Indian Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Hey hope someone can help with this! I found this photo of a Boeing FB-5 at two different web sites --- I flew with VF-31 in F-4 Phantom IIs and have quit a collection of aircraft representing the squadron's history This one has me and most of the shipmates "stumped" --- we think the bird is from the original VF-6 which is what our first designation was before we became VB-2B (the first - NOT the one that the High Hats became VB-2) 3rd VF-6 Established as Combat Squadron 4 23 Sep 1921 Redesignated VF-2 1 Jul 1922 Redesignated VF- 2B 19 Mar 1923 Redesignated VF-6B 1 Jan 1927 Redesignated VF-6 1 Jul 1927 Redesignated VB-2B 1 Jul 1928 Redesignated VF-6B 1 Jul 1930 Redesignated VF-3 1 Jul 1937 Redesignated VF-6 15 Jul 1943 Disestablished 29 Oct 1945 or 1 Oct 1945 The photos are listed below http://www.avsim.com/pages/2005conf/images/fb-5_crpd.jpg http://de.geocities.com/glupscherle/boeing-fb5-1927.jpg Thanks for any help you all have! Much appreciated "JTF" / aka "Indian" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuNo02100 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Indian, the pic is of a VF-6 FB-5 in the late 1927/early 1928 time frame. The shield type insignia, which confuses some people whom mistake it for an early version of the Flying Chiefs insig, was later replaced by Felix in 1928. Is/was (is -31 still around?) allowed to claim lineage to the VF-6 that was disestablished in 45? If so, then you have a pic of the squadron insig prior to the adoption of Felix, although I am not completely clear if that was your question. As you can tell by the lineage you posted, Naval Aviation was in a constant state of flux in the 20s and it seems that hey redesignated the squadrons almost every FY. USMC squadrons are even worse for this time period! BW Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Indian Posted March 4, 2009 Author Share Posted March 4, 2009 Indian, the pic is of a VF-6 FB-5 in the late 1927/early 1928 time frame. The shield type insignia, which confuses some people whom mistake it for an early version of the Flying Chiefs insig, was later replaced by Felix in 1928. Is/was (is -31 still around?) allowed to claim lineage to the VF-6 that was disestablished in 45? If so, then you have a pic of the squadron insig prior to the adoption of Felix, although I am not completely clear if that was your question. As you can tell by the lineage you posted, Naval Aviation was in a constant state of flux in the 20s and it seems that hey redesignated the squadrons almost every FY. USMC squadrons are even worse for this time period!BW BW Thanks for the info - I know that the plane is parked at NAS North Island Any ideas on what the actual shield looked like as far as a REPLICA would go! I have NEVER SEEN any color rendition for this particular squadron emblem... As far as current VFA-31 goes - they are around in fact my son is trying to get there for his next assignment... But, you are right about lineage - while they may carry on the honors of the squadron they ARE NOT the same In fact, (and someone correct me if I am wrong) I think that the ONLY squadrons that are "original" with full lineage are VFA-11 (the Rippers who trace back to VF-5B) and The Tophatters (VFA-14) who are the original High Hats of VF-1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuNo02100 Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 Indian, I am pretty sure I have seen the shield in full color some where, just cant seem to remember where. You may try contacting the National Museum of Naval Aviation or the Navy Historical Center-Aviation Archives Section. Good luck. BW Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Old Man Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 The lineage looks very tangled, Sir. The VF-31 website traces the lineage to Vf-1B ('Shooting Stars') commissioned July 1935, on Boeing F4B-4 fighters, then in 1939 received the designation VF-6, along with Grumman F3F-2 fighters. A swap of designations with VF-3 in 1943 brought 'Felix' into the picture, and the 'new' VF-6 (old 'Felix') unit was decommissioned in 1946. http://www.vf31.navy.mil/history.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ilpwnp Posted March 20, 2009 Share Posted March 20, 2009 The only reference to this I've been able to find is in the book "U.S. Navy Aircraft 1921-1941", on page 381 it shows a black & white drawing of the insignia in question and has the following text next to it: "Fighting Squadron Two designed a formal insignia of scroll, shield and crossed machine guns. The colors are unknown but most probably the shield and scroll are red and the guns black. Note how the red plane is in position to down his opponet. This insignia was used by VF-2B and VF-6B, was replaced by Felix-the-Cat when the squadron was re-designated VB-2b" I can send you a scan of the insignia if it will help... Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Indian Posted March 27, 2009 Author Share Posted March 27, 2009 The only reference to this I've been able to find is in the book "U.S. Navy Aircraft 1921-1941", on page 381 it shows a black & white drawing of the insignia in question and has the following text next to it:"Fighting Squadron Two designed a formal insignia of scroll, shield and crossed machine guns. The colors are unknown but most probably the shield and scroll are red and the guns black. Note how the red plane is in position to down his opponet. This insignia was used by VF-2B and VF-6B, was replaced by Felix-the-Cat when the squadron was re-designated VB-2b" I can send you a scan of the insignia if it will help... Matt Matt That would be great if you have a scan of the insignia and any other data e-mail me @ rwd06usmc@gmail.com Semper Fi and many thanks for the help! Robt. "Indian" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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