit didn't seem to be all that big when you assembled it. But then I guess the size issue is kinda subjective, depending on how much space you've got. I'd love to get my hands on an Airfix 48th Vulcan, so if Airfix ultimately decide to actually do it, I'd be very happy! But as I said previously, I'd be just as happy if they'd update the 72nd kit to be honest!

Edited November 19, 2008 by Chox

[madmanrick]

They're already kinda doing that Patrick - hence the forthcoming Eduard Lightning and Jaguar which (like the recently-issued Mirage 2000) are Airfix kits.

If I read you correctly, Eduard is going to reissue the 1/48 Airfix Lightning? Any idea when this will take place? I'd like at least 2, along with a T.4/T.5 conversion kit! I hope thay are going to reissue the earlier versions, as I have an F.3/F.6 now.

As far as Airfix doing a 1/48 Vulcan, I've actually considered buying the Sanger vac, despite knowing that it would be one heckuva hard time to coax a decent model out of it. So I would absolutely be interested in an injection version!

Edited November 29, 2008 by madmanrick

[GCA333]

Is the Sanger one bad?

I have heard they aren't great, but not horrible.

If its the only game in town, I guess you have to do it. (I can't wait for their 1/48 Victor, Valiant and 707!)

Edited November 29, 2008 by GCA333