Al Williams - ORIGINAL Curtiss Gulf Hawk colors

[Indian]

Hello to all members from the "nugget"

As a Marine aviator - I am trying to find info on Major Alford Williams original Curtiss Gulfhawk colors ---

Specifically looking for the colors on the bird he flew while touring China - this is the one with the Wright Cyclone and is before the crash when it was rebuilt as a Gulfhawk IA with the well known orange color scheme --- I found a couple of "grainey" photos on the web that seem to indicate that it had an all - blue fuselage

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am trying to duplicate ALL of his aircraft in 1/72 scale

Thanks for helping the "new guy on the street"

BTW you can e-mail me at marinerio69@yahoo.com

Semper Fi!

[Skyking]

Hi Indian,

I believe this is the aircraft you are refering to?

The fuselage would have been "Curtiss Blue" which in essence is a lighter shade of Insignia Blue. It was the same blue used on the Page Racer and a few other Curtiss aircraft of that era. The scallops on the cowl I believe were White, with light blue pinstriping on the edges. The big mystery will be the wings and tail colors, but I believe they were Aluminum Dope or enamel. I have a few more resources at home I can check to see if there's any more info on it.

Cheers

Mike

Edited February 4, 2009 by Skyking

[Indian]

Hi Indian,

I believe this is the aircraft you are refering to?

The fuselage would have been "Curtiss Blue" which in essence is a lighter shade of Insignia Blue. It was the same blue used on the Page Racer and a few other Curtiss aircraft of that era. The scallops on the cowl I believe were White, with light blue pinstriping on the edges. The big mystery will be the wings and tail colors, but I believe they were Aluminum Dope or enamel. I have a few more resources at home I can check to see if there's any more info on it.

Cheers

Mike

Mike,

Thanks for the info that is the "exact" bird I am looking to model and any other photos or line drawings / especially any more info on the colors would be greatly appreciated... Most of us remember well the Orange and white Gulf Hawks - but, the real story is that Major Williams did a great deal of aviation work with this bird before he was fully sponsored by Gulf Oil --- that is what makes it such a unique build. PLEASE any comments or help that anyone has to offer is most appreciated... Major Williams was a member of our predecessor squadron in those early formative aviation years.

Regards,

[Skyking]

Indian here's what Trafford Doherty, Director of the Glen Curtiss Museum had to say:

Good luck with the color scheme thing! All I have are B&W photos. I found your Hawk in Bowers and it's the same one (NR982V)., but with dark-colored struts and (look carefully at the lower area of the rudder in your shot) a dark-painted section on the lower rudder area. Your photo appears to be earlier (1930) - in mine, there's no NACA cowl and huge (funky -Piper Cub-style) wheels are mounted. It looks a lot classier in your photo. In 1931, Williams installed a 575 hp Bliss-Jupiter engine - that's when it lost the cowl. It was following a later (2nd) crash that it received the metal skin, and a 710 hp Cyclone engine - and became orange. This airplane had quite a career. Maybe Gulf Oil archives might have something on the original colors.

Cheers

Mike

[Gunz]

I have noticed that the N number on the photo is NR982V. The same plane must be in the Smith Sonian because its number is N982V. What happened to the R? The FAA website will not recognize the R when entering it.

[sanmigmike]

I have noticed that the N number on the photo is NR982V. The same plane must be in the Smith Sonian because its number is N982V. What happened to the R? The FAA website will not recognize the R when entering it.

"A second letter indicating the aircraft's airworthiness category followed the N and preceded the identification numbers. These airworthiness indicators were; "C" for standard, "R" for restricted, "X" for experimental, and later an "L" for limited, (for example, NC1234). This was standard until December 31, 1948, when aircraft registered for the first time were required to display identification marks consisting of only the Roman capital letter "N" followed by the registration number. Existing aircraft operated solely within the United States could continue to display an airworthiness symbol until the first time such aircraft were recovered or refinished to an extent necessitating the reapplication of the identification marks. After December 31, 1950, all aircraft of United States registry operated outside of the United States were required to display identification marks consisting of the Roman capital letter "N" followed by the registration number."

Thanks to the FAA site. I don't know if you see it any more but when I was flying ag planes you had "Restricted" painted near the cockpit or on instrument panel on most of them but they didn't have R in the N number (I am not that old!).

Edited August 27, 2009 by sanmigmike