Jump to content

1/48 Avro Arrow


Recommended Posts

Tomcat, yup I've got that book and bought it, must be just about 30 years ago!

Max Headroom ... and here I thought I'd be the first one EVER to have an Arrow built with the Sparrows deployed and the Radome off ... dang, I guess I may as well pack it in now ... :wave:

On a simultaneous build, I'm building the newer tool Arrow with the North Star cockpit set. Which one did you use, or is it scratch built?

Thanx for positive comments gents! Being a novice, I do appreciate 'em!

Pete

Link to post
Share on other sites

K2, all good points, the poor old Arrow to this day still in flames people. I had two elderly gents almost come to blows in front of out club display one year...one was an ex-Avro employee, the other was a lifetime Dief fan...it was unpleasant to say the least.

The |LM build was great! The one thing I don't mess with is NASA builds, and I could only hope to do an LM that well!

Despite the silly nature of some of the waht-if concepts, there is also some good research data there as well, as some of those guys take the idea of actual in-servie details of cancelled aircraft pretty seriously.

Good luck on the rest of the build.

Alvis 3.1

Link to post
Share on other sites

A good book in my opinion to read is Arrows to the Moon by Chris Gainor. It doesn't touch on the decision to kill Arrow so much, but it does talk about after with several of the engineers migrating south to provide practical engineering experience to NASA on their space program and this relationship still continues to this day. John Chamberlain practically used some of the elements of the Arrow to mature the Gemini spacecraft design from an oversized Mercury to something that IMHO worked SOOO much better.

I would say probably the biggest factor in killing Arrow though was a little incident in October 1957 called Sputnik. As such, at that point the US and Canada figured the days of a need for a world beating Interceptor were numbered as the transition then began from massed fleets of bombers to ICBMs.

Link to post
Share on other sites
John Chamberlain practically used some of the elements of the Arrow to mature the Gemini spacecraft design from an oversized Mercury to something that IMHO worked SOOO much better.

I would say probably the biggest factor in killing Arrow though was a little incident in October 1957 called Sputnik. As such, at that point the US and Canada figured the days of a need for a world beating Interceptor were numbered as the transition then began from massed fleets of bombers to ICBMs.

You mean, of course, Jim Chamberlain ... and we Canadians are well aware of the contribution the ex-Arrow employees made to the US space program. And Sputnik ... I'd say that had very little to do with it. The cancellation was way more involved than just that. Suffice to say it was a political decision ... and it was neither the first nor the last, blow to the engineering community up here.

Pete

Link to post
Share on other sites

This was said about the TSR 2 from Britain a few years later:

"All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics. TSR.2 simply got the first three right."

- Sir Sydney Camm

The Arrow too was beset by the same issues. Ever notice that all white expensive protoypes seem to get the axe? Arrow, TSR 2, XB-70, Lavi, all cancelled before their time. The Concorde was almost cancelled, ( only a contract with France kept the UK from bailing out). I wonder if somehow beancounters automatically think "White Elephant" when they see large, white expensive planes? Oh well, all conjecture.

K2 Pete...what scheme is the Arrow going to be in? I've never tackled the 1/48th bird, and would not want to do it in a metal finish...me and metal finishes are not on good terms.

One of the weapon loads I've contemplated doing for an Arrow was the Velvet Glove missile, developed at CARDE. One downside is that I'd have wound up explaining what it was to most people whenever it would get shown. "Those Sparrows look odd." "They're Velvet Gloves." "Huh?"

All this has inspired me to dig out my 1/48 kit again. Perhaps an Arrow being serviced with a bunch of panels open on it would make a nice diorama. Finding Canadian ground vehicles in any scale might be a little hard tho, but the ground techs would be not hard to scrounge. The "Arrow Scrapbook" is an invaluable resource for that sort of material. I too got mine on sale, as the original sticker price almost stopped my heart!

Alvis 3.1

Link to post
Share on other sites
K2 Pete...what scheme is the Arrow going to be in? I've never tackled the 1/48th bird, and would not want to do it in a metal finish...me and metal finishes are not on good terms.

One of the weapon loads I've contemplated doing for an Arrow was the Velvet Glove missile, developed at CARDE. One downside is that I'd have wound up explaining what it was to most people whenever it would get shown. "Those Sparrows look odd." "They're Velvet Gloves." "Huh?"

Alvis 3.1

This is just gonna be a white model, (no day-glo) and some heavy weathering. And I haven't decided what ID it'll have but it'll be either RL201, RL202, RL203, RL204 RL205 or RL206. Nothing too special.

Pete

Link to post
Share on other sites

My pit is totally scratchbuilt. I taped the nose and canopy together, filled it with RTV rubber, cut out the basic shape and then built the tub with styrene.

I like a little bit of irony so the seats, control columns and instrument panels were kit bashed from an old F-105G I had. The radome was off an F-15A.

I took a shortcut with the weapons bay though and faked the launch rails, and I never even thought of separating the flaperons.

In true Canadian fashion, the NMF is aluminum duct tape. It covers the panel line flaws of that old kit nicely.

Tomcat, yup I've got that book and bought it, must be just about 30 years ago!

Max Headroom ... and here I thought I'd be the first one EVER to have an Arrow built with the Sparrows deployed and the Radome off ... dang, I guess I may as well pack it in now ... :woot.gif:

On a simultaneous build, I'm building the newer tool Arrow with the North Star cockpit set. Which one did you use, or is it scratch built?

Thanx for positive comments gents! Being a novice, I do appreciate 'em!

Pete

Edited by MaxHeadroom
Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not a 'what-if' kinda guy. Having only been in this hobby for a couple years, I'm still getting used to being able to augment a kit with brass and plastic and kleenex! All tolled, I've built 16 models, all Real Space ( check the ARC Space Gallery, and you've probably seen my 1/48 LM Cutaway here on ARC) ... this is my first aircraft. But still having a blast!

And, let's try to keep this thread opinion free regarding the poor old Arrow program. I've worked with about 9 guys who worked on both the Arrow and the Bras D'or (a cancelled sub chasing hydrofoil ) and have also read what I could get my hands on, and just in the last week re-read "There Never was an Arrow" book. Lots of numbers in there ( like having customers for 300 Iroquois engines ). Selling the results of our R&D and design and development would've at least offset what was perceived as high cost overruns, but it never should've seen cancelled at all. What a waste.

So I have very strong opinions on this program, and the Jetliner, and the Bras D'or and the Bomarc and the aircraft we bought ( F-5, F-104, F-101, F-18) that couldn't and still can't out-perform what the Arrow had already demonstrated it could do. And the government of the day ... and ... and ... and ... it just breaks my heart ... I'm done now ... :thumbsup:

Anyway Toad, the Chapters is in St Catharines. No idea if these books are available chain-wide.

Pete

Pretty much ditto with me. Getting back to your build. I commend you on your bravery for tackling the HC1651/1658 old tool Arrow. Looks like the proposed weapons diagrams I emailed you worked out well as your scratched built sparrows weapon pack looks really nice. As I mentioned before, if things are getting frustrating, just put it aside and come back to it with a calmer mind and fresh approach. You're doing great on this old tooled Arrow and I can't wait to see the finished result.

Edited by aerofan
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

This in INDEED a frustrating build!

While working on the other "New Tool" Arrow, all I've been doing on this one has been sanding ... and filling and sanding. When I hold the model to sand, the fuselage seams flex and split. So-o-o-o, I've been trying to effect repairs on 'em. And little things just weaken and fall off too. The drooped elevators have had to be reinforced, the rudder as well.

This week I'll spray on some Mr Surfacer and hopefully get a coat of paint on it.

BstillsandingArrow1.jpg

Bstillsanding.jpg

These are the little engine gas vents that are indicated on the kit just as panel lines. Now how can I fill those panel lines?

And that's the mounting hole you see under the left vent. This'll be displayed in-flight with missiles deployed.

Bengineventparts.jpg

BengineventfixonArrow1.jpg

Thanx

Pete

Link to post
Share on other sites
The US had nothing to do with the cancellation of the Arrow! It was on the advice of George Pearkes General (retarded) that pushed old John over the edge on this project. In fact the Liberals were going to scrap the thing just prior to their defeat by the Conservatives but decided to let Diefenbunker take the heat.

The Arrow was a long way over budget, costing the Canadian taxpayers $880 Million and another $293 million for the Sparrow weapons system. The over-runs were squarely on the shoulders of our own senior officers in Air Force Headquarters who kept wanting more bang for their buck

I did considerable research on this program while attending the military staff school in 1974 and it is amazing how many people believe the CBC POC movie version of the Arrow.

Barney

I agree with Barney, if you read most of the de-classified info on the Arrow it was actually Canadians who cancelled the project. Americans were given the blame but they were actually encouraging us to build the Arrow.

My dad worked on the program and he played on the same soccer team as all of the pilots. He was RCAF at the time. Sadly on a move from Toronto to Edmonton the movers lost all my dad's photo and memo's from his time with the program.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 6 months later...

After losing interest in this thing for the last coupla months, I finally felt to urge to try to get this done!

The Sparrow missiles. Now, not being well versed in ordnance colours and their meanings, I saw a vid wherein the Sparrows were yellow with red fins.

And saw other pix where they were white and other pics where they were blue. I'm gonna keep 'em white, but do you guys have any idea as to what would've been operational in 1959?

A1-sparrows.jpg

The Sparrows will be attached to this deployment mechanism. The doors are done and just need attaching.

A1-weaponsdeploymech.jpg

The plates on the intake are made of styrene.

A1-intakeplate.jpg

My first attempt at preshading.

A1-inflightpreshade.jpg

Masking the Air Con system.

A1-maskaircon.jpg

Pete

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Well it's done ... I guess.

This Arrow, and the other simultaneous build, was my first aircraft model. And I really wanted to make 'em perfect! But, I just don't know enough ... yet.

I used decals that had to be cut out and I didn't trim 'em close enough. I really thought the decal setting solutions would make them settle down perfectly, but that didn't happen. So, only when I brushed on some pastel weathering, did I see the edges of the decals. That, plus a bunch of other little flaws, won't win this any awards. But I'm still gonna bring it down to the NATS in a couple days, and put it on display. I haven't seen any Arrows that look like these. So ... just don't look too-o-o closely! :cheers: They were a heckuva lot of effort, but I'm still very happy with 'em. What I've learned could fill a book! I now have a little more respect for you guys that build gorgeous aircraft. With the man-handling, pitot tubes getting caught on everything, banging scratchbuilt landing gear on everything, and the absolute FEAR of breaking them, and dust on the inside of the canopy :whistle: ... well, I'm glad it's over. :thumbsup:

Here ya go ...

The Sparrows are deployed and some pastel weathering is shown.

Aug17-inflightunder.jpg

Aug17-inflightunderfront.jpg

Aug17-inflight.jpg

Aug17-inflightnose.jpg

Aug17-inflightrear.jpg

Thanx for looking in gents.

Pete

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow....that is just awesome ! I can't believe how much she looks like a real Arrow. Great job. I do have to admit to being a little jealous, tho.....

And your Sparrow arrangement looks great as well. The lettering and numbers really add to them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...