Alex Ridpath Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Hello all. Is it me or is it just hard to get white piant right. I mean I have this floquil now and I have heard that it is a one coat wonder.... but its not.. Maybe it is with an airbrush but with a paint brush it just takes so many coats.. I have xtracolor white, humbrol white and Floquil and they all seem to need 5 or 6 coats to get a white streak free finish... is this normal ? This is no good to do with humbrol as the paint clumps so easily.. with Xtracolor its ok .. the Floquil is nice and thin but to many brush strokes and the previos coat comes off ... Is this the way it is with brush paint and white paint.. any advice. I dont want White paint to be the part of kit building I dont look forward to Thanks for any advice Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GGoheen Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Whites normally take several coats when brush painted to cover and look nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
modelsntoys Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 I've never tried brush painting white over a large area. I would think the Reefer White must be air brushed. I agree, white is a pain to work with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Undercoat the white with silver. That will reduce the number of coats significantly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chris_UK Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 try vallejo white . it covers well , or automotive spray ( acrylic) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChristianVlcek Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 If you can get Tamiya White primer in a spray can, according to other guys here it apparently works very well as a flat white, and it covers very well (I've only ever used the gray). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Huey Gunner Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 If you can get Tamiya White primer in a spray can, according to other guys here it apparently works very well as a flat white, and it covers very well (I've only ever used the gray).Have used several times. Stuff is gold! :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 problem is- your trying to bush paint the white, not good. Brush painting shears paint across a surface and does not evenly deposit the paint (thus the brush strokes). Spraying lays things on evenly and is "shear thinning"- on other words is flows nice when spraying but when it hits the surface the platelet particles lay flat and "stick". White is a particlualy difficult color- it has large particles and is not absorb much light (hey, it's white not black). As others said my preference for white is: - Tamiya Primer White in a spray can - Floquil Reefer White (Airbrushed) - Testers Enamel White (Airbrushed) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PNW_Modeler Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Have used several times. Stuff is gold! :) Well....actually it comes in white, not gold....but it is damn good! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Huey Gunner Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Well....actually it comes in white, not gold....but it is damn good!Some people...jeessshhh! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phantom ordie Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Krylon for plastics covers in one coat normally. :) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ByronLeal Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 well, for me the best way to get a "perfect" white in only 2 or 3 coats -at the most- is to mix flat and gloss white from Testors, the little glass bottles. but I use an airbrush :D Have Fun Byron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TomcatFanatic123 Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I'm among the folks that hate, despise, loathe and can't stand painting white paint. Thanks to Anthony Wan, I now use Rust-Oleum Painter's Touch Flat White rattle can. Works like a charm. I usually don't even bother brushing white paint any more Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AnthonyWan Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 I'm among the folks that hate, despise, loathe and can't stand painting white paint. Thanks to Anthony Wan, I now use Rust-Oleum Painter's Touch Flat White rattle can. Works like a charm. I usually don't even bother brushing white paint any more Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alex Ridpath Posted January 31, 2009 Author Share Posted January 31, 2009 Well I went out to day and got some Tamiya matt white spray cans why did I not try that agaes ago.. it works so well. So happy with the ease of use and even finish.. I have cleared it with the finance director and maybe I will get an airbrush for my birthday B) wonderfull !!!!!! Thanks guys Alex Quote Link to post Share on other sites
I.Illes Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 Have used several times. Stuff is gold! Another vote for that! István Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 Brush painting shears paint across a surface and does not evenly deposit the paint (thus the brush strokes). Spraying lays things on evenly and is "shear thinning"- on other words is flows nice when spraying but when it hits the surface the platelet particles lay flat and "stick". White is a particlualy difficult color- it has large particles and is not absorb much light (hey, it's white not black). Brush painting doesn't "shear" the paint. It is possible to get an absolutely level surface with any paint, applied by brush, if the viscosity of the paint is correct, you use a good quality brush, and the paint does not dry to quickly. The ridges caused by the bristles of the brush should flow out (the paint property is called leveling) when properly applied as described. If they do not, the viscosity is too low, and a small amount of thinner or retarder is needed. Secondly, pigment particles are not all plate shaped. They vary quite considerably. Even some metallics are not plate-shaped, although most are. White pigment is titanium dioxide. It is very heavy, which is why the same weight of pigment in a white paint results in fewer pigment particles per square inch. Titanium dioxide is a mineral, and it is used in two forms: anatase in flat whites, and rutilated in gloss whites. Neither is a flat, platy, shape. Pigments in paint may absorb light, but that is not what gives them color. It is the wavelength (color) of light that they reflect that causes us to see color (black is a minor exception, but this is about white). Both of these forms of titanium dioxide are highly reflective of most visible light wavelengths, hence the white color. Rutilated titanium dioxide also has a high "internal reflectance"â€â€the light that it does absorb is reflected by the internal structure of the crystal, leading to an even greater total reflectance than anatase. Because of this (and other reasons) less rutilated pigment is used in gloss paints, and flat paints contain more anatase, which also has a slightly smaller particle size. Gloss paints require a lower pigment load than flats. A flat white will contain more anatase pigment than a similar gloss white. Gloss white needs a lower proportion of pigment so that the binder can produce a smooth, glossy surface. Rutilated pigment, with its higher total reflectance, is ideal for this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) Brush painting doesn't "shear" the paint. It is possible to get an absolutely level surface with any paint, applied by brush, if the viscosity of the paint is correct, you use a good quality brush, and the paint does not dry to quickly. The ridges caused by the bristles of the brush should flow out (the paint property is called leveling) when properly applied as described. If they do not, the viscosity is too low, and a small amount of thinner or retarder is needed.Secondly, pigment particles are not all plate shaped. They vary quite considerably. Even some metallics are not plate-shaped, although most are. White pigment is titanium dioxide. It is very heavy, which is why the same weight of pigment in a white paint results in fewer pigment particles per square inch. Titanium dioxide is a mineral, and it is used in two forms: anatase in flat whites, and rutilated in gloss whites. Neither is a flat, platy, shape. Pigments in paint may absorb light, but that is not what gives them color. It is the wavelength (color) of light that they reflect that causes us to see color (black is a minor exception, but this is about white). Both of these forms of titanium dioxide are highly reflective of most visible light wavelengths, hence the white color. Rutilated titanium dioxide also has a high "internal reflectance"â€â€the light that it does absorb is reflected by the internal structure of the crystal, leading to an even greater total reflectance than anatase. Because of this (and other reasons) less rutilated pigment is used in gloss paints, and flat paints contain more anatase, which also has a slightly smaller particle size. Gloss paints require a lower pigment load than flats. A flat white will contain more anatase pigment than a similar gloss white. Gloss white needs a lower proportion of pigment so that the binder can produce a smooth, glossy surface. Rutilated pigment, with its higher total reflectance, is ideal for this. You say "potato" I say "pot-ah-to". I was tyring to explain things in laymen's terms - or rather "beer on the workbench" terms. I'd only disagree that when brush painting you certainly are shearing the paint on- I cite this study: http://www.springerlink.com/content/v53525530x877427/ Low shear viscometry in relation to brushing Edited February 1, 2009 by toadwbg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Triarius Posted February 1, 2009 Share Posted February 1, 2009 I see what you were talking about. While shear is certainly present in any viscous material being applied to a surface, the paint should be formulated (or engineered if you prefer) in a way that will reduce any adverse effects. This is one of the reasons that it is a good idea to wait for paint to cure fully before brushing on a second coat. "beer on the workbench" terminologyâ€â€I like that. Trying to put technological and scientific "stuff" into terms easily understood by the uninitiated is challenging, at best. <wry grin> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alex Ridpath Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 (edited) I just learnt a lesson :) using a Tamiya spray paint over an existing enamel coat will lift the enamel off the plastic :P just had to rescue the fuselage on the skyraider. It seems like i will have to clean sand and prepare and start again with a clean surface. I guess as a beginner I will learn new things everyday. ho hum! Edited February 3, 2009 by Alex Ridpath Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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