Mirage IIIE vs. Mirage V

[fsgray]

My understanding is that the Mirage IIIE was designed to have more air-to-ground capability, with a stretched forward fuselage to accomodate the additional avionics. I also understand that the Mirage V was designed for the attack role. So what's the difference? Can a Mirage IIIE kit be made into a V?

[Stephen]

I'm no expert but I think the nose is different as the V had a simple ranging radar and the IIIE has a multi-mode set.

Stephen

[fsgray]

Stephen it looks like you're correct; I found an article over on Modelling Madness.

[Stephen]

Stephen it looks like you're correct; I found an article over on Modelling Madness.

you're welcome, also some info here

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index....amp;hl=Mirage+V

Stephen

[Jennings]

Actually even Avions Dassault can't definitively answer that question. There are aircraft with all sorts of different configurations that have been called Mirage V's, as well as many that resemble Mirage V's that look more like Mirage IIIEs. They seemed to have played fast and loose with their nomenclature system (sort of like the US military).

J

[caiotfjr]

Actually even Avions Dassault can't definitively answer that question. There are aircraft with all sorts of different configurations that have been called Mirage V's, as well as many that resemble Mirage V's that look more like Mirage IIIEs. They seemed to have played fast and loose with their nomenclature system (sort of like the US military).

J

Not forgeting the Mirage 5SDE, built for Egypt. Acording to AMD it's a Mirage 5 with an IIIE nose and doppler radar.

[Boman]

You can find a good break down of all the various Mirages here;

http://www.vectorsite.net/avmir3.html

Should give you all you need on what the difference is, why and how

[squezzer]

In the Mirage III, V, 50 family, each customer could choose a specific configuration. So even when they leaved the factory, the airframes were different (see the nose of a belgian Mirage V and a french one for instance)

Through the years, the aircrafts were modified and there was no standard modification kit.

So, the general shape of the Mirage V is the Mirage IIIE but you have to check photos of the aircraft you want to build to get an accurate model .

[fsgray]

Great info, thanks everyone!

[Red Dog]

I can't speak for all the V

but here's a list of the differences between the IIIE and the Belgian V BA, beside the cockpit

- nose is different (pointy nose with pitot on the tip for V because no radar)

- large hook fairing on V

- tail is different

- Chaff & flares dispenser under the fuselage, near the hook fairing

- rear engine cover is different

- lots of different scoops and antenna

- weapons config are different of course

Here's a good idea through an picture, the resin parts give a good idea of what needs to be replaced when using the IIIE (FM)

[Raymond]

a fun one Ive been trying to chase down info on, as it seems to be passed over by everyone is: what are the specific differences between a mirage V and nesher? always wondered what the israelis added in!

i made this drawing to compare between some of the variants:

[Laurent]

Mirage 5 not Mirage V. At least for the Mirage 5F. Part of the transcript of the local modifications Commission first meeting Nov 9th, 1972:

The modified aircraft will be called: MIRAGE 5F. Note that number five must be written 5 and not V to avoid confusion with the letter V already used to mean "Vertical" or "Venezuelian"

[Raymond]

so they jumped round from Roman to Arabic numerals in their designations?

Edited April 24, 2009 by Raymond

[Laurent]

so they jumped round from Roman to Arabic numerals in their designations?

Yup. Roman > domestic, Arab > export. Same with Chinese planes.

[Irving Babbitt]

My understanding is that the Mirage IIIE was designed to have more air-to-ground capability, with a stretched forward fuselage to accomodate the additional avionics. I also understand that the Mirage V was designed for the attack role. So what's the difference? Can a Mirage IIIE kit be made into a V?

[Irving Babbitt]

My understanding is that the Mirage IIIE was designed to have more air-to-ground capability, with a stretched forward fuselage to accomodate the additional avionics. I also understand that the Mirage V was designed for the attack role. So what's the difference? Can a Mirage IIIE kit be made into a V?

The Mirage III isn't that difficult to understand, provided you understand three things:

1) The Six Day War made the Mirage IIIC into a giant killer and everyone wanted one.

2) The French were already developing the IIIC in multiple directions.

3) The Israelis had orderd a stripped down version of the IIIC with a wedge nose.

Given the options above, plus the odd-ball avionics fittings that everyone insisted upon, a mind-blowing array of options were produced.

Subsequently, as a model builder, it's always best to work backwards from a photograph when dealing with the Mirage IIIE/V.

I always find it helpful to stop thinking about my project as a Mirage E or V, instead, I starting thinking about it as a "Whatever-the-country-is" Mirage.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Irving Babbitt

[Laurent]

Mirage IIIC: designed as a point defence interceptor. The radar reliability was poor.

Mirage IIIE: designed as a all-weather fighter-bomber. It's goal was to deliver autonomously a nuclear bomb so navigation radars (multimode nose radar + undernose Doppler radar) have been included. The nose was extended behind the cockpit to add room for an INS

Mirage 5J: designed as clear-weather fighter-bomber for Israel. INS replaced by fuel tank. Radars removed and nose extended to put avionics. De Gaulle blocked the delivery and the Armée de l'Air was forced to use aircrafts that weren't designed for Western Europe (which is more cloudy than sunny).

Edited April 24, 2009 by Laurent

[pigsty]

Yup. Roman > domestic, Arab > export. Same with Chinese planes.

Not exactly. All Mirage IIIs had Roman numerals except the 3NG, which no-one bought. The Mirage IV had the Roman numeral, of course. All Mirage 5s had the Arabic numeral regardless of purchaser (the Armee de l'Air was happy to take the Israeli ones as Mirage 5Fs). And then you go to Mirage F (leading to the F1), Mirage G, and Mirage 2000, which is where the designations get really confusing. The Mirage MM would have been an elegant alternative, although they'd also have had the Super Mirage MMMM, which would just be silly.

[Laurent]

Not exactly. All Mirage IIIs had Roman numerals except the 3NG

The 3NG wasn't planned for domestic market AFAIK. Too expensive and conflicting with the Mirage 2000 sales.

the Armee de l'Air was happy to take the Israeli ones as Mirage 5Fs

The Armée de l'Air was forced to use these planes by the government and it wasn't happy about it since the plane lacked sophisticated navigation avionics: they could only fly it in good weather. The plane was used to train pilot on navigation (stopwatch, map, etc) and simulate chemical attacks for the Armée de Terre (ground forces). The plane was replaced by the Mirage F1 CT in 1992 or 1993. If you read French, I suggest you to read the following excellent book

One of the authors was Dassault export sales manager so it's likely that what he wrote is pretty reliable.

Tome 4 is being written (tome 1 is about the IIIC, IIIB and IIIB2; tome 2 is about the IIIE and IIIBE; tome 3 is about the IIIR, IIIRD, 5F and prototypes). It will be about export Mirages. It would be nice if the book could be translated...

Edited April 24, 2009 by Laurent

[pigsty]

Oops .. I meant happy to call them Mirage 5Fs! Whether they liked them is another theing altogether ...

[Laurent]

Oops .. I meant happy to call them Mirage 5Fs! Whether they liked them is another theing altogether ...

Okey dokey