Will2K65 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 I realise the SLAM-ER is a relatively rare weapon to see loaded, but I was wondering how the weapon is carried? I have a VFA-86 Hornet I'd like to build, and the missiles I have from the Academy F-15K kit....its a cool looking weapon and a bit different from the endless JDAM/GBU-12 combos most of my other models are carrying. Two fuel tanks, with a missile on one side and the datalink pod on the other? Or can the aircraft carry two missiles and have the datalink pod on the centreline? Thanks in advance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shion Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 an example. 3 fuel tanks, 1 Slam-ER and a datalink pod. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
magman2 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Net Photo Edited April 30, 2009 by magman2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fuji Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Or can the aircraft carry two missiles and have the datalink pod on the centreline? You can also do that. I've seen it done though I don't have any pix of that load out. The pix shown here seem to be the current way to load the missile system on the jet. I like the two missiles, two tanks and datalink on the centerline as I hate asymmetrical load outs even though they are more common than not. For me its a mater of aesthetics over 100% accuracy, though many times the load outs are valid, just not common. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sv51macross Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 You can also do that. I've seen it done though I don't have any pix of that load out. The pix shown here seem to be the current way to load the missile system on the jet. I like the two missiles, two tanks and datalink on the centerline as I hate asymmetrical load outs even though they are more common than not. For me its a mater of aesthetics over 100% accuracy, though many times the load outs are valid, just not common. Plus it's kinda a waste to use an aircraft to deliver just one piece of ordnance, isn't it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fuji Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Plus it's kinda a waste to use an aircraft to deliver just one piece of ordnance, isn't it? Apparently not the case as is obvious from the images posted here. It all depends on tactics, targets, range and a host of other issues that no one in their right mind would discuss here. Lets just say that if it wasn't a valid load out for combat, they wouldn't train with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedHeadKevin Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 This might be a slightly dumb question: what are the advantages of 1 aircraft, going to deliver 1 missile over firing a cruise missile? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
graves_09 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 This might be a slightly dumb question: what are the advantages of 1 aircraft, going to deliver 1 missile over firing a cruise missile? My armchair aviator, educated guess would be, the same reason they still use bombs and other missiles on the plane vs the cruise missile, planes delivering ordnance means there is a pilot in the loop to make split second decisions, locate the target, and in the case of the SLAM ER to make midcourse corrections while the missile is in flight. see more infor here: http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/missiles/slam/index.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fuji Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 This might be a slightly dumb question: what are the advantages of 1 aircraft, going to deliver 1 missile over firing a cruise missile? SLAM-ER is what they call a man-in-the-loop weapon. Via the datalink pod, the launching aircraft or, even better, another aircraft with a pod, can guide the missile all the way down to impact via the IR sensor in the nose of the missile which sends a signal back. All types of targets are viable and many times you'll see the weapon employed with two aircraft teams where one jet will launch while the other controls and then swap out on the next target. A cruise missile isn't quite as precise, even with GPS. They have a variable circular error of probability depending on many things, but in short meaning that it won't hit the target dead on all the time. Even with JDAM and LGBs, some "hits" will be a near miss. This is a factor if collateral damage is an issue. SLAM-ER can be guided to an exact window, door, building corner, etc and since its a smaller warhead weapon than most cruise missiles, you will have less blast damage to surrounding buildings say if the target is in an urban environment. Giving one the option to strike with this level of accuracy is a major reason you probably see load outs like the one above. In this day & age, you see people put extreme high value targets in populated areas. To make sure you take out that target and nothing else, its worth the expense of sending one or two airplanes carrying two missiles (one as a back up) to ensure that mission is completed as effectively as possible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sig Saur & Son Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 (edited) Photo-Copyright David F. Brown Edited May 1, 2009 by Sig Saur & Son Quote Link to post Share on other sites
strikeeagle801 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Beautiful picture Dave! Aaron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hoops Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Lets just say that if it wasn't a valid load out for combat, they wouldn't train with it. Perhaps, but I would also add that those pictures are all of CATMs. If a pilot is going out to get a weapons qual for the SLAM-ER, it doesn't make any sense to go out with more than one CATM. I'm sure that there aren't a whole lot of CATMs floating around either, so they're probably in high demand within the wing as well. I'm sure it is a valid combat load, but I don't think that's why we're seeing them in most of these pictures. -Hoops Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Will2K65 Posted May 1, 2009 Author Share Posted May 1, 2009 Thanks for the posts folks, most useful, and those are photos I haven't seen before :) Three wet with 1 missile seems to be the way I'll go, though I agree with Fuji that symmetrical loadouts are much better looking - the goofy gas configuration seen on the Hornets is just ugly as hell! Assymetric weapons outboard of matched fuel tanks tends to look a bit better. Anyone from the Hornet community care to comment on the 2 missiles and centreline loadout? More of an airshow crowd pleaser or has it ever been used 'for real'? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fuji Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Perhaps, but I would also add that those pictures are all of CATMs. If a pilot is going out to get a weapons qual for the SLAM-ER, it doesn't make any sense to go out with more than one CATM. I'm sure that there aren't a whole lot of CATMs floating around either, so they're probably in high demand within the wing as well. I'm sure it is a valid combat load, but I don't think that's why we're seeing them in most of these pictures.-Hoops Actually, I've been seeing a lot of multiple CATM load outs recently. Unfortunately I can't talk about them in specifics and since I can't talk about them, there aren't any pictures to illustrate the point. Catch 22. But trust me, the multi-CATM loadouts are common in some sense, but they are specialized and probably not what Joe Schmoe public will see all to often. Thanks for the posts folks, most useful, and those are photos I haven't seen before :)Three wet with 1 missile seems to be the way I'll go, though I agree with Fuji that symmetrical loadouts are much better looking - the goofy gas configuration seen on the Hornets is just ugly as hell! Assymetric weapons outboard of matched fuel tanks tends to look a bit better. Anyone from the Hornet community care to comment on the 2 missiles and centreline loadout? More of an airshow crowd pleaser or has it ever been used 'for real'? I've seen it a couple of times in training exercises. But its not one I have pics of to good effect. As an aside, the military is getting squirrelly about what is documented on bases these days for some reason or another, but don't do anything about the spotters lined up with 400mm and 500mm lenses outside the base documenting everything coming in and out of the airspace. Crazy. As if a terrorist agent is going to get access to the ramp but the spotters outside are just good old fashioned harmless aficionados. Anyway. As "for real" its a real and valid loadout but the missile has not been used in anger yet. Some prototype SLAMs were used during Desert Storm but SLAM-ER has not been used operationally yet.... The key word being YET. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Boman Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Fuji, The Hase 1/48 Weapons set D has an AGD84E Slam missile. How would an F/A-18C carry these? And do they too require an guidance pod to launch and control properly? I have never seen pictures of any fighter carrying this weapon, hence the Q TIA Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fuji Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Fuji, The Hase 1/48 Weapons set D has an AGD84E Slam missile. How would an F/A-18C carry these? And do they too require an guidance pod to launch and control properly? I have never seen pictures of any fighter carrying this weapon, hence the Q TIA Same guidance pod for SLAM-ER and SLAM. The AWW-13 pod. Only available in the Academy F-15K Strike Eagle kit. Pix to follow as I have to scan them in, but in general same load outs we've discussed here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leatherneck224 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Actually, I've been seeing a lot of multiple CATM load outs recently. Unfortunately I can't talk about them in specifics and since I can't talk about them, there aren't any pictures to illustrate the point. Catch 22. But trust me, the multi-CATM loadouts are common in some sense, but they are specialized and probably not what Joe Schmoe public will see all to often.I've seen it a couple of times in training exercises. But its not one I have pics of to good effect. As an aside, the military is getting squirrelly about what is documented on bases these days for some reason or another, but don't do anything about the spotters lined up with 400mm and 500mm lenses outside the base documenting everything coming in and out of the airspace. Crazy. As if a terrorist agent is going to get access to the ramp but the spotters outside are just good old fashioned harmless aficionados. Anyway. As "for real" its a real and valid loadout but the missile has not been used in anger yet. Some prototype SLAMs were used during Desert Storm but SLAM-ER has not been used operationally yet.... The key word being YET. i beg to differ, VMFA-323 and VFA-113 launched one a piece during the OIF 1. i do not have any details on the 113 launch but in the early hours of March 22nd 2003 Capt Nate Miller in Snake 211 BuNo 164733 call-sign Stew 16 successfully targeted an LP-23 radar at Sadam International Airport with an AGM-84H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fuji Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 i beg to differ, VMFA-323 and VFA-113 launched one a piece during the OIF 1. i do not have any details on the 113 launch but in the early hours of March 22nd 2003 Capt Nate Miller in Snake 211 BuNo 164733 call-sign Stew 16 successfully targeted an LP-23 radar at Sadam International Airport with an AGM-84H. I stand corrected - The Marines used it. I usually follow the Naval Aviation side of things. Pretty surprised the Corps got to use it and not the Navy considering the Marines are usually more concerned with CAS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leatherneck224 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 323 was attached to CVW-2 and as i said the Stingers also fired one in OIF. so both the Navy and Marine have employed it. also of note 323 was chosen to plan a strike on Al Asad or Balad with it prior to OIF for OSW but the strike never took place due to the lack of Intel on the two sites. this was one of the main reasons 323 was chosen for the SIAP strike. I may also be able to nail down Capt Miller's load out for the mission. not promising any thing though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Collin Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Anyway. As "for real" its a real and valid loadout but the missile has not been used in anger yet. Some prototype SLAMs were used during Desert Storm but SLAM-ER has not been used operationally yet.... The key word being YET. I see that has been corrected.....I believe a total of 3 were used over the course of OIF. SLAM-ER is a scalpel in the toolbox. Typically you will find a warshot/CATM and a pod on each aircraft. Each backing up the other. Two missiles per plane...remember these are expensive assets. If for some reason you don't release them... you can't take them back to the boat because of recover issues. Cheers Atis Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sv51macross Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I see that has been corrected.....I believe a total of 3 were used over the course of OIF.SLAM-ER is a scalpel in the toolbox. Typically you will find a warshot/CATM and a pod on each aircraft. Each backing up the other. Two missiles per plane...remember these are expensive assets. If for some reason you don't release them... you can't take them back to the boat because of recover issues. Cheers Atis They're too delicate to take trapping? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
illithid00 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 They're too delicate to take trapping? I'm gonna guess it's a weight issue. The SLAM-ER is a pretty big missile. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sv51macross Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I'm gonna guess it's a weight issue. The SLAM-ER is a pretty big missile. But wouldn't it be better than, if you cannot use the missile, to drop a fuel tank (though after going out and back, they'd probably be at least partially drained anyway) or two? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reddog Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 It's not just overall aircraft weight but the weight on the station, can the station take that kind of load? Reddog :lol: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
magman2 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Net Photo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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