Choosing between Iwata and Badger

[Guest Carl98J]

Folks,

I am trying to make up my mind about which of these two to buy: an Iwata HP-BC, siphon feed, or an Badger 200-20 siphon feed.

Now, I have used an OLD Paasche H for almost 30 years, and it just doesn't cut the mustard any more. I need to be able to do finer lines with my new brush. A new compressor is also on the block, and I'm leaning to an Iwata Sprint Jet model.

Here's the big question. Which of these is easier to use and clean? I have never used a double action brush, so I'm somewhat lost at sea there. I plan on continuing to use the Paasche to do large area painting, and the other brush to do detail work.

I can get both brush and compressor from Dixie Art for about $250 US max, if I go the Iwata route totally.

I would appreciate your advice and opinions. By the way, could I get some sort of adapter which would allow me to dump the old compressor totally and use both brushes with the Iwata compressor?

TIA,

Carl Huffman

[Ricardo]

First vote for iwata. It's worth the extra bucks.

Ricardo

[jwilliamson]

I just got a Badger 155 and before a badger 350. A friend has had a bager 155 as well for about ten years. It was starting to act up so he sent an email to Badger for help. 15minutes later they called him back. He paid $6 shipping and they refurbished it for free. Great customer service.

JOE

[MikeV]

Joe is right, Badger's customer service is the best in the industry and I consider that more important than which airbrush is machined to tighter tolerances.

If you are considering an Iwata HP-BC siphon-feed then why are you considering a Badger single-action along with it?

I would compare apples to apples and look at a double-action Badger instead.

If you want a good Badger double-action siphon-feed airbrush then look at the Anthem 155 or the Omni 3000 as they are both excellent airbrushes. The Anthem 155 breaks down faster than any airbrush made and is very nice in overall balance, spray pattern and trigger smoothness. The Iwata is a little smoother but I don't think it is worth almost twice the price for something that has little bearing on results.

Mike

[Andy Mullen]

Carl

I can highly recommend the Iwata combo, as I have been using the Iwata Eclipse SBS and Iwata Sprintjet Compressor since last year.

HTH

[jkelleycrna]

I started out with a single-action Badger 200 series a few years ago....it was fine for a newly-returning modeler, but was a pain to clean. I upgraded to a double-action Paasche VL after about 6 months, and found it a decent tool. Easier to clean, and provided better control/detail.I picked up a slightly used Iwata HP-C on EBay for $89 about 1 1/2 months ago, and I cannot describe the improvement!Now, I do not have the airbrushing experience of someone like MikeV (who provided me with a great deal of wonderful advice...Thanks Mike!), and have not used the "high-end" Badgers, but I will never look back after using the Iwata.

Someone mentioned, when I was looking, that an expensive airbrush will not make a difference if someone does not know how to use it, and that may be true.......but to someone like me, with average skill, the improvements are dramatic, as far as I am concerned! I've been able to produce results which I didn't realize I was capable of, and have tried new techniques I would not have considered with the Paasche.....

I would suggest looking around on EBay for a while, and try to find a great deal....they are out there, you just need to be patient. Good Luck!!

JK

[Av8fan]

Choosing a brush: hmm, there are so many variables.

As for cleaning, well, I know what my old Paasche BC was like. It was okay to clean. I think it really dependeds (as usual) on the operator and the media being used.

Mike is right regarding your choices, best to compare apples and apples.

As for quality/price/customer service: I can only speak to the quality of the Iwata. This brush is lovely. Very finely crafted. I have an Eclipse CS(kept on calling it the wrong thing in my previous posts I think), and a sprintjet. Sometimes the sprintjet shutting off can shake my table, but placing it on the floor solved that(go figure eh?)

Were they worth the extra cost? Well, so far for me yes. But you have to decide that yourself. After all, you know what you can afford.

I would like to echo what jkelleycrna said. I got better results (almost hard camo lines right off the bat) instantly with the CS then I ever did with my Paasche or Aztec. Maybe the difference is knowledge? I dont know for sure. I said it before and I will say it again, learn what your brush needs re thinner/paint ratio and practice practice practice.

Its been a while since I picked up the brush, but I am getting that old itch back. :-) I know what to expect from the brush, and it is a pleasure to use. Having a great brush makes the painting less of a challenge IMHO.

BTW, there are some very good deals to be had on EBAy. I've searched a few times over the months and seen a few interesting deals. Just be carefull if you go that route, some of the sellers havent bothered to check the other auctions and their prices were a bit higher.

Good luck in your choice. Let us know which way you go.

P.S. Dont forget to check the IWATA page to ensure that you are matching the brush up with your media and uses.

[Zosh]

Erm, i've never tried Iwata, but my badger works fine for me, can see it in use for quite a number of years to come.Just my 2 cents.

Happy modeling

[Steve Filak]

I would like to echo what jkelleycrna said. I got better results (almost hard camo lines right off the bat) instantly with the CS then I ever did with my Paasche or Aztec. Maybe the difference is knowledge? I dont know for sure. I said it before and I will say it again, learn what your brush needs re thinner/paint ratio and practice practice practice.

As I've said many times before, the best airbrush out there is the one that produces the best results for you. There's no magic solution - the best thing to do is to try as many different ones as you can, find the one you're most comfortable with and produces the best results for you, and go from there.

I've tried most of them (Badger, Paasche, Iwata, Thayer and Chandler), and I still get the best consistent results with the Aztek. It all comes down to personal preference in the end.

[Collin]

Go for a Iwata side feed instead of the bottom sucker... much easier to clean and far more control with the paint.

My fav: Iwata Eclipse side feed.

Cheers

[CBREEZE]

Greetings,

Here's my .02 I am just getting back into modeling. Last one I did was about 15 years ago. My old airbrush was/is a Binks Wren single action. Wanted to get a new airbrush and compressor. After reading all the threads about brushes and compressors, I went with the Iwata HP-CS and also a HP-C along with the Smartjet compressor. I really like both except the Smartjet was a little overkill and waste of money for the following reason. It has an auto shut-off. I thought that would be nice except it only works when you shoot at maximum pressure. When you use the regulator to tone down the pressure, the auto shut-off does not work. Anyway, this is my only complaint about the compressor. It is quiet and is great. The Sprintjet would have suited my needs a little better.

As far as the airbrush goes, I really, really like it. At first the double action was a little hard to get use to but after I have been forcing myself to use it, it is no longer a problem. I also agree that results are not so much dependant on the equipment but the skill of the user. Get a good brush, hone your skills and you will be fine. One last thing, My Binks was a siphon feed, my Iwata is a gravity feed. I really like the gravity feed. Much easier to clean those bottles and caps were always a pain, at least to me. Hope this helps.

[MikeV]

Now, I do not have the airbrushing experience of someone like MikeV (who provided me with a great deal of wonderful advice...Thanks Mike!), and have not used the "high-end" Badgers, but I will never look back after using the Iwata.

Glad I could help my friend.

I think your statement along with Steve Filak's hits the nail on the head in that you should use what works for you as that is the best choice.

Now to someone who has never bought an airbrush, that can be a daunting task with all of the choices out there, and since many buy online they cannot hold the airbrush for themselves to see how it feels, so they have to rely on us to help them choose.

As many of you probably know I am a dedicated Badger user and will be one as long as they continue taking care of their customers as they do. I have been using their products (actually Thayer & Chandler) for about 10 years now and am very pleased with them.

I think that for the price they build the best airbrushes you can buy...period. Does Iwata make great airbrushes? Absolutely! But I think that sometimes people are mislead to believing that they need a $110 Iwata to paint freehand camo patterns that experienced modelers can easily do with even a Paasche H single-action model.

The way I see it a good comparison would be in the automotive world of cars. An Iwata airbrush would be a Lexus and a Badger would be a Toyota Camry. Both are excellent cars and both do the same job equally well. The Lexus is just more refined and thus more costly, although it offers no real advantage in terms of actual performance for it's intended purpose. ;)

I hope that was a good analogy. :wacko: :D

Let me also add that the airbrush Carl was considering (HP-BC) costs twice as much as many excellent double-action airbrushes.

I thought he was talking about the Eclipse series which is a lot cheaper.

Mike

[Steve Filak]

I hope that was a good analogy.

That was a perfect analogy - I couldn't have said it better myself. :wacko:

[MikeV]

Thanks Steve. I appreciate the vote of confidence. :wacko:

Are you going to the IPMS Nationals in AZ in August?

Mike

[Steve Filak]

I'm not sure yet, Mike. I've had a few unexpected setbacks over the past few months (including having to buy a new car), but if there's any way I can do it, I'll be there.

[Guest Carl98J]

Guys,

Thanks for all the input!

I guess I should have told you that I use both enamels (MM and now WEM) and acrylics (MM and Tamiya, as well as some Gunze Sangyo) to do mostly Japanese and Russian subjects, as well as some armor, although I haven't done much with it for a long time.

Even though I have used the Paasche for years, I'm not an accomplished user, since I don't seem to be able to get past the pressure issues using my old compressor with any degree of accuracy. Fine lines just aren't in the cards with it for me.

By the sound of things, I mis-stated the case in comparing the Badger 200-20 and the Iwata. I'm interested in being able to paint very fine lines (1 mm?) with the brush. Now,

perhaps that will give you more insight into the state of my abilities and requirements.

I don't mean to be a pain, but I would ask that you rethink and refine your suggestions and give me the benefits of your knowledge.

Again, thanks for your input.

By the way, I just picked up a Trumpeter Mig-3 today and can't wait to give it a go. After all, since it's so much larger than my usual 1/48 scale projects, I'll be able to see what I'm doing at the ripe old age of 59. GGGG.

Best regards,

Carl Huffman

[MikeV]

I'm not sure yet, Mike. I've had a few unexpected setbacks over the past few months (including having to buy a new car), but if there's any way I can do it, I'll be there.

I know what you mean Steve.

There is no way I can afford to go this year but Badger offered to send me there at their expense to represent them at their booth. :wacko:

I have never been to the Nationals or any big modeling show for that matter. ;)

Mike

[MikeV]

Carl,

Here is a test I did with my Badger 155 Anthem a while back to show it's fine line and thick line ability.

I did this little test with Testors Acryl paint at 20 PSI.

This is typical of most of the Badger airbrushes and you would get similar results with the Iwata.

Mike

[Mike W.]

Didn't we conclude in an earlier thread that the Thayer & Chandler Omni series was identical to the Iwata Eclipse series? And since Badger now sells the Omni line, they have the same warrenty.

I was checking out Dixie Art's website and the Iwata's have gone way up in price (to $105) in the last few months. Had they been that expensive when I got mine, I would have definitely gone for the $69 Omni 4000 instead of the Iwata HP-CS.

Anyway, I'm VERY happy with my Lexus/Iwata HP-CS. It's simple to clean, well balanced and simply blows away the Paasche VL I've been using. I never could get a good thin line with the Paasche (the needle doesn't center in the tip), but it's no problem with the Iwata.

If I buy another, though, it'll be an Omni.

[Av8fan]

Carl,

Both the Iwata and the Badger can spray lines from thin to thick. Mike V has given you a good example of what the badger can do. Basically the Iwata would be the same. Hence Mikes point about why get a Lexus when a Camry will do. Again, you have the decision as to what you can afford. Regardless of what you buy you must learn what that brush needs regarding paint/thinner ratio, air pressure etc etc etc. Its like any tool. You have to learn how to use it correctly.

As for the point Mike made about people being mislead into thinking they need to buy an expensive airbrush to get thin lines, I am sorry, but I think mislead is a bit off here. I dont see any of the Iwata fans saying "you can only do thin lines with the Iwata".

I never did get the results with my Paasche or Aztec that I did with the Iwata. Maybe if I had gotten an Omni and tried that, it would have been the same as my Iwata, maybe not. Who knows? All I can say is that I really love my Iwata. ( get your minds out of the gutter :wacko:) Different ppl get different results with different tools.

I have a good friend who builds and he gets amazing results with such ease, while I have to struggle. He just seems to toss his kits into the air and they land fully formed and painted. His hand brush jobs look better then my airbrushed efforts.

Cost is always an issure for me so who knows what the next brush will be? My brothers want some paint touchinging up done on their cars, and I dont feel good about using my modeling brush in that capacity. I did that with my Paasche years ago and didnt do a good enough job cleaning it. (I blame myself) She never did run right after that.

[Guest Carl98J]

To Mike and all the others who replied to my second set of questions,

Thanks again for the input. The picture of what can be done with the Badger just saved me some money. I think I'll go with the 155 Anthem. The Lexus v. Camry illustration was apt, and it sure does fit. To those who use Iwatas, no disrespect intended, but money is money.

Again, thanks for your help. I DO appreciate it a great deal.

Best regards,

Carl Huffman ;)

[MikeV]

As for the point Mike made about people being mislead into thinking they need to buy an expensive airbrush to get thin lines, I am sorry, but I think mislead is a bit off here. I dont see any of the Iwata fans saying "you can only do thin lines with the Iwata".

Sorry if that was unclear, but my point was that for someone who wants to freehand a camo paint pattern on a 1/72 scale aircraft he does not need an Iwata to do that as some would seem to argue. Most people seem to point to Iwata as spraying the finest lines and that is why I made that comparison. The Iwata's do spray thick lines also, but so does an inexpensive Badger 250. ;) ;)

Mike

[MikeV]

After reading that analogy again I have come to the conclusion that the word "refined" that I used was not a good choice of words as it implies that Iwata are built better than Badger's which I don't believe they are. I think a better way to say it would be that in the Lexus vs Camry analogy people perceive the Lexus as better because it is more money when in reality it isn't really better it just gives the perception as such because of the increased price. :lol:

Mike

[Mike W.]

I don't know jack about japanese cars, but I would assume that there are some differences between the Lexus and the Camry that make the Lexus the more desirable car. Same with the Iwata vs. the Badger. You said yourself that the Iwata is smoother and has tighter tolerances than the Badger. I've never used a Badger airbrush, so I can only compare the Iwata to the Paasche H and VL, but to me it was like trading in a K-car for a Viper (I like American cars :lol: ). I'd love to test drive a few Badgers and the Omni line, though.

Anyway, Mike, your advice has been very helpful, to myself and many others, I'm sure. I would never have known about the Omni line if you hadn't mentioned them. Now that I own one, I wouldn't trade my Iwata for anything, but I'd certainly consider an Omni or an Anthem if I find myself in need of a siphon feed.

[Massimo Moruzzi]

I haven't a wide experience, as I've used one airbrush only: the Badger 200; all I can say about this, is that I feel very comfortable with it: it's easy to operate, suitable for both wide coverage and very fine lines, easy to clean (at least IMHO), and it is possible to feed it with very little amounts of paint, although it is siphon feed.

I am still refining my skills, and notice that the above good points get better model after model.

A little more; it is 20+ years old (it was my father's), remained unused for 12 years so far and it's still perfect.

HTH

Massimo