1/48 PBY Question

[GreatMoose]

I'm wanting to do a Black Cat, and found a good deal on the current reissue of the Revell (#5617) 1/48 PBY-5/OA-10, but I was wondering if that particular version of the kit had the nose mounted 20mm cannons? THanks!

[ccrqw]

I'm wanting to do a Black Cat, and found a good deal on the current reissue of the Revell (#5617) 1/48 PBY-5/OA-10, but I was wondering if that particular version of the kit had the nose mounted 20mm cannons? THanks!

I am looking at the instruction sheet as I type and " yes " the kit comes with the optional "bug eye" turret with twin 30 mm cannons for the Black Cat VP-54 version.

[J.C. Bahr]

the kit comes with the optional "bug eye" turret with twin 30 mm cannons for the Black Cat VP-54 version.

I think there were only .30 cal machine guns in the bug eye turret.

Some of the Black Cats did toy around with 20 mm cannons and .50 cal mg's mounted in the nose below the turret though.

[Dave Williams]

There were never any cannons in the 1/48 PBY kits. The -5A kits had a choice of the original nose turret with a single .30 cal machine gun or the bug eye turret with twin .30 cal machine guns.

[GreatMoose]

There were never any cannons in the 1/48 PBY kits. The -5A kits had a choice of the original nose turret with a single .30 cal machine gun or the bug eye turret with twin .30 cal machine guns.

Really? Dang. I could of sworn at least one of them did. Oh well, maybe I can figure something out. Thanks guys!

[Hawk10]

As far as I know, the only USN patrol bomber to be equipped w/20 mm cannon were some PB4Y-2s modified infield by the units operating them (out of Iwo and Okinawa I believe). 4 20 mm cannon were mounted under the floor of the nose compartment, firing forward. Apparently the installation was successful enough that plans were made to have the installation made at the factory, but the war ended before that was done.

[ccrqw]

As far as I know, the only USN patrol bomber to be equipped w/20 mm cannon were some PB4Y-2s modified infield by the units operating them (out of Iwo and Okinawa I believe). 4 20 mm cannon were mounted under the floor of the nose compartment, firing forward. Apparently the installation was successful enough that plans were made to have the installation made at the factory, but the war ended before that was done.

Ok now I am really confused. I just checked my reference books PBY CATALINA in actionand PBY CATALINA in detail & scale both references show PBYs with either single or twin .30 cal. The re-released Revell kit 85-5617 also offers the option of an armed or unarmed rescue version in 1/48 scale. I am still searching for reference to a .20 cal. The .30 cal waist guns were replaced the more extented ranged with .50cal.

[ccrqw]

I think there were only .30 cal machine guns in the bug eye turret.

Some of the Black Cats did toy around with 20 mm cannons and .50 cal mg's mounted in the nose below the turret though.

yes J.C. you are correct, I got my mm and cal crossed. Thanks for keeping me straight. I am just glad it was a fellow USAF guy

[Dave Williams]

There were apparently trials with fixed forward firing armament, but mainly just trials.

http://books.google.com/books?id=R912FYFGM...result#PPA49,M1

[J.C. Bahr]

There were apparently trials with fixed forward firing armament, but mainly just trials.

More than just trials.

W.J. "Bill" Lahodney (who if I'm reading correctly) was from Patrol Bombing Squadron 52 and were around Palm Island seadrome, Australia. He was a pretty "colorful" Black Cat pilot and who after having ridden in some of the strafer modded B-25's, came up with the idea of mounting quad .50 cals (two-over-two) to fire through the bow plate window for the bomb-sight which wasn't useful for the Black Cat mission. They were mounted so that the muzzles were just aft of the angled bow plate and a new plate was installed with four blast tubes that extended forward seven inches. The .50's were bolted down to the keel and they were still able to have the gunner in the turret with the twin .30's and a burlap pad was placed over the barrels of the .50's so that the gunner would not get burned while straddling them. Tests were very successful and it says that at "least three planes" were so equipped in "every succeeding squadron." VPB-52 moved North to operate out of Namoia Bay on November 20th (1943? - book is vague here) to relieve VPB-11 and on November 22nd Lahodney and his crew attacked a destroyer escort off New Ireland in a dive-bombing run, but their four bombs missed. A short while later they located a barge in St. George's Channel between Duke of York island and New Ireland. "The cats sent tracers from their quad fifties slamming into the enemy craft, leaving it broken and burning." For another later action, Lahodney would be awarded the Navy Cross. Also, fellow squadron mate Bob Dilworth would receive the Silver Star for another particularly hair-raising mission over Wewak in which he found himself tucked in-between two Japanese fighters in the middle of their landing pattern at night and the Jap fighters had their formation lights on for landing and one got particularly annoyed that he got cut off by somebody else who he thought was a unit mate that did not have his lights on, but it turned out to be Dilworth's Black Cat. The gunners in the rear blisters could even see the Jap pilots cockpit lights! Dilworth managed to sink a ship and strafe shore facilities and barges before the Japanese fighters knew what was really going on and the Black Cat had already slipped off into the darkness.

The above information is bits and pieces from Chapter 10 ("The Stuff of Legends) from the book "Black Cat Raiders of WW II" by Richard C. Knott (ISBN 1-55750-471-7) and published by Naval Institute Press.

They show a picture of the mounted quad .50's without the plate with the blast tubes.

I'm pretty sure I've also seen pics of a Black Cat that had two 20 mm's with one mounted on each side of the bow plate window that operated in the Pacific as well, but I have not been able to dig up that information yet.

[J.C. Bahr]

I'm pretty sure I've also seen pics of a Black Cat that had two 20 mm's with one mounted on each side of the bow plate window that operated in the Pacific as well, but I have not been able to dig up that information yet.

Found it!

On Page 78 of Osprey's "US Navy PBY Catalina Units of The Pacific War" there's a close-up photo of a VP-54 Black Cat's nose that shows the two 20 mm's protruding from the nose. It says they were based around Guadalcanal between 1943 and 1944 and that several were modified this way as well.

Unfortunately, none of my refs shows any additional specifics as to BuNo's or any other identifying markings for any of the specific aircraft so modified in either unit.

I do believe both units were flying -5A's by the time of these modifications.

[zerosystem]

for any of those who might play video games the new call of duty: world at war has an entire mission based on the black cats and has you running from the ventral turret in the tail to the nose and everywhere in between. on of the best parts of the game

[afyeats]

How would Salt Water be kept out of the guns? I can see tape at the start of a mission (or a rubber.........), but would it be enough?

[J.C. Bahr]

How would Salt Water be kept out of the guns? I can see tape at the start of a mission (or a rubber.........)

Ding, ding, ding! B)

There's a fairly comical incident in which Lahodney's first aircraft came to a short and ignominious end and had to be forcibly beached and had apparently broken up in the process... and there were prophylactics everywhere in the surf as they had just picked up a bunch of them for this very purpose, as it was found that they worked very well for keeping water out of the guns.