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Mitsubishi Zero A6M2a Type 11


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The many sensei have repeatedly stated that the Hairyokushoku (literally "gray-green") is the Zero color for A6M1 to A6M3 model 22 (and the Nakajima A6M2 and A6M2-N production)....and I continue to hold the course. Admittedly, I once questioned these Japanese sensei/teachers...yet the insistance of Hairyokushoku gray-green continues.

It's rather irresponsible for a former student to continue spreading unconfirmed information and consequently maintain confusion within modeling community, isn't it?

David,

I'm in agreement how the paint is CALLED, by sensei or anybody else, since it's known that at certain points of this paint's "life" (weathered, different batches...) it DID look greenish. BUT it was a paint from family of GRAYS i.e. primarily mixed from black and white, and you said it many times yourself.

M-series paint in Kaki 117 are based on GREENS and besides we still do NOT know HOW the paint nomenclature really worked i.e. which exact paints were chosen by IJNAF Hdq.

That's why I call it irresponsible to state that "hairyokushoku" (whichever it was) was M0/M1. We (at least in the West) have no proof of it.

If Japanese sensei know this for FACT why don't they share?

Cheers,

Mario

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Aloha Mario Soul,

The "Hai Iro" (Gray color) on the undersurface of the Imperial War Museum's Nakajima A6M5 matches with the "Hai Iro" (Gray Color) on the undersurface of the Nimitz Museum's N1K1 and is GRAY. It is made from a black and a white. There is no GREEN within that paint.

HOWEVER, the Hairyokushoku[(literally "gray-GREEN") used on the ZERO has a major GREEN component for which the color name origiinates.

There is no GREEN in the "Hai Iro" (Gray Color) swatches yet the Mitsubishi A6M1 to A6M3 model 22 and Nakajima A6M2 and A6M2-N has that GREEN in daylight conditions...for which the modelers hope to replicate.

Listeners: Send me an e-mail address to PearlHarborHistory AT Hotmail DOT Com for sample scans of what is cited above.

Also view such samples of "Hai Iro" at:

IWM: http://japaneseaircraft.multiply.com/photos/album/2/Color_samples#photo=60

Nimitz: http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/message/1298525200/N1K1+Kyofu+REX+and+the+use+of+J3+GRAY

Cheers,

David Aiken, student of many sensei

Edited by David_Aiken
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  • 2 months later...
  • 1 month later...

My 24 page e-guide to painting the early Zero has been available since 26 October:-

http://www.straggleresearch.com/2011/10/painting-early-zero-sen-pdf-e-guide.html

This is based on a long term examination and analysis of several extant paint samples from early A6M2 aircraft, (e.g. B11-124 s/n 5349) including the identification of original constituent materials and pigments - the predictable building blocks of colour from a scientific perspective - together with an objective, quantified comparison to some well known hobby paints. The findings are consistent with those of at least five well-respected, international researchers who have also examined actual examples of paint.

Refusing to believe these findings or to continue to believe in colours based on descriptions, individual perceptions or scanned images of paint does not invalidate them. There are only two known officially documented references to the paint colour and neither of them uses the term "Hairyokushoku" (ash or grey green colour) but the paint colour could be described as "grey green" and often is.

The paint applied was a neutral grey with yellow-pigmented anti-corrosive additives similar to the Luftwaffe RLM 02. The "greenish" appearance arises from the interaction of the basic black and yellow pigments and is highly metamerismic. The limitations of localised paint chemistry and industry in Japan at the time resulted in variance around the degree of yellow - or amber - hue in the applied paint. The original appearance of the paint (replicated in our analysis) is exactly consistent with the description "J3 (Haiiro ash or gray colour) leaning slightly toward amber colour (Ameiro - caramel or candy colour)" contained within the Yokosuka Kaigun Kokutai (KuGiSho) Report No.0266 of March 1942.

I will be publishing the trace shift of the original paint through oxidisation and chalking, together with the trace shift of preserved paint through thermal ageing in due course. And I will also be making available in the new year decent sized paint swatch samples of the replicated original paint to all those who have copies of the e-guide (at no additional cost).

Edited by Nick Millman
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  • 1 month later...

Can highly highly recommend Nicks paper on the Zero.

Very educational and well worth the dollars as an expressway to having some idea.

Great production..

Hi everybody...

I can only second that, I got Nick's paper this morning and have been reading in it ever since...I have to admit it's still a bit "Chinese" to me but by the time I will dog into my 32scale A6M2 from Tamiya I hope to be able to hit the color as good as possible...

thanks a lot

Uwe

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Literally "Hairyokushoku" means "gray-green".

Note where this color is cited in the IJN "family" of colors:

The Japanese Navy color terms used in WWII are:

A - Kasshoku (browns)

B - Aka iro (reds)

C - Ki iro (yellows)

D - Midori iro (greens)

E - Ao iro (blues)

F - Ai iro (indigos)

G - Sumire iro (violets)

H - Cha iro (browns)

I - Tsuchi iro (earth, mud)

J - Hai iro (grays)

K - Kaiseishoku(gray-blues)

L - Nezumi iro (grays, "Rats-color")

M - Hairyokushoku (gray-green)

N - Azuki iro (browns, refers to a brown bean)

O - Shiro iro (whites)

P - Gin iro (silvers)

Q - Kuro iro (blacks)

The Hess-Ives Color System of the late 1930s was embraced by Japan's military. Recent Japanese research, led by R. Watanabe and K. Owaki, have located the rough handwritten Imperial Japanese ARMY (IJA) document with the RGB values in use.

The same team has located the November 1938 Imperial Japanese NAVY (IJN) document [April 1942 revision] Temporary Specification No.117 Additional Volume swatch book:

My link

My link

Many researchers have taken up the color study, including our own Nick Millman. One major shock was that the Hess-Ives RGB values given in that IJA document were NOT the same values as the CURRENT Hess-Ives Color System. Posted in Feb 2006 is the IJA document RGB numbers into 'swatches', as given in the current RGB system...and many of the colors are NOT within the known IJA colors:

My link

The 'Hairyokushoku' color term is cited in both documents. On the one hand we have the IJN swatch and on the other we have the late 1930s vintage IJA "RGB" numbers. Both documents reveal colors which perhaps may be within the RANGE of each other and perhaps in the same RANGE of sample relics.

What is sought is the STANDARD and the deviation (or RANGE) of each color. While we know the STANDARD by the IJN swatch...what is the RANGE of tolerance in manufacture and the what is the RANGE of change in 'combat use'.

It is quite within logic that both services ordered the same 'hairyokushoku' color from the same manufacturer and gotten the same color mixed to the same swatch and still had slightly different colors because of the BATCH differences...yet the historical problem still exists to determine what was the STANDARD RGB value for the IJN swatch and what sort of SWATCH is meant by the IJA RGB document...

Nick Millman has studied hard and may have been able to juggle the Hess-Ives numbers of the late 1930s into today's system. The Japanese team members are also seeking to resolve that problem. We are listening with great patience.

For the color confused:

Send an e-mail address to PearlHarborHistory AT Hotmail DOT Com

for a scan of a Mitsubishi A6M2 relic, a Nakajima A6M2-N relic, and an A6M3 model 22 relic: all 'hairyokushoku'.

Cheers,

David Aiken

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  • 1 month later...

I'm assuming you mean A6M2 Model 11. The "a" in A6M2a tells me it's a model 11, the additional information (i.e. Type 11) is not required. The proper color is Japanese interior green. White Ensign Models carries the interior colors in their colourcoat line. Mitsubishi built all the Model 11's and their standard practice was to paint the interior of the wheel wells and gear covers the same as the underside of the aircraft.

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  • 5 months later...

Same model, same camera, same time. Two photos. First one is with flash. Second one, no flash.

Flash

zero016.jpg

No flash.

zero017.jpg

Now I'd like to argue over which color is correct for a few years because I am an insane person. :sarcasm_on:

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  • 2 weeks later...

I did take it outside. The moon was in the seventh house, and Jupiter was aligned with Mars, and suddenly peace seemed to guide the planets, and I saw the true color of the Japanese Zero as it appeared during the attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941. Too bad you guys weren't there to see it. Of course, I couldn't take a photo. That would have proven nothing, due to differences in monitors and merrimacs, and stuff. But I SAW IT. For a moment. For one brief shining moment...

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  • 1 month later...

My 24 page e-guide to painting the early Zero has been available since 26 October:-

http://www.straggleresearch.com/2011/10/painting-early-zero-sen-pdf-e-guide.html

This is based on a long term examination and analysis of several extant paint samples from early A6M2 aircraft, (e.g. B11-124 s/n 5349) including the identification of original constituent materials and pigments - the predictable building blocks of colour from a scientific perspective - together with an objective, quantified comparison to some well known hobby paints. The findings are consistent with those of at least five well-respected, international researchers who have also examined actual examples of paint.

Refusing to believe these findings or to continue to believe in colours based on descriptions, individual perceptions or scanned images of paint does not invalidate them. There are only two known officially documented references to the paint colour and neither of them uses the term "Hairyokushoku" (ash or grey green colour) but the paint colour could be described as "grey green" and often is.

The paint applied was a neutral grey with yellow-pigmented anti-corrosive additives similar to the Luftwaffe RLM 02. The "greenish" appearance arises from the interaction of the basic black and yellow pigments and is highly metamerismic. The limitations of localised paint chemistry and industry in Japan at the time resulted in variance around the degree of yellow - or amber - hue in the applied paint. The original appearance of the paint (replicated in our analysis) is exactly consistent with the description "J3 (Haiiro ash or gray colour) leaning slightly toward amber colour (Ameiro - caramel or candy colour)" contained within the Yokosuka Kaigun Kokutai (KuGiSho) Report No.0266 of March 1942.

I will be publishing the trace shift of the original paint through oxidisation and chalking, together with the trace shift of preserved paint through thermal ageing in due course. And I will also be making available in the new year decent sized paint swatch samples of the replicated original paint to all those who have copies of the e-guide (at no additional cost).

Your link is dead. Do you have another link to it?

Larry

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  • 2 months later...

Having Nick Millman and David Aiken weigh in on this subject is a rare opportunity. I've spent my life writing history and it surprises me not at all that people can burn the candle for years and still not agree on something that people from the outside would think to be an easily answered question.

David Aiken has sent me a lot of material concerning both the Zero and Pearl Harbor - tremendous knowledge. I also have to plug the very classy booklet that Nick Millman wrote and can be bought on his site http://www.aviationofjapan.com/ title "Painting the Early Zero Sen." It was well worth the $12 and I was impressed enough that I bought Nick's very good book about the Tojo.

Might point out that some folk in North Dakota spent big bucks producing a (I believe) replica of the Zero. Check the paint job they thought was accurate:

ZeroRestored.png

Let's also not forget that whatever shade of paint we're dealing with it's a gray and grays will drive you nuts. I tried to my own version of the early war Val color which as noted earlier was not the same as the Zero's but a kind of cousin. I won't bore you with the details, but there is no green in the mix I used. However, if you start mixing ocher and black (really a kind of green gray) you got odd things happening to the eyeball. Most of the photos I took appear distinctly greenish on film as you can see from the first photo below. The detail has the amber color that you'd see if you came to my house to look at it. The last one kind of splits the difference. Same model, same place, same time, same camera - different results.

Keeps us on our toes.

11rear.jpg

fr_rt_det.jpg

rt_ac.jpg

Eric

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  • 1 year later...

The early Zeros were painted in the Tamiya XF-76 color which has the more "caramel" hue to it. In Japan it's referred to as "Ame-iro" named after a caramel candy. My belief is that the original paint was closer to IJN Grey (Tamiya XF-12), with the caramel tint coming from a protective anti-corrosion clear lacquer sprayed over the original color for shipboard operations. The clear coat had a slight yellow-brown to it, hence the caramel tint, which XF-76 represents. Later Zeros with the green top, grey bottom would use the XF-12 for the grey. The XF-76 is correct as the overall color. Don't follow the Hasegawa two-tone painting guide; it is not accurate. The entire airframe in XF-76 is correct for a new, unfaded plane.

Edited by Kevin Thompson
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The early Zeros were painted in the Tamiya XF-76 color which has the more "caramel" hue to it. In Japan it's referred to as "Ame-iro" named after a caramel candy. My belief is that the original paint was closer to IJN Grey (Tamiya XF-11), with the caramel tint coming from a protective anti-corrosion clear lacquer sprayed over the original color for shipboard operations. The clear coat had a slight yellow-brown to it, hence the caramel tint, which XF-76 represents. Later Zeros with the green top, grey bottom would use the XF-11 for the grey. The XF-76 is correct as the overall color. Don't follow the Hasegawa two-tone painting guide; it is not accurate. The entire airframe in XF-76 is correct for a new, unfaded plane.

I'm sorry but your information is incorrect. XF-76 is nowhere near any kind of "carmel" color, it is grey-green. According to the leading researchers on this subject, Tamiya XF-76 is not any sort of accurate representation of the coloration of a new, unweathered A6M2 or A6M3. I have Nick Millman's treatise and he indicates that XF-76 is representative only of a moderately weathered aircraft. Jim Lansdale, Robert Mikesh and several others have examined relic evidence ad nauseum and almost 100% have concluded the the proper coloration of these early aircraft is in the olive-grey range. If you go to j-aircraft.com, you can read Jim Lansdale's article on these early aircraft. In that article, he quotes Robert Mikesh as examining extant relics and giving Munsell and FS approximations for these early aircraft which in no way are any shade of grey-green. Don't trust color photographs that you may see online or in some books. Color photography was still a relatively new media during WWII and the chemicals/film used and the passage of time have changed hues and thus can not be trusted.

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XF-76 IS caramel compared to XF-12. I don't mean brown like a candy bar, but compare the two colors together and you will see what I mean. IJN paint went from rich to chalk in a very short time. If one is building a one-tone Zero, XF-76 is the closest match to what the experts say the originals once looked like. ALL Japanese greys have a green tint to them, including XF-12, and the IJAAF grey, as well. With regards to olive, I would say that is in the green spectrum, as well.

Edited by Kevin Thompson
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