SLAM-ER and the F/A-18

[Boman]

Guys

This just doesn't make sence - why would the Hornet be able to land with a dummy SLAM or SLAM-ER but not a live one?

The dummy normally weights the same as the real missile, but don't carry the motor or explosives - so why trap with a dummy but not a live missile. Specially if they are so costly?

[Collin]

Guys

This just doesn't make sence - why would the Hornet be able to land with a dummy SLAM or SLAM-ER but not a live one?

The dummy normally weights the same as the real missile, but don't carry the motor or explosives - so why trap with a dummy but not a live missile. Specially if they are so costly?

A CATM-ER and a full up round -ER are pretty darn close in weight and mass distro properties.

Shore based you may see two weapons. From the boat, chances are highly unlikely you will due to bring back/aboard issues.

r/

Atis

[Reddog]

After checking the books I can't find where it says that you can't recovery with a SLAM-ER.

Reddog

[Collin]

After checking the books I can't find where it says that you can't recovery with a SLAM-ER.

Reddog :o

Now I am confused, not hard to do. Dog, can you CVN recover with two CATM or SLAM-ER by the book?

With two of those huge drag count unreleased -ER's on a Charlie wing... better have a 5-wet tanker waiting in the stack.

Won't be at the May meeting, so we can shoot the bull about it at the June meeting. Still haven't found the Heavenly Hues stuff yet.

Atis

Edited May 2, 2009 by Collin

[Reddog]

Now I am confused, not hard to do. Dog, can you CVN recover with two CATM or SLAM-ER by the book?

With two of those huge drag count unreleased -ER's on a Charlie wing... better have a 5-wet tanker waiting in the stack.

Won't be at the May meeting, so we can shoot the bull about it at the June meeting. Still haven't found the Heavenly Hues stuff yet.

Atis

If I'm reading the book right, yes, you can recover with up to four of them. CV NATOP's says you can bring them back also.

Having enough gas to make it to the ramp is another story. Remember, what's an F-18 famous for fighting for............a tanker at the end of the cat stroke. :o

Reddog

BTW, SWMBO and I stopped by Micheals the weekend after the meeting and looked for that Heavenly Hues, searched the store but no joy.

Edited May 2, 2009 by Reddog

[SebastianP]

I'm going to add a couple of cents here, take or leave as you please:

There are any number of logical reasons for one missile per airframe, if you think about it. First off is the range issue - trading out a drop tank for another missile reduces its effective range by a fair bit, meaning more refuellings will be needed for a given mission; I don't know the specific math, but I think there's a break-even point where you're going to end up using more refuellers for a two-missile aircraft than for two one-missile aircraft. Second, there's the workload issue. I don't know if the datalink pod can handle more than one missile at a time, but even if it can, the pilot would have to keep track of *two* optically guided missiles while flying the plane in hostile airspace. Remember, carrier hornets are all single-seaters (legacy ones, that is), and there's no WSO in the back to handle that chore.

And if the pod can't handle two missiles, then the launching aircraft will have to be loitering over the launch point until the first missile hits (which takes a while, given the range of these things), before launching the next one. That not only eats up precious fuel, but leaves you hanging out there for enemy SAM's and fighters to take pot shots at for much longer.

I think I read somewhere that one of the tactics used for these things echoes those of the first LGBs - one aircraft carries the missile, the other carries the pod. After the missile is launched, the launching aircraft sticks around to cover his buddy while he guides the missile in. Hanging opposite the SLAM-ER or targeting pod would be a defensive missile appropriate to the local threats - either a HARM or an AMRAAM, most likely. Don't quote me on that though, because I can't for the life of me remember where I saw this tidbit.

While we're on the topic though, I've got a pair of relatively crude SLAM-ERs courtesy of Italeri's Super Hornet in 1/72, and I've been thinking about where I could use them and how. Since no one does the pod in that scale that I'm aware of, I'm thinking I might be able to use a drop tank in 1/144 or something like that instead. Anyone have any ideas on what kind of tank might be suitable? I'm thinking Phantom tanks may be the right size. or at least close enough...

Cheers,

SP

[Collin]

, I've got a pair of relatively crude SLAM-ERs courtesy of Italeri's Super Hornet in 1/72, and I've been thinking about where I could use them and how.

Cheers,

SP

1/72 scale S-3B with 2 x SLAM-ER on W5 and W6.

A tested, cool looking, not really useful loadout that is perfect for the War Hoover (actually a SLAM-ER with an IR/Laser Maverick would be cooler).

r/

Atis

[SebastianP]

Cool. Another reason to get one of those, then. Now I just wish there were any available locally, other than the "this pricetag has *how* many digits?!?" Hasegawa special edition.

Actually, what I've been thinking of is adding them to an A-6E I've got sitting around waiting for me to finish it, as a bit of a "what if they'd kept the Intruders rather than axing both them and their replacement?", or to my P-3 that I'm procrastinating over which scheme to build it as. (I've actually got both the Revell box with US/German/Dutch decals, and a JMSDF special edition with extra resin bits, but one of them has a pair of broken props. Bummer.)

Cheers,

SP

[garthk]

BTW, SWMBO and I stopped by Micheals the weekend after the meeting and looked for that Heavenly Hues, searched the store but no joy.

I think Heavenly Hues has been oop for several years now. I picked up some at a Michaels back in 2001 or 2002 and haven't seen it since. I checked with one of the cashiers and they no longer had it in inventory or listed in their distributor's catalog.

Shame, because it really is great for quick/easy weathering.

[Fuji]

(actually a SLAM-ER with an IR/Laser Maverick would be cooler).

That's the loadout for my Diamondcutters S-3B. My Maulers jet will have a LANTIRN and IR/Laser Mav

[MarkW]

I am wondering why the E/Fs aren't qual'd for the SLAM-ER yet--future of NAVAIR, all that blah blah. Seems kinda odd that such a spiffy missile that might be useful in the urban environment didn't see more action when we were working urban air support more. I suppose they would be fairly superfluous in Afghanistan. Fairly certain it won't be a JSF loadout, so who's left to carry these things in 10 years?

[Fuji]

I am wondering why the E/Fs aren't qual'd for the SLAM-ER yet--future of NAVAIR, all that blah blah. Seems kinda odd that such a spiffy missile that might be useful in the urban environment didn't see more action when we were working urban air support more. I suppose they would be fairly superfluous in Afghanistan. Fairly certain it won't be a JSF loadout, so who's left to carry these things in 10 years?

Vikings ... Oh wait

[Hoops]

I am wondering why the E/Fs aren't qual'd for the SLAM-ER yet--future of NAVAIR, all that blah blah. Seems kinda odd that such a spiffy missile that might be useful in the urban environment didn't see more action when we were working urban air support more. I suppose they would be fairly superfluous in Afghanistan. Fairly certain it won't be a JSF loadout, so who's left to carry these things in 10 years?

P-3s, those things will never die.

[Collin]

I am wondering why the E/Fs aren't qual'd for the SLAM-ER yet--future of NAVAIR, all that blah blah. Seems kinda odd that such a spiffy missile that might be useful in the urban environment didn't see more action when we were working urban air support more. I suppose they would be fairly superfluous in Afghanistan. Fairly certain it won't be a JSF loadout, so who's left to carry these things in 10 years?

Funding and need....that about sums up the first part of your question.

Second part. Laser Maverick, guns, and GBU-12/JDAM series are your urban weapons of choice from fast movers (and A-10's).

So impressed is the USAF with LMAV, they are sending back to the factory their older model Mavericks and converting them over to -65E. Smart and cost effective. I am interested to see how the RAF Brimstone converted from MMW seekers to Laser will work out, that is a recent addition to the Tornado bag of tricks.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Raythe...Missiles-05397/

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/...y-with-new.html

r/

Atis

[MarkW]

Makes sense--GBU-12s require about as much effort, are WAAAAAYYYY cheaper, and probably near same CEP. Plus, you can carry a metric buttload of 'em, relatively speaking. SLAM-ER only truly makes sense in an anti-access environment, where you'd get pasted if you tried to drive in too deep.

[Hoops]

I am wondering why the E/Fs aren't qual'd for the SLAM-ER yet--future of NAVAIR, all that blah blah. Seems kinda odd that such a spiffy missile that might be useful in the urban environment didn't see more action when we were working urban air support more. I suppose they would be fairly superfluous in Afghanistan. Fairly certain it won't be a JSF loadout, so who's left to carry these things in 10 years?

Doctrinally speaking, the SLAM-ER is intended by the Navy as an Anti-Ship weapon (at least for some platforms anyway). It affords the opportunity for much more discretionary targeting than, for example, a Harpoon.

-Hoops

[Fuji]

Doctrinally speaking, the SLAM-ER is intended by the Navy as an Anti-Ship weapon (at least for some platforms anyway). It affords the opportunity for much more discretionary targeting than, for example, a Harpoon.

-Hoops

Ehh not so much no. The name says it all - Stand-off Land Attack Missile - Expanded Response. SLAM-ER. I have all the training CDs on the system (given to me by CSCWL when working on an article on it) and about 75% of it deals with attacking land targets. Anti-shipping is covered but that's pretty much a given in a Sea Control platform.

Also remember that SLAM & SLAM-ER came about during a time when the Navy was shifting focus from going head to head with the Soviet Navy in Blue Water ops to Littoral Warfare and projecting power "From The Sea."

Edited May 8, 2009 by Fuji

[Collin]

Ehh not so much no. The name says it all - Stand-off Land Attack Missile - Expanded Response. SLAM-ER. I have all the training CDs on the system (given to me by CSCWL when working on an article on it) and about 75% of it deals with attacking land targets. Anti-shipping is covered but that's pretty much a given in a Sea Control platform.

Also remember that SLAM & SLAM-ER came about during a time when the Navy was shifting focus from going head to head with the Soviet Navy in Blue Water ops to Littoral Warfare and projecting power "From The Sea."

SLAM-ER doesn't care what you throw it at...ship, building, aircraft on a ramp...the list goes on and on and on.....

I remember writing and working on those CD's when I was testing SLAM-ER on the S-3B. I hope they spell checked it for me.

r/

Atis

[Fuji]

I remember writing and working on those CD's when I was testing SLAM-ER on the S-3B. I hope they spell checked it for me.

Well THAT explains a lot!

Very true - SLAM-ER is a very good swiss army knife type weapon system. One of those that's very specialized but adept for all kinds of targets.

[Hoops]

Ehh not so much no. The name says it all - Stand-off Land Attack Missile - Expanded Response. SLAM-ER. I have all the training CDs on the system (given to me by CSCWL when working on an article on it) and about 75% of it deals with attacking land targets. Anti-shipping is covered but that's pretty much a given in a Sea Control platform.

Also remember that SLAM & SLAM-ER came about during a time when the Navy was shifting focus from going head to head with the Soviet Navy in Blue Water ops to Littoral Warfare and projecting power "From The Sea."

Fuji and I PMed back and forth a bit on this one, I was speaking specifically about the P-3 as a launch platform above. Just to clear up any confusion on the part of the other readers here, doctrinally speaking the SLAM-ER is a ASuW only weapon for maritime patrol.

Cheers,

Hoops

[Collin]

Fuji and I PMed back and forth a bit on this one, I was speaking specifically about the P-3 as a launch platform above. Just to clear up any confusion on the part of the other readers here, doctrinally speaking the SLAM-ER is a ASuW only weapon for maritime patrol.

Cheers,

Hoops

See my PM.

r/

Atis

[Fuji]

See my PM.

r/

Atis

If is says Fuji is an a-hole it's all true!!!

Yes I've been drinking

Edited May 9, 2009 by Fuji