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Jennings

Mi-8T vs. Mi-8MT/Mi-17 differences

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I've been studying up on Mi-8s recently. I have the Gordon/Komissarov Red Stars book, and thought that was a pretty good reference on details. Boy was I wrong. It's a decent book, but it leaves much detail information sadly lacking. Perhaps more than any other family of helicopters I can think of, the various models of Mi-8 have gazillions of little detail differences when you start really looking at them. I'm currently working on some detailed drawings of them that I hope to be able to post here. I'll try to point out the myriad differences between the two types so everyone can note them when building the various kits of the Mi-8 out there.

I've come to the firm conclusion that Flankerman et al are correct - the Hobby Boss 1/72 kits and the Trumpeter 1/35 kit from which the HB kits are descended are the only Mi-8s worthy of mention. Unfortunately all of them, regardless of what the box says, are Mi-8MTs (aka Mi-17 - export designation). The old KP and the newer Zvezda kits are true early series Mi-8Ts, but both have some serious problems, mostly concerning totally inaccurate windscreens.

I'll try to put together a bit of what's necessary to try to turn the HB kits into true Mi-8Ts if I get a chance over the next few weeks.

J

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Great to hear someome is really working on the subject. I mean many of us know the main differences, but as it seems, there are a lot of other issues as well.

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So check this out. Of the *hundreds* of Mi-8/17 photos I've amassed in recent days, this is the *only* airframe I've found with dual emergency escape hatches on the RH side. Anybody know of any others??

Odd, since it's an otherwise fairly standard Aeroflot Mi-8T. Most a/c in the CCCP-/RA-22xxx series don't even have one, much less two!

J

Mi-8T_22502.jpg

Edited by Jennings

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So check this out. Of the *hundreds* of Mi-8/17 photos I've amassed in recent days, this is the *only* airframe I've found with dual emergency escape hatches on the RH side. Anybody know of any others??

Odd, since it's an otherwise fairly standard Aeroflot Mi-8T. Most a/c in the CCCP-/RA-22xxx series don't even have one, much less two!

J

Mi-8T_22502.jpg

Have a care young Skywalker !!!!!

Delving too deeply into the differences between the myriad variants of the Hip can lead to you being drawn, inexorably, into the Dark Side of the Force ! :)

A Google search for 'RA-22502' reveals that it crashed in the mountains of Altai in November 2004 - so what is it doing being photographed at Moscow's Sheremetyevo in 1995 ??

I have the Russian language publication '50 Years of MVZ named after M. L. Mil' and there is a photo of a Mi-8 with the same two escape hatches..... it is captioned as a 'Mi-8AT'.

Switching to Yefim Gordon's Mi-8 book, the entry for 'Mi-8AT' reads.....

"In the 1980s, the Ulan-Ude aircraft factory began equipping late-production Mi-8Ts with 1,700-shp TV2-117AG turboshafts...... It received the designation Mi-8AT and was operated mostly in temperate climatic zones with even terrain"

There is no mention of two escape hatches - but maybe these Mi-8AT were civil passenger versions but without the square windows normally used.

Maybe they had to comply with civil passenger rules and have two hatches???

Interestingly, the Mi-8AT in the Mil book is coded RA-25755 - it has round windows and two escape hatches to starboard.

25 pages further on, there is a photo of a Mi-171TP cargo passenger variant - with square windows and two hatches to starboard.

It is also coded RA-25755 !!!!! :salute:

Like I say, it doesn't do to dig too deeply into these matters - I have already spent far too much time on this and I find myself getting drawn deeper and deeper into the muddy waters surrounding the Mi-8 :whistle:

At this rate, I might even have to change my signature from Flankerman to Hipman

Ken

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Do not worry, Russians use often their civilian registration numbers not only on the same types, but also on different ones...

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Do not worry, Russians use often their civilian registration numbers not only on the same types, but also on different ones...

Tiger331.......

I have been looking at the external tanks fitted to the Mi-8.

It seems that there are now THREE types......

The original, small, three-strap version - 745 ltr port & 680 ltr stbd.

The 'standard', four-strap version - 1,140 ltr port & 1,030 stbd.

There are now some Mi-8's - including Czech 0835 that visited RIAT Fairford - with even bigger tanks.

You can see it best on the starboard side - the tank is extended in width - but not in depth - and there is a distinct 'step' between the tank and the cabin heater section.

Do you know what the dimensions - and capacity - of these bigger tanks are ???

Ken

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Here are some photos I have uploaded to show what I mean.......

'Standard' four-strap tank......

Tank_01.jpg

Bigger tank.....

Tank_02.jpg

Standard from the side......

Tank_03.jpg

Bigger from the side - note that it is wider, but not deeper...

Tank_04.jpg

Czech Mi-17 with bigger tank at RIAT Fairford....

Tank_05.jpg

Closer view.

Tank_06.jpg

The port side tank is also bigger - but it is not so obvious as there is no 'step'........

Ken

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Some Czech helos like 0835 have tanks with capacity:

985 ltrs starboard

1090 ltrs port

Nowadays only one is fitted with smallest original tanks and it is awaiting general overhaul.

It means, Czech AF currently use four-strips tanks only and with capacity as above on Mi-17s, or with bigger ones on Mi-171Sh.

As I wrote - every Russian helo is a "prototype" and to built correct model, you must have appropriate pictures, at least two - from each side one...

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Here's one for you HIP guys. This is a US Army Aviation Test Board aircraft. I'd love to hear all you can tell me about her, beginning with whether it is an Mi-17 or an Mi-8. I'm an FNG when it comes to Russian helos. Thanks in advance for the expert opinions.

Ray

Mi-8.jpg

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Ray,

That is an Mi-8T, which is an early version of the Hip (longer engine housings, circular exhausts, R/H tail rotor).

Cheers,

Alby

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Ray,

That is an Mi-8T, which is an early version of the Hip (longer engine housings, circular exhausts, R/H tail rotor).

Cheers,

Alby

Thanks Alby! I was thinking Mi-8T but I didn't know WHY!

Ray

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Ray,

Glad to help. I'm still a bit of a newbie on Russians helicopters myself. Thankfully there are experts like Mr. Duffy who have helped to make it easier to differentiate between the versions of the Hip with their contributions to this forum.

Cheers,

Alby

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Ray,

That is an Mi-8T, which is an early version of the Hip (longer engine housings, circular exhausts, R/H tail rotor).

Cheers,

Alby

Plus the early, shorter, 3-strap fuel tanks - with the big 'dished' cutout for the maingear leg.

......and the internal rescue winch.....

See - I am getting anal about Mil Hips !!! :cheers:

Ken

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Plus the early, shorter, 3-strap fuel tanks - with the big 'dished' cutout for the maingear leg.

......and the internal rescue winch.....

See - I am getting anal about Mil Hips !!! :sign_spam:

Ken

Ken and Alby,

Thanks again for the info. I appreciate you both taking time to reply. Does the particular characteristics, like the 3 strap fuel tank, give you any ideas as to a time frame? I was thinking 70's, but there's no info with the photo.

Thanks,

Ray

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The port side tank is also bigger - but it is not so obvious as there is no 'step'........

Ken

That answers the question I was about to ask!!

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Some pics of Slovak Mil-17 Hips currently serving with EUFOR in Bosnia i Herzegovina, which may prove of interest..............

IMG_7550.jpg

IMG_7510.jpg

IMG_7653.jpg

It would be helpful to know which kit is recommended in order to complete one of these helicopters......I think the digital camo is going to be quite a challenge...

Tigerfan112

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interesting Photo that's an VIP Mi-8S

6.jpg

and this is Mi-17PP 432 conversed for fire fighting

normal_gp_01.jpg

Edited by piko1

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Some pics of Slovak Mil-17 Hips currently serving with EUFOR in Bosnia i Herzegovina, which may prove of interest..............

It would be helpful to know which kit is recommended in order to complete one of these helicopters......I think the digital camo is going to be quite a challenge...

Tigerfan112

This could be done relatively easily in fact, with a product called Frisk (dixieartdotcom). It is a self-adhesive backed clear film, it comes in a roll backed with white paper, and is cut out into shapes for airbrush masking. The adhesive is not very aggressive, so it won't pull up paint, but is only good for one shot.

You could make some 'Tetris block" forms to cut around for repeatability.

I tried cutting it free hand for some digi camo, here are results of the test.

IMG_0335.jpg

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I do not know, if it was mentioned here already.

Mi-8 has two boxes of batteries behind right pilot´s door (the same position as on left side)

Mi-8MT/17 has there three horizontal "ribs"

It means - panel lines on KP and Zvezda reflect Mi-8, on HB then Mi-17

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I do not know, if it was mentioned here already.

Mi-8 has two boxes of batteries behind right pilot´s door (the same position as on left side)

Mi-8MT/17 has there three horizontal "ribs"

It means - panel lines on KP and Zvezda reflect Mi-8, on HB then Mi-17

Thanks tiger331 - it was covered in the 'other' Mi-8 thread here...... about half-way down.

Ken

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Can anbody confirm if this is a Mi-8 or a Mi-17? We believe its a Mi-17 but on the airframe Mi-8MTV-1 is written. The crews themselves are calling it a Mil-17 when asked by ATC.

NY0L8639.jpg

NY0L8734.jpg

NY0L8762.jpg

NY0L8776.jpg

Cheers,

Neil.

P.S. Any decent 1/48th kits of a Mi-17 around?

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Can anbody confirm if this is a Mi-8 or a Mi-17? We believe its a Mi-17 but on the airframe Mi-8MTV-1 is written. The crews themselves are calling it a Mil-17 when asked by ATC.

NY0L8639.jpg

NY0L8734.jpg

NY0L8762.jpg

NY0L8776.jpg

Cheers,

Neil.

P.S. Any decent 1/48th kits of a Mi-17 around?

It doesn't really matter Neil - they are one and the same thing.

Mi-17 is simply the export designation of the Mi-8MT.

It used to be that Mi-8MT was used for a helicopter in Russian/Warpac service, with Mi-17 being used for other countries - but things have got a little complicated with Hip's being sold on through third parties.

The QinetiQ Hips are ex-Bulgarian AF Mi-17's - so they should be designated as such - dunno why they have 'Mi-8MTV-1' written on the side.

I have the Hobby Boss Mi-17 kit in my stash ready to 'convert' into that machine..........

Ken

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Cheers Ken. Just been looking at the 1/72nd HobbyBoss kit as I wouldn't mind doing the Boscombe machine myself. It certainly was great seeing it so close on Thursday.

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