Sabre fuselages in 1/72

[Snowbird3a]

Folks, during the initial attempts to convert my Hobbycraft Sabre into a F86A, I thought I might lay out a few different fuselages for comparison. I don't know if anyone has done so before or what could be gained from it but here, from bottom to top is: Hobbycraft, Fujimi, Heller, Matchbox, and at the top is my early start at converting the Hobbycraft fuselage to F86A shape.

When Hobbycraft copied the Fujimi kit, they foolishly copied the horribly square speed brake shape as well. I like the Heller's overall shape and speedbrake wells but the Fujimi and Hobbycraft's fine engraved lines are very nice. I suppose properly drooped and deployed speedbrakes could hide the wrong shape of the wells.

The old Frog/Hasegawa kit is not there as I refuse to have one in my stash, after building one as a teenager(many years ago).

Again, I don't knkow if this will solve anything for anybody, I was just curious myself and thought a comparison shot might come in handy someday.

Cheers, Tony, Comox, BC

[Laurent]

There seems to be dispersion between the fin height and chord of the various kits. Is it because different versions are depicted ?

[airjiml2]

Yea I've always thought the Fujimi and HC kits are a little fat and square both before and aft the wing. Almost like a cross between a F-86F and a F-86H. I also think the tail is a little too tall. I've always been a fan of the Heller kit.

Jim

[gmat]

Only the Matchbox kit has a triangular cross section. I felt that it was closest to the actual aircraft. But it has the most basic detail.

Best wishes,

Grant

[Snowbird3a]

Now, here's the wings all laid out for inspection. The first thing I noticed was the excessive sweep of the Heller wing.

Of course I started my conversion before Scobiedoproductions announced their resin replacement wings--I have a couple on order.

Thoughts.......comments.......

I still have to trim and sand the leading edge of the lower wing of my conversion. The result almost matches the Matchbox F86A wing.....so the conversion forges ahead. I have the early V windshield and a couple of resin copies, ready for this project.

Tony, Comox, BC

[AndrewS]

Nice work on your conversion Tony, and many thanks for the thread. I find these comparisons extremely useful and learn a lot about the various kits and the original aircraft. How did you achieve the shorter tailplane fairing on the Hobbycraft fuselage? Would it be possible to add the Scobiedo wings when they arrive?

Looking forward to more pics of your progress.

Cheers,

Andrew.

[Laurent]

Only the Matchbox kit has a triangular cross section. I felt that it was closest to the actual aircraft. But it has the most basic detail.

Isn't the windscreen weird however ? The side windows look weird to me. Semi rectangular.

[Snowbird3a]

Andrew, the fairing was just marked out with a sharpie then a nice little cordless Dremel and rotary stone ground away what was not supposed to be there. The inside of the fuselage gets thin there, so it is backed up with some scrap plastic and super glue.

The Matchbox rendition of the F86A windshield is hopeless-- in fact, if this conversion works, I don't see the need for any part of the Matchbox kit.

The Scobie wings, when they arrive, will go to another Sabre 2 idea I have--RCAF Fireballs. They are designed for the Fujimi/Hobbycraft/Academy kits. I still have some Cutting Edge V-windshields(and some home-made copies), for there is always another Sabre idea around the corner eg. Turkish Stars.

Tony

Nice work on your conversion Tony, and many thanks for the thread. I find these comparisons extremely useful and learn a lot about the various kits and the original aircraft. How did you achieve the shorter tailplane fairing on the Hobbycraft fuselage? Would it be possible to add the Scobiedo wings when they arrive?

Looking forward to more pics of your progress.

Cheers,

Andrew.

[Irving Babbitt]

There seems to be dispersion between the fin height and chord of the various kits. Is it because different versions are depicted ?

Great thread, Snowbird! I've never laid them out like that and the differences are telling. Thank you for taking the time to do so.

Laurent, the back ends of an A vs. an E Sabre are very different affairs. You're often instructed to look at the windshield or perhaps the radar-less nose cone to identify an A, but the reliable give away is at the aft end of the airframe. The E introduced a "flying tail" vs. the A's conventional stabilizer plus elevator arrangement. Think F-16 vs. Spitfire. Moving the entire tail surface required stronger hydraulicsc. As a consequence, the E sprouted the "shoulders" above the horizontal stabs that you see in the photos above. Subsequently, the fin did change in chord (not sure about height) to help maintain balance issues, but these changes occured in unison with powerplant changes and myraid other changes. The key point is this: the A had a much more slender, "dainty" in comparison to the E/F, looking aft end and fin.

Take this with a grain of salt, as I'm away from my books at the moment. But I belive I have the key details correct.

I'll try to work up some pictures for you, it'll help fight off the jet lag.

Here's an A, complete with the V front glass, notice how neat the back end is: F-86A

Here's one with the flying tail, from a different angle, but it highlights the "shoulders" that grew below the fin to accomodate the flying tail: F-86? (denoted it as a ? variant because once they grow those shoulders it's anyone's guess what it really is unless you have a book handy.)

Edited May 8, 2009 by Irving Babbitt

[madmike]

Excellent! Another pinned topic

MikeJ

[RAGATIGER]

Hi there

Please don't forget the Avon Sabres

Best modeling to you all

Armando

[BILL SN3]

Now, here's the wings all laid out for inspection. The first thing I noticed was the excessive sweep of the Heller wing.

Of course I started my conversion before Scobiedoproductions announced their resin replacement wings--I have a couple on order.

Thoughts.......comments.......

I still have to trim and sand the leading edge of the lower wing of my conversion. The result almost matches the Matchbox F86A wing.....so the conversion forges ahead. I have the early V windshield and a couple of resin copies, ready for this project.

Tony, Comox, BC

Tony Sorry I should have worked faster on my wing kit and saved you all this work! The finished model looks great.

Bill for Scobiedoproductions

[Snowbird3a]

Tony Sorry I should have worked faster on my wing kit and saved you all this work! The finished model looks great.

Bill for Scobiedoproductions

Bill, Wings arrived on Friday, however it was a camping weekend and I have just opened the package now. They look great, thanks a bunch and I hope I can get cracking on a few projects with them. I saw a review on MM by Tom Cleaver using your wings and they do look the part !!!

Tony

[BILL SN3]

Tony I am going to hold you to that. Looking for some neat models .

Bill.

[Snowbird3a]

Hi there

Please don't forget the Avon Sabres

Best modeling to you all

Armando

My sincerest apologies to the many fans of the Avon Sabre. A complete oversight on my part. Another apology in advance to the fans of the F86H, as I don't have one in my stash to compare with and photograph. My conversion attempt is a Hobbycraft Sabre 6 which was a copy of the Fujimi, with a few little changes. I am told the Academy is another copy of the Hobbbycraft kit. I don't have one in my collection to display here.

Here is another comparison of the various Sabre fuselages

And then a pic of the Scobie narrow chord wing with a Matchbox wing and my partial conversion(unfinished). I have just laid a strip of plastic down the pronounced step in the slat well and will be sanding down the leading edges and the slat wells next

Tony

[RCAFFAN]

Just to confirm, the Academy and Hobbycraft are the same molds (original molds done in Korea and run for both companies).....

Cheers

Bruce

[Jonathan Mock]

What wing does the Heller kit depict? Is it the 39ft slatted 6/3?

[Dave Fleming]

What wing does the Heller kit depict? Is it the 39ft slatted 6/3?

Yes, in theory it is the one fitted to Canadair mk 6s

[old_Tonto]

So if I want to build a South African Sabre in 1/72 should I choose the Heller kit?

Or would you recommend something else?

[Snowbird3a]

So if I want to build a South African Sabre in 1/72 should I choose the Heller kit?

Or would you recommend something else?

You could choose the Hobbycraft Sabre 6 kit if you wish--it has separate slats--the slats on the Heller kit are molded closed.

Tony

[Jonathan Mock]

Yes, in theory it is the one fitted to Canadair mk 6s

Aha! Danke herr Fleming!

[felixdk]

I recently came across this thread and am wondering if this project is progressing. An F-86A in any scale would be great and though an F-86A kit or conversion set would be nice, I guess that the changes aren't outrageously difficult. There are a couple of differences that haven't been mentioned though. The layout of the navigation and position lights on the tail are totally different from the other Sabre versions, being vertically stacked rather than placed horizontally. I couldn't find any accurate A model drawings while doing research for some artwork, so I ended up creating line drawings from photos. This is the tail area:

Another important point is that the F-86A has a trim tab on the port aileron; it appears on none of the other production Sabres.

That's the F-86A in the Udvar-Hazy Smithsonian Air Museum. There are larger photos of it in this album Udvar-Hazy

There are various differences in the panels that can be seen in photos. Here's some side views that show the A fuselage panel layout

I also happened to buy an old Strombecker solid wooden kit of the F-86 from the 50s for nostalgia's sake (built several of these when I was a kid) and it appears to be an F-86A in 1/72 scale. The canopy, although very thick plastic, is not bad and has the vee windscreen. It's thick enough that it might be a good male mold for vacuforming windscreens for 1/72 As and Es.

[Snowbird3a]

This is the latest efforts on this F86A. I will take this build now to the In-progress area of the forums after this, however, cause that where it should reside.

I did sort of adjust the rear nav light mounting above the jet pipe to reflect the vertical arrangement of the lights. I recently re-found the July 2000 article from FineScale Modeller where Paul Boyer converts the Fujimi F86 into a F86A. He neglected to change the tail lights to vertical or the wingtip lights to the corner style

My wingtip nav lights have been changed to the corner style with clear sprue drilled from the back side, vents added to the fuselage sides. I have tried to represent the earlier style of gunsight fitted to A model Sabres. In the photos I have of a 'Silver Sabre' on the ground, the speedbrakes are closed, flaps are down and the landing gear doors are closed. I have tried to follow in that vein. Gun ports will be the rectangular flush panels, I will do that with painted decal strips.

I have had moderate success in making vacuform Vee-shaped windscreens, however, I may try Paul Boyer's method of glueing folded clear plastic to the kit windshield and blending it in.

Cheers, Tony

[felixdk]

Tony,

Glad to see that it's progressing and look forward to the result. I lost some of the vector line drawings in a hard drive failure, but still have most of them and various high-rez photos of the Udvar-Hazy F-86A, so if they'd be of any help to you, let me know.

Don

[Snowbird3a]

I recently bought a PM Sabre 2 (F86E)--horrible little kit, for the Turkish White Swans decals. No worries, I knew what I was getting beforehand. I had one of these horrid little kits years ago and dumped it at a swap meet later on.

Here is a comparison shot of the Matchbox F86A aft section in front, the PM Sabre aft fuselage next, and my homemade ex-hobbycraft Sabre6/F86A fuselage. Work on my Sabre is painfully slow these days

The PM kit is a brutal POS that is not even good enough for spare parts--it makes the Matchbox offering almost passable. Looks like they tried to pass it off as an F86A, but still couldn't quite get it right. An early aft fuselage mated with a 6-3 wing in the box

Tony