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BSG Series Finalie


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Yup...the more I ponder the final episode....the less I beleive they would have dumped their technology. Common sense would dictate you would hang on to anything that would help you survive. It would have been amusing if the toher humans were nethanderthals.......and the new arrivals could be modern humans. After all we did seem to have 2 different humanoid species on this planet at the same time.

What I would have liked to see is one group of new arrivals settling on the continent of Atlantis with all their technilogy while the other groups decide to abandon their technology and go "native". I also think their was too much misery in the final episode....but this has been the one unattractive part I haven't enjoyed about BSG. Boomer should not have kidnapped Hara and been killed and instead she should have settled down with the chief. Laura should have survived as well.

And I can't help but wonder if the final sceen with Giais and the blonde girl in New York....didn't make me think he was in fact one of the Gods.......the way he corrected her on the term God....I guess they were at the very least definately working for (the) God(s) as they seemed to be following the "project" along to see what happens.......much like a science experiment.

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Yup...the more I ponder the final episode....the less I beleive they would have dumped their technology. Common sense would dictate you would hang on to anything that would help you survive.

I think doing so though gave them a better overall chance of survival, their ships wouldn't have been much use to them on the ground except maybe as shelters, and with no manufacturing ability left they couldn't make spare parts when things broke down, eventually the ships would have to be abandoned anyway. Alvis and I were talking about this yesterday and he made an excellent point, after 4 years cooped up in a tin can floating in space, fearing every minute that you could be killed by a toaster, I'd want to have as little to do with technology as possible for a good long time. Given the option of continuing to float in space in a tin can, or having ground under my feet, sky over my head and real food that wasn't processed algae for the first time in 2 years, I'd hit the ground running and never look back.

Also I need to mention, a large number of small, decentralized populations are more favourable than a single densely populated city, a single cataclysm could wipe everyone out in one fell swoop... after spending 4 years running for their lives, being wiped out by a freak hurricane or flood would be a pretty depressing conclusion to the show.

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Did anyone see the Viper fall out the end of the port flightpod after they jumped? That's another good reason to retract the pods...

I felt it was a good end to the series. Some things felt a bit rushed in the last episode, but hey, I didn't want to watch a half hour of voting and campaigning for/against abandoning their ships. I think it makes sense in most ways, but I certainly would have off-loaded the cargo containers from "Colonial Movers".

My fave moment: Hot "Toaster-On-Toaster" action...particularly when the "New" series Centurion shot the Old Series Centurion in the head...To quote my son "BOOM! Headshot!"

A close second was about a couple dozen others, such as Boomer getting shot by Athena (And I HATE it when Boomer would get shot, but this time, she REALLY deserved it!), the whole Opera House is Galactica moment, Anders final "goodbye", the RTF sailing into the sunset to the old series theme, Tori getting hers via the Chief( I hope to NEVER see that look he had on a person's face in real life), Adama and Roslin's final flight together, The Last Jump of the Big G, Galactica ramming the Colony, Raptors jumping out of the Museum Pod, The "Dead Man's Hand" of fate kicking in, Husker's Final Flyby, the explanation of why Ellen was SO miserable, seeing Africa against the backdrop of black space, and I even liked Starbuck just disappearing.

I can now kill my cable. It lived past Spetember only so I could see this series end.

Alvis 3.1

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Yup...the more I ponder the final episode....the less I beleive they would have dumped their technology. Common sense would dictate you would hang on to anything that would help you survive. It would have been amusing if the toher humans were nethanderthals.......and the new arrivals could be modern humans. After all we did seem to have 2 different humanoid species on this planet at the same time.

Actually I thought the implication was that they were the first Homo Sapiens, since Haras bones were the ones being dug up on the news broadcast and being called the Eve ancestor of modern humans. Plus, the time period that they landed is the approximate time of the appearance of modern humans. Even if they did give up their technology, just their knowledge alone would have been enough to advance the human race far faster than it actually occured. Cultivation of crops, domestication of animals, fire, heck, just the wheel were tens of thousands of years in the future in real time.

Couple of questions, based on what I read here and having only seen a couple of episodes for myself. If they didn't already have the technology for lasers, what are the weapons on the Vipers and the blue streaks of light coming from their weapons batteries?

Also, I assume FTL drive means Faster than light. I'm OK with that, but how could they jump into light speed while embedded in Cylon colony after ramming it? Hopping around in space to me is something different than warp or faster than light speed travel, so that one surpised me as well. Even Han Solo knew that you need the Navi computer to chart your course, or you might run right through a star or too close to a supernova. :bandhead2:

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Actually I thought the implication was that they were the first Homo Sapiens, since Haras bones were the ones being dug up on the news broadcast and being called the Eve ancestor of modern humans. Plus, the time period that they landed is the approximate time of the appearance of modern humans. Even if they did give up their technology, just their knowledge alone would have been enough to advance the human race far faster than it actually occured. Cultivation of crops, domestication of animals, fire, heck, just the wheel were tens of thousands of years in the future in real time.

Couple of questions, based on what I read here and having only seen a couple of episodes for myself. If they didn't already have the technology for lasers, what are the weapons on the Vipers and the blue streaks of light coming from their weapons batteries?

Also, I assume FTL drive means Faster than light. I'm OK with that, but how could they jump into light speed while embedded in Cylon colony after ramming it? Hopping around in space to me is something different than warp or faster than light speed travel, so that one surpised me as well. Even Han Solo knew that you need the Navi computer to chart your course, or you might run right through a star or too close to a supernova. :bandhead2:

Hera's remains revealed she was the "Mitochondrial ancestor", the one person most humans DNA came from. It basically means we're all descended from a half-cylon!

They had no lasers, phasers, shields, transporters, or self sealing stem bolts on BSG. The weapons were high rate of fire cartridge driven projectiles, aka "guns". The blue streaks would have been tracers, just good ole tracers.

The "jump Drive" allowed them to jump to another location, no actual speed was mentioned. The range of the jumps were limited, however, so a really long distance would require several "jumps". I suppose it would be considered "FTL' as it gets you places faster than light, but it's not a whooooooooooooooosh zipping along with streaky stars going by type of FTL.

Starbuck had to enter some sort of coordinates into the jump drive. Presumably, they'd send scouts ahead to look at places before jumping in blind, but of course, the scouts might whack into something too, but space is mostly just emptiness. In a couple episodes they dealt with jumping too close, in one, a Raptor materialised inside a mountain! :rolleyes:

In the Miniseries "Razor", the Battlestar Pegasus jumped away from the space station she was docked at during a Cylon attack, so big ships did it at least once in the series.

Alvis 3.1

Edited by Alvis 3.1
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Ok thanks. I just saw the 'FTL' on the control panel that she puched the coordinates into, and made the connection. I guess that would defintely qualify as faster than light.

BTW, would it be a plot hole that the Galactica left the rest of the fleet behind, jumped into the Cylon colony, then jumped out to a location known only to Starbuck, but they rest of the fleet was able to find them and join them? I take it that communications were possible over that type of distance so that they could tell the rest of the fleet where they were? Interesting show, I could just never get into the series when it first started.

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BTW, would it be a plot hole that the Galactica left the rest of the fleet behind, jumped into the Cylon colony, then jumped out to a location known only to Starbuck, but they rest of the fleet was able to find them and join them? I take it that communications were possible over that type of distance so that they could tell the rest of the fleet where they were? Interesting show, I could just never get into the series when it first started.

No plot hole - they had arranged a rendezvous point prior to the attack on the Cylon colony, so it would be easy for them to send a raptor to those coordinates and bring the rest of the fleet back to the point that Starbuck had jumped them to.

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I liked the show alot, and will miss it.

The last episode was a little strange tho. What was the point of showing Adama sitting drunk in an alleyway, puking on himself? How did that help the storyline? I had no problem with the scenes with Lee and Kara, as it showed the series long personal frustration (ie sexual tension) between the two of them.

The bit about abandoning the tech has been done before on other sci-fi shows and movies. In those shows, an advanced race of people would abandon technology, if that technology had almost wiped them from existence. The Ba'ku did it in Star Trek: Insurrection, and it happened several times in the Stargate series. It was the development of robot tech that led to the cylon wars in the first place.

The only thing that I think would have made the very ending any better, would have been if the Gaius and Six "angels" had ran into Starbuck on the street!

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Hera's remains revealed she was the "Mitochondrial ancestor", the one person most humans DNA came from. It basically means we're all descended from a half-cylon!

Alvis 3.1

There is a big problem with this statement. If Hera died as a child she can't be our mitochondrial ancestor. Anybody want to try to answer this one?

...unless the child they found in the dig wasn't Hera.

Jose

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IMHO, only the worn-out Galactica should have gone, ceremoniously, into the sun(set). A large number of civilians would have settled on earth to farm and rebuild, but the true "space men" of the military might have sought to explore the system. A better plot-ending situation would have had ALL the ships wearing out from lack of spares and dropping out one by one, but that was not happening, so manufacturing ability was available in the fleet. Tech humans will not live without their technology unless they have to, especially in the near-polar latitudes of Earth.

Baltar as a farmer? It was hard enough imagining him as a scientist!

But it had to end somehow...All in all, a good show.

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The first thing that would have been done is to set up production facilities on the ships to make spare parts to keep the fleet moving to earth. I just don't buy the idea they would go native.....BUT.....I suspect this is more a comment on our current situation,

As a society we are now addicted to our technology.......we are totally reliant on it to survive. don't beleive me......turn off the power in a major city and see how long the city lasts. No water pumps......no heat........it wouldn't take long. Each of us is multi-tasking in ways that were unthinkable 50 years ago. We're stressed out and ofton we spend our days rushing from one thing to the next.....always behind and wishing for a simplier life.

TV usually comments on our current society and BSG has done that very much through the year.......I think the ending is yet another comment about us.....

The problem is.....a simplier life is much more work. in 1000AD the average person spent 14 hours a day producing food. Either hunting.....growing or processing it. That is the simplier life wihtout technology. Today you can survive on $10 - $15 a day for food.....that's only 1 - 2 hours worth of work. Technology and machinery has permitted us to have a life of luxury.....but in the process we wanted more and more......so we're still hustling around as much as the people did in 1000AD. But our technology has given us a better life. It would be nice to slow things down.

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There is a big problem with this statement. If Hera died as a child she can't be our mitochondrial ancestor. Anybody want to try to answer this one?

...unless the child they found in the dig wasn't Hera.

Jose

I have that issue of Geographic, it was a young woman and the 6 angels says "young woman" when reading over Ron Moore's shoulder. You may consider that in those times, a female was considered an adult not long after she started her cycles, being of an age to bear children. Not exactly a pretty concept by modern standards, but essential during the early days of human existence to the survival of the species. Also remember that the humanoid cylons. the 2s, 6s, and 8s, stayed on earth as well. They could have interbred with colonists and the indigenous population to create half cylon and half human offspring with the same mitochondrial traits. Hera was the first, but the first of how many? While there were 34-something thousand humans left, how many of the cylons were there? That is never said. I would also, considering the base ship, think it would number in the thousands as well.

I really loved the show for what it was, a morality story. It shows humanity for what it is, the good the bad and the ugly.

Starbuck as Jesus is a little far fetched in my book, though there are similarities. There are many resurrection stories in ancient cultures from Egypt to Mesopotamia that can also draw a line to her tale. Proof that Kara was not forgotten in at least some fashion. I believe she was as she was described, an angel that had a part to play in the plan, though she was ignorant of that part in the plan and it plagued her and ate at her. Jesus, according to scripture, knew the plan the whole time.

I also like that many colonists still believed in many gods while the cylons, Baltar and his followers, believed in one god. These two ideals were common throughout ancient times. What the Baltar like angel says though at the end when the 6 angel says "That too is in god's plan" is "You know IT doesn't like that name" still leading to the monotheistic and of course suggesting we do not know god as well as we think we do.

The two biggest problems for me if you took this seriously, which you're not supposed to, is that the colonials had enough signs of what we consider "modern tech" that some of it would have survived to today. Plastic buckles and such being one that would last well into modern times. Also, I cannot believe that a "modern urbanized" society like the colonials would survive long giving all modern conveniences up. Some of course would, but you would probably have more than 50% casualties within the first year, more considering they were seeded across the planet.

All in all though I found it first rate. The series dragged at some points but redeemed itself in the end. My personal favorite was Col. Tigh and his wife at the strip club. Good Gods the similarities!

Chariots of the Gods Baby, Chariots of the Gods!

Edited by Fuji
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I wanted to chime in. First, I loved the series. There were some story lines that were great and some that were boring and uninteresting. I wish it was still going forward, even in the terms of starting a life in a new world. Having said this, I thought the final episode was really a mixed bag. I thought the flash backs were absolutely pointless, they had really nothing to do with the plot. It just seemed to be filler to take up time when it could be used else where. What is the point of Adama taking a lie detector test, the "boy-toy", etc? It didn't matter. I didn't have a problem with the spirtual side of the story; however, having a sexbot (Caprica 6) and an Egotistical self center as angels was a bit of a stretch.

I hated seeing Boomer killed. I've always thought of her as a bit of a tragic hero. But it was realistic. If someone kidnapped your daughter and banged your husband in front of you... you probably aren't asking them over for tea. Although it was sad to have the Roslyn die, I thought it was realistic. I mean she's been dying for 4 seasons; but it was sad all the same.

I thought the notion of giving up all their technology and scattering the people to the ends of the Earth was stupid and completely unrealistic. First, I can see that you would give up or not want to go skipping through space. However, the president / attorney (can't recall his name) stated that they could start their city immediately. Obviously having the technology to do so. Next they are on a planet where they know absolutely nothing about the inhabitants, water, soil, natural disasters, viruses and bacteria, and the list goes on. So being a technologically advance society, you are going to give up all of that for mere chance? Not realistic of human nature. There's also this belief that the native population is going to breed with you. I think this is a big risk... this group of tribal hunters and gathers are likely to see you as a threat to a limited supply. As a small group with no weapons, you are at a much greater risk of being killed by rival tribes. Having studied a bit of US History over the years, European settlers wiped out large portions of the native population purely by infecting them with disases that the natives had no anti-bodies to fight off; why would this be any different? And if you do not breed with the natives, by scattering populations throughout the world, you have just created dna bottlenecks. I thought the whole fact that Lee said "let's give up all our technology and scatter ourselves across the world" and it wasn't question or even thought about was really lame. In fact, it didn't even follow the flow from the entire series (a democracy). If they wanted to do this, it should have been Lee suggesting to give each of the tribes the choice of making it on there on, keeping their technology, etc.

I personally would have loved the end being somewhat more like the creation of Atlantis. To me, this would be the perfect ending of the series. But since they didn't go the route of Atlantis, I did like the fact that Hera became the mDNA Eve.

I have been mostly critical of the final; I think it could have been much better. However, overall I did enjoy it and it was sad to see it end. Like said before, I think it would be a great series to show how a completely foreign population begins to establishing themselves without technology since this was the approach chosen. Ultimately, you can't get enough of Caprica 6 and Athena :salute:

I do have a question though, did anyone catch whether Race Track (I believe that's the right callsign), the team that shot the nucs. into the Cylon base, made it back to Galactica?

David

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I do have a question though, did anyone catch whether Race Track (I believe that's the right callsign), the team that shot the nucs. into the Cylon base, made it back to Galactica?

She was dead, the floating raptor just oriented itself and then was hit by an asteroid which caused her hand to fall on the launch button. Remember they had armed up while still flying in and were the only ones to do so. This was just another example of the "hand of god" at play that's been present through out the series.

I agree with a lot of what you've said, but remember this is an ideal, a morality story and in the end is supposed to inspire us to be more aware of ourselves. Society wanted to turn away from its decadent lifestyle, to a "simpler" life. Even Baltar gave up his ways to settle with the woman he always loved. One of the things that comes out in the flashbacks

One things that I am surprised hasn't been mentioned. The twelve colonies, though Greek in structure, were modeled after the 12 tribes of Israel. And the search for earth is really just a retelling of exodus. Roslyn was the the Lawgiver, Moses, who for testing God was allowed to lead his people to and see the promised land, but never enter it. She makes it to earth, sees it, but dies shortly after arriving, she sees her people to the promised land.

This is one of those stories that you cannot lose yourself in the details as its about the bigger picture. Are there contradictions? Sure are. But that's life isn't it?

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All the comments above about the moralistic and metaphoric implications of the series are well written and on target.

There is one thing that has bothered/puzzled me a lot during this series and that is the great emptiness. Apparently, the only humanoids encountered during their travels where the "protohumans" in the final Earth. It always bothered me that a civilization with FTL travel never ran into any other sentient beings. Obviously, from the perspective of the writers and the series, to have done so would have introduced another ARC to the story, so maybe from the perspective of the purity of the story it would have been a big diversion. Still, such an emptiness was remarkable...

Jose

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My thoughts on the ending of the show:

First: When the Colonials landed on Earth, sure they sent their ships into the sun. But what about at least 1 Raptor that would probably be left on the planet (Adama's, at least,) to ferry the last people from space to Earth. I'm also sure that they planned ahead a bit, to keep the Colonials from getting Earth diseases, and the Earthlings from getting Colonial diseases. I doubt they sent all the asprin and bandages into the sun. My bigger issue is that they didn't leave any real record of the Colonial people. Couldn't they say, write it in a secret language on gold tablets and bury them somewhere in oh, upstate New York....heeeeyyyyyy waitaminute! (PS, the original BSG was heavily based on Mormon beliefs.)

Second: Did anyone else get the vibe that the people "150,000 years later" knew something about Cylons in the past? If you watch the scene again, it really looks like Head-Gaius is reading out of National Geographic when he says "with her Cylon mother and human father." Of course, that would mean that the Earth at the end of the series isn't OUR Earth in 2009.

Third: "You know He doesn't like that name." I like the idea that God is bigger than simple names. "there are more things in Heaven and earth, good Horatio, than is dreamt of in your philosophy." and all that.

Fourth: So they split up the humans across the continents. Sucks to be the folks they unwittingly sent to Antarctica.

Fifth: Looks kinda chilly for Tanzania. Plus, Romo Lampkin wore sunglasses all the time in dimly/artificially lit spaceships. He gets down to Africa, no shades. Wierd.

Sixth: Tears were shed: Laura's thanking Cottle. Sam's goodbye/flying into the sun with the old theme. Adama's goodbye. Kara's goodbye (which was frakking brilliant.)

Seventh: So the Cylon colony got sucked into the black hole, right? That's what I took from all the rocks/debris heading in one direction after Racetrack's missiles hit.

When they showed Hera playing on the hill at the end, I thought she was going to trip over a half-buried Centurion head, cut to the credits.

Edited by RedHeadKevin
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She was dead, the floating raptor just oriented itself and then was hit by an asteroid which caused her hand to fall on the launch button. Remember they had armed up while still flying in and were the only ones to do so. This was just another example of the "hand of god" at play that's been present through out the series.

But I thought there was something like 4-8 Raptors out there that launched as the backup team if anything bad happened. I know Racetrack got nailed by a asteroid that depressureized the cabin, but what happened to the other ones?

If anything the actions of the Raptor nuking the Colony ship brings everything full circle..Cyclons nuking the colonies and then the leftover Colonist's nuking the Cyclon colony ship...

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Odd that no one mentioned the "they aren't done with us yet" trailer for "The Plan" the Cylon attack told from their side. I had one or two tech problems that bugged me: The Colony was HUGE, yet we know excatly where to walk to in a couple of minute. They blew the doors of Galactica's bow, went into an unpresurized area of the colony, then didn't replace the doors on Galactica when the jumped out.

I think the two hours had a definite split between an hour of bang bang blow'm up and the phyisophical ending of the show. Esp the hint that even though the stranded colonials tried to break the ever recurring loop of technology, war, die, rebirth by not starting with a massive high tech city, that it took 150000 years but we or that Earth was on the verge of creating cylon-beings again, thus the cycle goes on.

I liked it on the whole

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But I thought there was something like 4-8 Raptors out there that launched as the backup team if anything bad happened. I know Racetrack got nailed by a asteroid that depressurized the cabin, but what happened to the other ones?

If anything the actions of the Raptor nuking the Colony ship brings everything full circle..Cyclons nuking the colonies and then the leftover Colonist's nuking the Cyclon colony ship...

They were all destroyed or had recovered aboard Galatica. Boomer said as much and there was confirmation when Kara reported the strike team had landed back aboard Galactica during the ceasefire and said they lost 7 raptors.

Another couple of things, the devil is in the details -

Cavil says - I know I'm going to watch you chase your tails across the universe for another 40 years - a reference to the 40 years in the wilderness the Israelites spent during the Exodus

Kara when punching in the jump coordinates - There must be some kind'a way out'a here. - A line from All Along The Watch Tower.

Also, the music has a very middle eastern flavor to it, which I loved.

And you're right, the Cylon colony getting nuked is poetic justice - what goes around comes around

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I agree with a lot of what you've said, but remember this is an ideal, a morality story and in the end is supposed to inspire us to be more aware of ourselves. Society wanted to turn away from its decadent lifestyle, to a "simpler" life.

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought they were dead... I guess I wasn't watching close enough to see that the asteroid caused her to fire the nucs. You are right, ultimately it's TV that's a morality story. To dig into the details is pretty pointless. Great point about Moses too. He was allowed to see the promise land but not enter it.

David

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But I thought there was something like 4-8 Raptors out there that launched as the backup team if anything bad happened. I know Racetrack got nailed by a asteroid that depressureized the cabin, but what happened to the other ones?

At least one of the Raptors made it to the colony, the one carrying Starbuck et al. Presumably any unseen/missing ones were hit by asteroids or enemy fire.

I had one or two tech problems that bugged me: The Colony was HUGE, yet we know excatly where to walk to in a couple of minute.

The Cylons that they brought with them in the assault team knew the layout of the colony. They knew where to go.

They blew the doors of Galactica's bow, went into an unpresurized area of the colony, then didn't replace the doors on Galactica when the jumped out.

They probably left that compartment unpressurized. They were in an airlock when they blew the door, so they just closed the door on the other side, and left the airlock in vacuum. They obviously weren't too worried about causing damage to the Galactica, with the Raptors jumping directly out of the ship like that.

Edited by RedHeadKevin
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The big thing about not encountering other sentient races I believe led back to Edward James Olmos and his provisions for doing the series. He said if anyone ever wrote in a bug eyed monster, alien or other such nonsense, he would faint on camera and they would write Adama out as having died of a heart attack. BSG as we saw it was not about seeking out new life and new civilizations like Trek, it was about coming to terms with Humanity dying and the survivors having to keep the rest of it from going into the abyss. If they had run into other races, then there was a risk of muddling that story. It wasn't necessary to go down that path and I am glad they didn't.

Overall I liked it and on repeated viewings, it continues to hold my interest. It is the type of ending that made me think and that is one of the trademarks of good SF is making one think.

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it was about coming to terms with Humanity dying and the survivors having to keep the rest of it from going into the abyss.

Do not go gentle into that good night,

Old age should burn and rave at close of day;

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,

Because their words had forked no lightning they

Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright

Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,

And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,

Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight

Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,

Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.

Do not go gentle into that good night.

Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

- Dylan Thomas

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As far as the lack of democracy in giving up tech, I thought That they said it was agreeded upon by the masses, which impressed lampkin(sp). Plus it makes it easier to write off not having some archeologist not digging up some 150,000 yr old spaceship ala "The Sphere".

I held off watching part one and downloaded and watched the entire 3 hours in one sitting, didnt have much choice, since I live in the "fatherland" and AFN was 2 weeks behind. Watching it that way was more enjoyable, I didnt like the flashbacks so much but for some instances it gave the characters more depth. The tension between Lee and Kara. The dedication of Laura to governing after giving up on love, only to find another love and giving up on governing. Adama senior realizing after puking his guts out that he belonged in the stars, and sticking it to the man. Tigh giving up on the strippers to follow Adama for a longer stint in the military, I just loved seeing him at the club. Anders seeing his true potential during the interview.

Kara was the harbinger of death for the cylons because she first took pics of the resurection ship in the blackbird, then nuked it. I think she was in on the second attack on the main resurection ship. I thougth that the whole "resurection" of Kara was interesting, but in the Bible Jesus took back his body and the "Saints" also rose from the grave, where we Kara further destroying her old body.

The head characters were more along the line of the Genies in Arabian Nights, moving people along and enjoying the ride. That or they were some naughty angels especially the head 6.

I am sad to see it go but it was a fun ride.

-Dan

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